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Car buying advice
- Thread starter waloshin
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American cars last about 50K miles before needing new engines and transmissions. Japanese cars last around 300K miles before needing new engines or transmissions.
So basically you can buy 6 American cars or 1 Japanese car to get to 300K miles. What would you choose
Wow, did you get these facts from The Onion?
2 out of the three GM's that are in my family are above 50K and those vehicles are still on their original engines and transmissions.
Wow, did you get these facts from The Onion?
2 out of the three GM's that are in my family are above 50K and those vehicles are still on their original engines and transmissions.
Oh my God you are really pushing your luck. Get ready for new engines and trannys.
Am I missing something here? Is my sarcasm meter broken or are you being serious?
i think it's a bit of both.
For how much you're paying for a new Dodge Caliber nowadays, I'd rather get this:
2009 Honda Fit Sport AT
2009 Honda Fit Sport AT
For how much you're paying for a new Dodge Caliber nowadays, I'd rather get this:
2009 Honda Fit Sport AT
Wow! Now that is a butt ugly car.
The amount of misinformation in this thread is astounding. OP, you can basically ignore anyone who says not to buy an American car. Same goes for anyone who says to avoid Dodge cars. Though, it is their right to have an opinion, no matter how misinformed it is.
I've driven both cars as rentals on business trips. I loved the Caliber but I think I prefer the Avenger, of the two...mainly due to the styling. Though, both are great looking. In terms of quality, I found both to be very good. You wouldn't go wrong with either!
For my next car, I'm actually thinking of getting a Dodge Challenger. I think it would be a great replacement for my '02 Mercury Cougar.
Of the Big 3, Chrysler products are the worst. With my experience as well, I would avoid them. Transmission failures, suspension problems, engine overheating with low miles, sensors malfunctioning, oil pump failing, window seals not that good, etc. My family just loved getting lemons from Chrysler. I haven't looked at a Chrysler product ever since we dumped our 2001 Sebring back in 2005 so I can not say much about their current products, but looking at them at autoshows, etc. They did not impress. Sure their exterior designs are really good, but the interior is severely lacking.
Not to go off topic but here I go, why can't an american car company or any company really make an attractive looking car body that is in the 20k price range. I know all the details within a more expensive car add to cost, interior, materials, etc. But why does every crappy looking car have to look the same until you reach the money bracket of bmw, audi, etc. Saab's have a different look for a decent price. Some VW's have a nice look.
If i had to buy a car right now I'd throw up in my mouth a bit at what's available. Is it an engineering feat where only the nice looking/creative bodies are able to be made for a high price or is it simply that the nice looking car companies (more expensive) put the work into advancing their products with eye appealing design? Ford, GM, Chrysler...there isn't one car that I would consider attractive no matter how much money I had to spend. Perhaps it's just my taste but I don't think so. I'd love to buy an american car if it actually appealed to me and that's been the case for a long time.
If i had to buy a car right now I'd throw up in my mouth a bit at what's available. Is it an engineering feat where only the nice looking/creative bodies are able to be made for a high price or is it simply that the nice looking car companies (more expensive) put the work into advancing their products with eye appealing design? Ford, GM, Chrysler...there isn't one car that I would consider attractive no matter how much money I had to spend. Perhaps it's just my taste but I don't think so. I'd love to buy an american car if it actually appealed to me and that's been the case for a long time.
True. I know the lead designer for Mercedes Benz of North America and their main plant is in Georgia.
I own a 2008 Dodge Caliber 2.0 Liter SXT (automatic), and drove a 2008 Avenger when my Caliber was in the shop (got hit by a snow plow). Chrysler was not my first choice in a car, but my father in law works at Chrysler in Brampton Ontario and he bought it with his employee discount. It's hard to say no to a brand new car for $12 000.
Anyway, the Caliber isn't a van and can't be compared to a van as some people have tried to compare it to. For a car, it is very roomy with ample storage space. All of the seats (except the drivers seat) fold completely flat which gives extra space.
I did not get the car sound proofed or anything additional done to the body after market. My car is not exceptionally noisy. You can hear the engine while accelerating, but it is not what I would consider too noisy. If the car is on and the AC off, it is hard to tell that the car is on. The AC unit is loud, but most cars have loud AC units. The Caliber is not a race car, it is not exceptionally fast, but has decent acceleration. It handles well in the city, highway driving is ok... it's fairly smooth, but I have driven other cars which are smoother.
I like the interior of the Caliber. All of the controls are right up front and centre, and easy to access without looking. Plus there is a 120v DC to AC converter so I can plug my computer in and use while riding shotgun. I like the cooler in the glove box, it is not overly cold, but will keep water or pop cold no problem. The ventilation system must be on for this to work which is something I do not like, though if I have the heat on, the cooler is blowing cold air which means they are not the same temperature.
