Can we declare Broadwell processors a flop on MacBooks yet?

[DavidBlack]

yeah. And when Cannonlake comes out, all those people who decided to wait for Skylake are just going to feel terrrrrrrrrible...

Yeah I know you can't keep up with technology. But if Skylake ships on time Cannonlake won't have the very short lifespan that Broadwell will have

 

[thadoggfather]

No more of a flop than 2013 and 2014 models having Haswell architecture.

Talk about dragged out. Though Haswell is still great, I appreciate die shrink and energy efficiency gains. the 2015 seems to get better battery than 2014 in my limited time with 2015 so far.

 

[Hieveryone]

I would have to agree. The hype on MacRumors and in general over Broadwell was big. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem noticably better than Haswell unless you need 4k connectivity. 4k isn't even mainstream yet so I would holdout for skylake OR get a cheaper haswell model.

I have the Haswell, and the only time it has failed me was when trying to play 4k videos at 60 fps. At 30 it's great.

 

[thadoggfather]

4k connectivity will be nice to have down the road when I want to toss my 24" 1920x1200 by the wayside.

The performance boosts aren't anything to be super boastful about (understatement) but I went from Sandy Bridge macbook air so its a quantum leap for me.

I think these "waiting for _______ " now up to skylake is what really sets one up for disappointment. It's new CPU, not a dramatic overhaul of how one uses a computer as a whole.

 

[ZBoater]

Yeah I know you can't keep up with technology. But if Skylake ships on time Cannonlake won't have the very short lifespan that Broadwell will have

That is assuming Broadwell suddenly becomes obsolete once Skylake comes out.

And that assumption is just plain wrong.

 

[DavidBlack]

That is assuming Broadwell suddenly becomes obsolete once Skylake comes out.



And that assumption is just plain wrong.

When I refer to short lifespan, I'm not referring to whether the product becomes obsolete or not. Rather I'm referring to the lifespan in which the processor had as Intel's 'current' processor family.

 

[ZBoater]

When I refer to short lifespan, I'm not referring to whether the product becomes obsolete or not. Rather I'm referring to the lifespan in which the processor had as Intel's 'current' processor family.

So instead of "lifespan", you are referring to the title of Intel's most current processor?

I see.

Just as long as we are communicating....

 

[DavidBlack]

So instead of "lifespan", you are referring to the title of Intel's most current processor?

I see.

Just as long as we are communicating....

Yes, if you put it that way. Glad I cleared that up for you.

 

[Roller]

Because of the many delays for Broadwell, people who bought computers with these processors will feel cheated with Skylake begins to come out in a couple of months. When the Skylake rMBPs come out I will sell my current rMBP 13" 2015 and buy a Skylake one.

Depends what you mean by "a couple of months." In February, DigiTimes reported that Skylake would be delayed until August 2015. Even if that's true, it's unlikely Apple would release refreshed MacBook Pros or Airs immediately - it'll probably take at least a few more months. So I think we're looking at closer to October/November.

 

[Fthree]

yeah. And when Cannonlake comes out, all those people who decided to wait for Skylake are just going to feel terrrrrrrrrible...

and the truth comes out!

Prove that the Skylake processers are better than broad well today...... you cannot so just be happy living in the now.

----------

for the record my 2015 13' is KILLING IT! love this thing.

 

[mcarling]

I don't expect to see a Skylake MBP before February 2016.

 

[capitanbuzo]

I don't expect to see a Skylake MBP before February 2016.

Why?

 

[Samuelsan2001]

Because

Why?

although skylake will start to release this year not all the chips will be available at the same time, current rumours put the desktop chips sometime between august and october.

I can't see the mobile chips being available until the end of the year.

Add to that DDR4 and wireless screen connection options on the new chip and apple may well decide on a completely new design to take advantage of the tech in it. This will give months of R&D before the computer is available. So at the moment Feb-March 2016 does look like a good bet for skylake macbook pro's.

We may get Imacs in fall though.

