can mods say why they lock a thread?

[spinedoc77]

It's already been said, but when we close a thread because it's going nowhere, that means that 1) the same arguments are going in circles with no new direction to the discussion, things are devolving into insults and bickering, and there have been multiple reports of genuine problems. The thread has simply taken a disproportionate amount of moderator time at the expense of other threads and forum issues needing attention.

How long did it take you to write that paragraph? Is there any reason it could not be written in a closed thread?

 

[balamw]

How long did it take you to write that paragraph? Is there any reason it could not be written in a closed thread?

MOD NOTE: Perhaps you missed the "at the expense of other threads and forum issues." We usually multitask heavily when modding.

10 seconds can be a long time if you are dealing with a wall of open reports.

B

 

[spinedoc77]

MOD NOTE: Perhaps you missed the "at the expense of other threads and forum issues." We usually multitask heavily when modding.

10 seconds can be a long time if you are dealing with a wall of open reports.

B

I didn't miss it, it's just my suggestion as a humble forum member and former mod of a site much larger than this one.

Everything is subjective of course. For example, this thread is a beauty, every other post is argumentative, belittling and adding little or nothing to the thread, yet it has not "run its course". https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...droid-phone-cant-edit-and-vice-versa.1234386/ IMO I didn't see anything worse in the thread I'm asking about, but once again I'm not privy to what was deleted. Although as a thread I refreshed a lot I had a good idea of the good and bad.

In any event I don't mean for this to get out of hand. My intention was to inquire as to the official policy of commenting on a closed thread. It's a privately owned forum where the owners can do anything they want.

 

[S.B.G]

I've seen a few threads in in wasteland that are not locked but a vast majority are.

For informational purposes, our practice is to lock a thread and move it to Wasteland, but sometimes we forget to lock them. The Wasteland forum is set by default to not allow posts to be made in a thread regardless of whether a thread is locked or not.

 

[lowendlinux]

I agree about the community part, but if you look on the forums 99% of responses are just people airing their opinion and nothing more. If we took out all the opinions there literally would be NO forum here. I also agree about transparency, to not take the 10 seconds to write an explanation is definitely goofy. Saying "this thread has run its course" is goofy as well. I felt frustration when I tuned into a thread I was following closely and didn't see any issues with , unless the mods really are that quick to delete posts, and found it was closed. I'm not saying it's a regular occurrence, but by the same token it's not the first time I've seen it happen and my intention was to ask about the official policy. The mods relayed the official policy so my question was answered.

Here's the thing I don't like pointing fingers and telling others they ought to change the way they work if we're unwilling to do the same. Many of the threads in the alternatives section turn into a showcase of stupid when one or two of the religious iOS users show up. If we can stop that part then we can ask for something back from the mods and admins. I'm up for passionate even heated debate it happens here in other sections like the MP section but they don't devolve there like they do in the alternatives section. That's why I brought up having a section for dumb and the mental masturbation if the OP starts that way is can be moved immediately or if the devolves it can be moved and as long as everyone is following the folks can go there and talk at each other all day with pretty graphs about sales and profit or the semantical debates about what is innovation. That would free the alternatives section to be about alternatives and weighing them against each other and how to integrate them into our ecosystems or even how to best convert. I don't much care for the section because all the threads seem to involve semantics or rulers, but if I don't go I miss things like your recommendation of pushbullet.

 

[I7guy]

Here's the thing I don't like pointing fingers and telling others they ought to change the way they work if we're unwilling to do the same. Many of the threads in the alternatives section turn into a showcase of stupid when one or two of the religious iOS users show up. If we can stop that part then we can ask for something back from the mods and admins. I'm up for passionate even heated debate it happens here in other sections like the MP section but they don't devolve there like they do in the alternatives section. That's why I brought up having a section for dumb and the mental masturbation if the OP starts that way is can be moved immediately or if the devolves it can be moved and as long as everyone is following the folks can go there and talk at each other all day with pretty graphs about sales and profit or the semantical debates about what is innovation. That would free the alternatives section to be about alternatives and weighing them against each other and how to integrate them into our ecosystems or even how to best convert. I don't much care for the section because all the threads seem to involve semantics or rulers, but if I don't go I miss things like your recommendation of pushbullet.

I'm for debate also, but talk about the topic and not the poster. And ignore posts that you feel aren't worth the response. And, there are fanatics on both sides of the fence.
Some of the topics specifically in that forum invite the passion. And it happens even without "religious iOS users" showing up.

 

[lowendlinux]

I'm for debate also, but talk about the topic and not the poster. And ignore posts that you feel aren't worth the response. And, there are fanatics on both sides of the fence.
Some of the topics specifically in that forum invite the passion. And it happens even without "religious iOS users" showing up.

