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Can't install or boot Windows 10 from separate PCIe NVME M.2 on Mac Pro 5,1?

AppleDrank

macrumors member
Original poster
May 15, 2019
31
0
Arizona
I have Mojave booting and running from a PCIe M.2 NVME on Mac Pro 5,1 with RX-580.

I have a second PCIe M.2 NVME, and I want to run Windows off that.

I can boot into a Windows 10 installation on an IDE drive mounted on sled 2, using Abry Franco's excellent boot manager. https://abdyfran.co/projects/boot-manager.

But it runs very slow, so I picked up a second PCIe M.2 NVME and PCIe card to host the Windows installation. To my surprise, I can't get Windows to install from the DVD -- the installer says Windows is not supported from this kind of drive. I played around with converting from Master Boot Record partition to GPR, no joy.

Next, I tried using MiniTool Partition Wizard 11 to clone the working Windows 10 drive onto the PCIe M.2 NVME.

Boot Manager sees the new Windows installation (called Bootcamp, because I installed the iMac Pro 1,1 drivers on the Windows partition using Brigadier), but I can't boot into it.

When I try, I just get a black screen that says "Insert Bootable Disk."

I'm sure I've seen someone on here say they have figured out how to make this work, but I can't seem to find directions how to make it work.

Thanks!
 

axrst

macrumors newbie
Apr 6, 2019
23
3
Greece
No, just install windows in any bay's SSD. Windows does not support installation in an external drive. And nvme in pcie consider as external.
 
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avatar1349

macrumors member
Feb 25, 2009
59
13
Netherlands
I have Mojave booting and running from a PCIe M.2 NVME on Mac Pro 5,1 with RX-580.

I have a second PCIe M.2 NVME, and I want to run Windows off that.

I can boot into a Windows 10 installation on an IDE drive mounted on sled 2, using Abry Franco's excellent boot manager. https://abdyfran.co/projects/boot-manager.


But it runs very slow, so I picked up a second PCIe M.2 NVME and PCIe card to host the Windows installation. To my surprise, I can't get Windows to install from the DVD -- the installer says Windows is not supported from this kind of drive. I played around with converting from Master Boot Record partition to GPR, no joy.

Next, I tried using MiniTool Partition Wizard 11 to clone the working Windows 10 drive onto the PCIe M.2 NVME.

Boot Manager sees the new Windows installation (called Bootcamp, because I installed the iMac Pro 1,1 drivers on the Windows partition using Brigadier), but I can't boot into it.

When I try, I just get a black screen that says "Insert Bootable Disk."

I'm sure I've seen someone on here say they have figured out how to make this work, but I can't seem to find directions how to make it work.

Thanks!

If I might make a suggestion? Why not use SuperDuper? I used it to put MacOS High Sierra from a SATAIII SSD to a NVMe 970EVO Plus SSD and made that one bootable as well. It has to be said that the NVMe 970EVO Plus is NOT the best choice, so for myself I'm looking to get a NVMe 970EVO Pro (500GB) but at least that little proggie did the job (surprisingly)
https://www.shirt-pocket.com/SuperDuper/SuperDuperDescription.html
 
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Squuiid

macrumors 68000
Oct 31, 2006
1,674
1,039
No, just install windows in any bay's SSD. Windows does not support installation in an external drive. And nvme in pcie consider as external.
SM951 is considered an external drive yet I can install Windows 10 no problem. Admittedly it’s AHCI not NVMe but still.

Take out all other drives and install Windows using the DVD.
 
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cococheaf

macrumors regular
Jul 10, 2018
100
51
Austria - Lake of Constance
I had installed windows and mojave each onto a dedicated samsung 970 evo nvme drive. it worked perfectly, the only culprit was to install windows in EFI Mode, while the mojave nvme was removed during the setup. be aware that it is strongly advised to NOT install windows in EFI mode.
 
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Geitekaas

macrumors newbie
Jul 21, 2018
4
1
Netherlands
How did you do that?
I thought that Windows NEVER installs on a external drive? I tried it on a SSD screwed on a Accelsior PCI card. Just the card and nothing else.... tried a usb installer (did not work), dis a DVD installer, also no luck. Can you elaborate?
 
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crjackson2134

macrumors 601
Mar 6, 2013
4,746
1,902
Charlotte, NC
How did you do that?
I thought that Windows NEVER installs on a external drive? I tried it on a SSD screwed on a Accelsior PCI card. Just the card and nothing else.... tried a usb installer (did not work), dis a DVD installer, also no luck. Can you elaborate?

He just kinda told you... ;)

He removed his macOS drive, then did a UEFI install of Win10 to his other Samsung 970 EVO - NVMe SSD.
 
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Geitekaas

macrumors newbie
Jul 21, 2018
4
1
Netherlands
That, I did understand. But I did (or tried) the same. Windows did not install... SSD on PCI Acceslsior S. Install yes. Boot, nope.
With the USB installer....
 
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AppleDrank

macrumors member
Original poster
May 15, 2019
31
0
Arizona
I tried installing from DVD after physically removing all other storage media. It did not work.
 