 

[Mildredop]

I wasn't impressed with the new rMBP 13, returned it the next day. Sub par performance when doing heavy lifting in CS6 and it didn't even play 1080p video in iMovie without lagging in the preview window while trying to edit it. What kind of lagging and stuttering are you talking about?

I've got a mid-2014 2.6GHz Core i5 13" Retina MacBook Pro - is this the same? This machine is fairly terrible and doesn't deserve the 'pro' moniker.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

Of course it does

I've got a mid-2014 2.6GHz Core i5 13" Retina MacBook Pro - is this the same? This machine is fairly terrible and doesn't deserve the 'pro' moniker.

That is a perfect machine for many professionals on the go. It is slim light and powerful perfect for huge spreadsheets, presentations, taking notes, running websites, writing anything. It'll deal well with photos, light video editing and will run most apps reasonably well (great for a thin light quiet cool laptop).

Of course if you are doing heavy video editing, CAD, 3D work etc etc then you need a quad core CPU and much better graphics. If you bought the wrong computer for your work that is your lookout.

It is part of your job to know what tech you need for your workload if you don't then it's time you learnt and bought the appropriate tool for the job....

 

[Mildredop]

That is a perfect machine for many professionals on the go. It is slim light and powerful perfect for huge spreadsheets, presentations, taking notes, running websites, writing anything. It'll deal well with photos, light video editing and will run most apps reasonably well (great for a thin light quiet cool laptop).

Of course if you are doing heavy video editing, CAD, 3D work etc etc then you need a quad core CPU and much better graphics. If you bought the wrong computer for your work that is your lookout.

It is part of your job to know what tech you need for your workload if you don't then it's time you learnt and bought the appropriate tool for the job....

Well, that told me.

I guess I thought a £1,300 computer would easily handle some emails and internet browsing, simple spreadsheets and a bit of word processing and watching BBC iPlayer.

 

[maflynn]

Probably flop externally, but a die shrink in the manufacturing process is no small undertaking. They most likely ran into issues related to that (and hopefully learned a lot from it to help prevent similar things for the next die shrink.) The extra time taken by them to resolve those issues would most likely help keep the Skylake project on track, but unfortunately puts Broadwell right into the waste basket from the perspective of a lot of their customers.

Admittedly, I haven't done any reading on the "why's" of the delays, so this is mere speculation on my part, but it makes the most sense to me.

But they could have pushed skylake back due to Broadwell's delay, this would maximize Broadwell's worth and not really impact Skylakes. Now as you say, it will be in the waste basket shortly.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

It does with ease

Well, that told me.

I guess I thought a £1,300 computer would easily handle some emails and internet browsing, simple spreadsheets and a bit of word processing and watching BBC iPlayer.

I have a haswell late 2013 rMBP and it does that and more with ease. If yours doesn't then it needs to be returned and replaced.

That could be done on a chromebook with ease.

If you are having troubles doing that then either your computer is F*d, or thats not the whole story...

 

[mcarling]

Why?

Suitable Skylake CPUs will not be released by Intel in time for the year-end holiday shoplifting season.

But they could have pushed skylake back due to Broadwell's delay, this would maximize Broadwell's worth and not really impact Skylakes. Now as you say, it will be in the waste basket shortly.

All of the expensive development for Broadwell applies equally to Skylake so, from Intel's perspective, nothing is wasted. The development costs of the 14nm process are amortized across both Broadwell and Skylake. There is no technical or business reason for Intel to artificially delay Skylake.

 

[maflynn]

There is no technical or business reason for Intel to artificially delay Skylake.

It does affect sales, a product they develop will not turn much of a profit. From a book keeping perspective I think it does have a negative impact.

 

[Roller]

Well, that told me.

I guess I thought a £1,300 computer would easily handle some emails and internet browsing, simple spreadsheets and a bit of word processing and watching BBC iPlayer.

You didn't say much in your earlier post, other than claim that your 2014 rMBP is "fairly terrible" and doesn't deserve to be called "pro." But if your computer can't handle the tasks you describe above, there is something wrong with it. Word processing and reading/sending email are not demanding, nor is simple spreadsheet work. Basic video should also be well within its capabilities.