Passion is one thing silliness is another.

 

[I7guy]

Passion is one thing silliness is another.

At the ends of the spectrum and in between passion and silliness aren't against the rules and not the reason threads get locked.

 

[annk]

How long did it take you to write that paragraph? Is there any reason it could not be written in a closed thread?

MOD NOTE: Perhaps you missed the "at the expense of other threads and forum issues." We usually multitask heavily when modding.

10 seconds can be a long time if you are dealing with a wall of open reports.

Exactly. There are a lot of tasks that moderators and administrators do behind the scenes, either in connection or addition to moderation. You aren't aware of these, but you'd certainly notice if we didn't do them!

We have already mentioned in this thread that ideally there should be a note when a thread is closed, and that the privacy policy prevents us in most cases from being explicit about problems, because we'd be discussing specific moderation. We've explained what lies behind phrases such as "this thread has run it's course". We've said that if a thread is closed, there is always a reason anchored in the rules. (At this point I'm tempted to say that this thread has now run it's course! 😛)

It's easy to forget sometimes that we all have the same goal - to keep good discussions going ("good" as defined by the forum rules, not anyone's personal opinion).

Everything is subjective of course. For example, this thread is a beauty, every other post is argumentative, belittling and adding little or nothing to the thread, yet it has not "run its course". https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...droid-phone-cant-edit-and-vice-versa.1234386/

When you see problems, please report a few of the problem posts. We can't possibly see everything ourselves, so we rely to a great extent on reports. There are simply so many new posts each day that you'd need a much larger, full-time staff to be able to check all posts.

IMO I didn't see anything worse in the thread I'm asking about, but once again I'm not privy to what was deleted. Although as a thread I refreshed a lot I had a good idea of the good and bad.

You're right, you're not privy to deleted and edited posts.

In any event I don't mean for this to get out of hand. My intention was to inquire as to the official policy of commenting on a closed thread. It's a privately owned forum where the owners can do anything they want.

You're right, it's a private site, but we don't mind explaining why we do things the way we do. We want the user experience to be as good as possible, taking into account that on a site with over 800 000 members, there will never be complete agreement.

The rules are only in place to try to keep things running as smoothly as possible. They're not there to make it harder than necessary for members!

Many of the threads in the alternatives section turn into a showcase of stupid when one or two of the religious iOS users show up. If we can stop that part then we can ask for something back from the mods and admins.

If members are trolling the Alternatives forum by f ex blasting non-iOS devices, please report them. Having us clean up the problems is what you can ask of us. That forum is there specifically for members who want to discuss alternatives to iOS in peace.

 

[lowendlinux]

If members are trolling the Alternatives forum by f ex blasting non-iOS devices, please report them. Having us clean up the problems is what you can ask of us. That forum is there specifically for members who want to discuss alternatives to iOS in peace.

It's both side of the debate on the trolling you'd need to to report every third comment 😀

It's a verbal boxing match to include the hugging when people get tired

 

[maflynn]

It's both side of the debate on the trolling you'd need to to report every third comment 😀

It's a verbal boxing match to include the hugging when people get tired

The alternative's forum is one of those forums where people "debate" very strongly regarding their platform of choice. True there can be some iOS fans being agitators but the same can be said on the other side of the fence.

Its one of those places where opposing forces but heads and sometimes there's fireworks. The moderation team does what it can to keep the posts within the rules but we cannot review each post, so we rely on the members to report anything they see that violates the rules.

 

[I7guy]

The alternative's forum is one of those forums where people "debate" very strongly regarding their platform of choice. True there can be some iOS fans being agitators but the same can be said on the other side of the fence.

Its one of those places where opposing forces but heads and sometimes there's fireworks. The moderation team does what it can to keep the posts within the rules but we cannot review each post, so we rely on the members to report anything they see that violates the rules.

I've been on the internet since the days of 1200 baud(hopefully I'm not dating myself) phones aren't the only thing people will get riled up about.

But some of those topics on that forum just invite or even beg for that type of spirited debate. There have been some strong opinions expressed on all sides of the fence; but still a string opinion is no excuse for not keeping it civil.

 

[balamw]

That forum is there specifically for members who want to discuss alternatives to iOS in peace.

MOD NOTE: Just a comment that "in peace" does not mean completely devoid of any mention of iOS nor does it give posters in the Alternatives section have free reign to attack posters who may disagree with them in the Alternatives section or ask them not to post in Alternatives threads.

The underlying rule is still "It's not your place to tell other users they are not welcome; if they follow the rules, they are welcome."

TL;DR "peace" is a relative term. 😛

B

 

[maflynn]

I've been on the internet since the days of 1200 baud(hopefully I'm not dating myself) phones aren't the only thing people will get riled up about.