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avatar1349

macrumors member
Feb 25, 2009
59
13
Netherlands
Windows in a window.png View.png Windows Full Screen.png
I tried installing from DVD after physically removing all other storage media. It did not work.

Why not using VMWare-Fusion?; With a NVMe drive as host (MacOS) there is no lag whatsoever; I've been doing that for years and I never looked back. The advantage of running VMWare-Fusion is that you can just pick an ISO and install the OS and run it full screen in the native resolution (whatever monitor you use) and no more screwing up BootRoms, because (in this case) Windows is trying or does install security certificates in the BootRom!!!! Problem Solved!!!!
 
Last edited:
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axrst

macrumors newbie
Apr 6, 2019
23
3
Greece
Performance in a VM is much lower than in the actual machine. If the use is MSoffice etc, it's ok, but for gaming or other demanding tasks it's not.
 
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AppleDrank

macrumors member
Original poster
May 15, 2019
31
0
Arizona
Why is this not recommended? Thanks!

I had installed windows and mojave each onto a dedicated samsung 970 evo nvme drive. it worked perfectly, the only culprit was to install windows in EFI Mode, while the mojave nvme was removed during the setup. be aware that it is strongly advised to NOT install windows in EFI mode.
 
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AppleDrank

macrumors member
Original poster
May 15, 2019
31
0
Arizona
Installing windows in efi mode is known to populate the nvram with secureboot certificates which can corrupt the nvram, thus leading to a bricked, unbootable mac. Read the Mac Pro Bootrom Wiki thread for further details.

That is what I suspected. There is another poster here who states there is no such problem with Windows 8.1. I am inclined to give this a try but bricked is a high price to pay if I am wrong. Do you regularly dual boot? Do you have a strategy for avoiding "bricked?"
 
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assoc

macrumors member
Jul 14, 2013
54
5
Yep. I dual boot every evening for running my games. I have installed windows in non EFI Mode, so there will be no issues by doing so.
You installed windows onto a NVME M.2 without using EFI mode? Could you tell me the steps you used?

EDIT: You said earlier you did use EFI mode?
 
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cococheaf

macrumors regular
Jul 10, 2018
100
51
Austria - Lake of Constance
You installed windows onto a NVME M.2 without using EFI mode? Could you tell me the steps you used?

EDIT: You said earlier you did use EFI mode?
#

Thats correct until @tsialex told us that it can corrupt the bootrom.
So i trashed everything, burned a Windows install DVD, removed all drives except the NVME SSD and installed windows via the bootscreen method in legacy mode. at this time i had an original gpu in the mac, because the mvc flashed one had problems and only worked under EFI mode.
 
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crjackson2134

macrumors 601
Mar 6, 2013
4,746
1,902
Charlotte, NC
#

Thats correct until @tsialex told us that it can corrupt the bootrom.
So i trashed everything, burned a Windows install DVD, removed all drives except the NVME SSD and installed windows via the bootscreen method in legacy mode. at this time i had an original gpu in the mac, because the mvc flashed one had problems and only worked under EFI mode.

Interesting...
So, on your cMP, can you give us a screenshot of this accomplishment, and then make sure you are actually using Windows in "Legacy" mode from your system information summary? This would be a great help too many.

https://itsfoss.com/check-uefi-or-bios/
 
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chris.pielkenrood

macrumors member
Feb 24, 2018
32
3
i would, but i can‘t. switched to a mini a few weeks ago. very sorry for that.
So You are the only one I can find who managed to get A Mac Pro setup with Windows and Mojave on there OWN NVME ssd’s. Nice! I hope you can still give Some details about this.

- are you running with 2x Pcie adapters for both of the NVMe blades?
- do you run a Mac Pro 4.1 to 5.1 converted?
- can you tell more about the method of installing Win10 in legacy mode on a NVME SSD (on a PCIE adapter)? You call it the bootscreen method. How does this work?

many thanks!!
 
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cococheaf

macrumors regular
Jul 10, 2018
100
51
Austria - Lake of Constance
Again, i do not own the mac pro anymore, i WAS running it on separate ssd's (DT-120s to be exact).

First, i let check and reorganize my bootrom from @tsialex.
After flashing the perfectly clean and working one, I removed all the unnecessary hardware (USB3, second DT120 with the mac system, wifi card, etc.). Then I burned a DVD from Windows 10 1803, booted it while having a original mac gpu installed (in BOOTCAMP aka LEGACY MODE) and installed it to the nvme drive.

Then i installed the bootcamp 6.1 control panel (via brigadier, DL for MP61 excluding drivers).
Gave the NIC a fixed IP and enabled Remotedesktop, then shutdown the mac.

Swapped in my MVC flashed GTX1070, booted into windows with boot picker and installed the gpu drivers.
Then i rebooted the system.

That worked for me - so it hopefully will with you.
 
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goodfidelity

macrumors regular
Nov 15, 2015
104
7
Is it possible to have MacOS X and Windows 10 on the same blade then? Or will this cause same problem, as computer thinks this is external drive?

Thanks
 
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