To answer your question "Is this the same?" No, this thread is about the successor to your laptop, the 2015 rMBP with Intel's "Broadwell" architecture. There have been complaints that it lags, along with much speculation about whether this is a problem with Yosemite, the hardware, or both. I tend to think that it's OS X 10.10 and hope that an update will restore smooth performance for those who are having problems.

I'm waiting a bit longer for the dust to settle before replacing my 2011 MBA.

 

[capitanbuzo]

although skylake will start to release this year not all the chips will be available at the same time, current rumours put the desktop chips sometime between august and october.

I can't see the mobile chips being available until the end of the year.

Add to that DDR4 and wireless screen connection options on the new chip and apple may well decide on a completely new design to take advantage of the tech in it. This will give months of R&D before the computer is available. So at the moment Feb-March 2016 does look like a good bet for skylake macbook pro's.

We may get Imacs in fall though.

Apple would have been in R&D stages for a while now. They aren't going to wait for the chip to be released before starting their project. From what I read, it appears that's mobile chips will be available prior to year end. Given this and the fact that the 15" has remained untouched for a while, I think it's a fair assessment that we will see Skylake prior to year end.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

I really don't

Apple would have been in R&D stages for a while now. They aren't going to wait for the chip to be released before starting their project. From what I read, it appears that's mobile chips will be available prior to year end. Given this and the fact that the 15" has remained untouched for a while, I think it's a fair assessment that we will see Skylake prior to year end.

Apple are committed to using at least some broadwell chips they will do a broadwell 15 inch when it arrives and they won't do another skylake one 6 months later.

9 months maybe (march next year) but not 6.

I also think you are giving too much ability for apple to do their development without the chips and chip sets in hand. Especially if they do a redesign.

Still this is all just speculative nonsense and you are entitled to your outrageous guess as much as I am...

 

[mcarling]

It does affect sales, a product they develop will not turn much of a profit. From a book keeping perspective I think it does have a negative impact.

Typically, that would be the case, but not in this case because of Tick-Tock, except in a trivial way.

Consider a particular SKU. There are two different sorts of development costs involved. The main cost (perhaps about 98 to 99%) is that SKU's share of the cost of developing the process (in the Broadwell case, the 14nm process). The costs separate from the process, which critically cannot be applied to Skylake, such as the layout for that particular SKU, probably don't exceed about 2%.

So a short sales life for Broadwell cuts into Intel's profit with regard to the very minor development costs, but not at all with respect to the major development costs.

From an accounting perspective, the process development costs are amortized across both Broadwell and Skylake and only the minor SKU-specific development costs are attributed exclusively to Broadwell sales.

The benefit of a process slip of less than about a year not affecting the next microarchitecture and vice-versa the benefit of a microarchitecture slip of less than about a year not affecting the next process shrink was one of the main motivations for Tick-Tock.

 

[mcarling]

Apple would have been in R&D stages for a while now. They aren't going to wait for the chip to be released before starting their project. From what I read, it appears that's mobile chips will be available prior to year end. Given this and the fact that the 15" has remained untouched for a while, I think it's a fair assessment that we will see Skylake prior to year end.

You started off on firm ground and then wandered into a bog. Apple certainly have samples of Skylake-H chips running at various speeds. This suffices for Apple to design and develop the logic board for the 15" MBP. However, it does not suffice to do the rigorous testing that Apple do prior to large-scale production. Remember, Apple will need to produce nearly a million per month, so the manufacturing process needs to be flawless too.

The Skylake-H chips that will go into the 15" MBP support DDR4. Intel's focus is on getting the Skylake-M and Skylake-U chips supporting DDR3 out the door first. I just don't see any chance whatsoever that Intel could have several hundred thousand Skylake-H chips per month in Apple's hands by September, which would be needed for an early November MBP release. Apple will not make the mistake again of releasing during the peak holiday shoplifting season.

On the other hand, it might be possible for Apple to release a 13" Skylake MBP in time for the 2015 peak holiday shoplifting season. I'm not at all confident either than it will be possible or that Apple would choose to do another 13" MBP release without the 15" MBP, but I cannot rule it out.