I don't think anyone is contending that point, I was saying that Alternative's forum is one of those forums where competing opinions go against each other head to head.

but still a string opinion is no excuse for not keeping it civil.

Agreed and when it crosses the line the moderators get involved, provided they are notified, i.e., a post is reported.

 

[imaccooper]

As I've read through this discussion it seems like the mods and admins are getting talked down by some (even if that was not their intention). I just want to say that I am very appreciative of the job you do as it allows me to view these forums without having to worry about what Inwill read on every post.

I don't intend to be rude or arrogant, but I've read pretty much everything the staff has been saying in this thread in the rules for this site. Everything they do is explained very well there and would be worth a read if you don't understand their point.

 

[spinedoc77]

Exactly. There are a lot of tasks that moderators and administrators do behind the scenes, either in connection or addition to moderation. You aren't aware of these, but you'd certainly notice if we didn't do them!

We have already mentioned in this thread that ideally there should be a note when a thread is closed, and that the privacy policy prevents us in most cases from being explicit about problems, because we'd be discussing specific moderation. We've explained what lies behind phrases such as "this thread has run it's course". We've said that if a thread is closed, there is always a reason anchored in the rules. (At this point I'm tempted to say that this thread has now run it's course! 😛)

It's easy to forget sometimes that we all have the same goal - to keep good discussions going ("good" as defined by the forum rules, not anyone's personal opinion).

Yes I get it, but no response is no response. I get it, 10 seconds is too much time to waste on a closed thread. I asked and got my answer, locked threads don't have to have any reasoning posted in them. In any event "forum rules" in many ways boil down to subjective opinion. I can go out and choose a dozen threads like the one I linked which haven't been closed. Seriously, did you see some of the nasty unmoderated stuff being said in that thread?

When you see problems, please report a few of the problem posts. We can't possibly see everything ourselves, so we rely to a great extent on reports. There are simply so many new posts each day that you'd need a much larger, full-time staff to be able to check all posts.

Lol, it's a 2 1/2 year old thread. If a mod can't moderate it in that time then maybe there is an issue. No offense intended, but if there is a manpower issue then that's something to consider.

You're right, you're not privy to deleted and edited posts.

Thank you Captain Obvious =) To elaborate that was a thread I would very often refresh while doing my other work so I had a pretty good idea what was in it.

You're right, it's a private site, but we don't mind explaining why we do things the way we do. We want the user experience to be as good as possible, taking into account that on a site with over 800 000 members, there will never be complete agreement.

The rules are only in place to try to keep things running as smoothly as possible. They're not there to make it harder than necessary for members!

I totally understand and agree 100%, explaining why moderation action is taken is very important. That's a bit contrary to what's been posted as official policy, but I know it was meant to be taken as a positive.

If members are trolling the Alternatives forum by f ex blasting non-iOS devices, please report them. Having us clean up the problems is what you can ask of us. That forum is there specifically for members who want to discuss alternatives to iOS in peace.

 

[spinedoc77]

As I've read through this discussion it seems like the mods and admins are getting talked down by some (even if that was not their intention). I just want to say that I am very appreciative of the job you do as it allows me to view these forums without having to worry about what Inwill read on every post.

I don't intend to be rude or arrogant, but I've read pretty much everything the staff has been saying in this thread in the rules for this site. Everything they do is explained very well there and would be worth a read if you don't understand their point.

For my part I mean no disrespect at all. I'm a very frank person and tell it like it is. It was a simple question I asked, I got an answer then a bunch of over-explaining. It seemed the mods and others wanted to further discuss it, and it's a good subject to discuss IMO. I hope no one was sensitive enough to take offense or feel they were getting "talked down" to. I know first hand experience the tough, thankless, volunteer job a mod does, and at the end of the day someone comes to rain on your parade. So no offense meant and I'm very appreciative of the great job you guys do on here.

 

[dyn]

How so? I think we all communicated that we generally try to provide a reason for closing a thread, i.e., mod note, which is what the OP was wondering. That did not occur to in one situation and as explained that was the exception and not the rule. How else should we be more transparent when closing a thread?

That's the "problem" you try instead of doing it all the time. It should be mandatory that when closing a topic you put in a small text telling why it has been closed because it clears things up and prevents the "why did you close <thread>?" topics here. It doesn't have to be a long list of explaining why, just a small note which rule has been violated is enough. The beauty of all this is that you can do it automated by using canned responses. A beauty you've already discovered so why not expand on that?

As for the explanation as to how the modding works I don't understand why none of the staff/admins/mods refer to the FAQ: https://macrumors.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/sections/200309177-Moderation-FAQ Many answers can be found there right?