I find the seats are very comfortable, with ample leg room. The floor has some weird 'box' like things which made finding floor mats harder. I don't mind the exterior. I like the boxy finish of the Caliber, but I find it only looks good in a few colours. I have a Steal Blue Caliber which I think the boxy finish looks great in. We also considered the classic Dodge red (which my wife vetoed against). We also looked at silver, which frankly looks horrid when used on something this boxy.
As far as the Avenger goes, I drove it for a week. It was the 2.4L model with automatic transmission. It was a rental so I drove it harder then I drive my Caliber. It obviously is much faster, and therefore much louder. I found it quiet when turned on without the AC on, but it was too noisy when accelerating. Even accelerating normally (without flooring it) was too loud for my tastes.
The interior was much larger and more spacious then the Caliber. However it was too flat for my liking. The seat was too close to the ground for my liking, and the gear shifter was level with the seat. The central panel with the radio and climate controls is nicely centered and looks classy at first, but after using it, it is easy to tell it is cheap. The climate control nobs are simply plastic with a chrome sticker on them. They felt cheap and were fickle to use. To adjust the fan speed or temperature, only the outside of the nob moved, the inside had the temperature and fan speeds printed on them. This made the nobs loose and made vibration sounds.
I liked the steering wheel. It had chrome finishing which looked classy and felt good. I liked the telescoping adjustment. The car handles well in city, and is very smooth on the highway.
My wife and I looked at both the Caliber and Avenger when we bought our car. Ultimately we went with the Caliber because it got better fuel milage, had a CVT transmission (you don't feel the car change gears it's amazing), it was smaller but still had amble storage room and seating. We both liked the interior better (especially the DC to AC converter), and the price was right.
It really depends what you want to use the car for. If you want performance, get the avenger. If you simply want a tool to get from one place to another with storage and seating, get the Caliber.
If we had to make the choice again we would have made the same one. It will be 1 year old on May 20th and we haven't had any problems with it at all. We put on just over 12 000KM, mostly in city driving. The Avenger was fun to drive as it is fast and has attitude. But it really wasn't practical for us. In my opinion, the Avenger is just a poor man's Charger.
EDIT: I forgot to add the part about the air bags. The Caliber has front air bags for driver and passenger, plus side impact air bags for driver and passenger, plus it has and airbag under the steering wheel to protect the driver's knees. I don't know what the Avenger has, but I do feel safe in my Caliber.
EDIT 2: Also, if we hadn't got my father in law's discount we would have got something else. Our car was worth $23 000 retail after we added some packages, but got it for $12 009. I would never pay full price. We probably would have got a Hyundai or a cheaper used car had it not been for the discount. I'm all for supporting the domestic automakers, but if they can't produce a quality cheap car, then I can only purchase what I can afford and the foreign automakers make cheaper cars.
Anyway, the Caliber isn't a van and can't be compared to a van as some people have tried to compare it to. For a car, it is very roomy with ample storage space. All of the seats (except the drivers seat) fold completely flat which gives extra space.
I did not get the car sound proofed or anything additional done to the body after market. My car is not exceptionally noisy. You can hear the engine while accelerating, but it is not what I would consider too noisy. If the car is on and the AC off, it is hard to tell that the car is on. The AC unit is loud, but most cars have loud AC units. The Caliber is not a race car, it is not exceptionally fast, but has decent acceleration. It handles well in the city, highway driving is ok... it's fairly smooth, but I have driven other cars which are smoother.
I like the interior of the Caliber. All of the controls are right up front and centre, and easy to access without looking. Plus there is a 120v DC to AC converter so I can plug my computer in and use while riding shotgun. I like the cooler in the glove box, it is not overly cold, but will keep water or pop cold no problem. The ventilation system must be on for this to work which is something I do not like, though if I have the heat on, the cooler is blowing cold air which means they are not the same temperature.
I find the seats are very comfortable, with ample leg room. The floor has some weird 'box' like things which made finding floor mats harder. I don't mind the exterior. I like the boxy finish of the Caliber, but I find it only looks good in a few colours. I have a Steal Blue Caliber which I think the boxy finish looks great in. We also considered the classic Dodge red (which my wife vetoed against). We also looked at silver, which frankly looks horrid when used on something this boxy.
As far as the Avenger goes, I drove it for a week. It was the 2.4L model with automatic transmission. It was a rental so I drove it harder then I drive my Caliber. It obviously is much faster, and therefore much louder. I found it quiet when turned on without the AC on, but it was too noisy when accelerating. Even accelerating normally (without flooring it) was too loud for my tastes.
The interior was much larger and more spacious then the Caliber. However it was too flat for my liking. The seat was too close to the ground for my liking, and the gear shifter was level with the seat. The central panel with the radio and climate controls is nicely centered and looks classy at first, but after using it, it is easy to tell it is cheap. The climate control nobs are simply plastic with a chrome sticker on them. They felt cheap and were fickle to use. To adjust the fan speed or temperature, only the outside of the nob moved, the inside had the temperature and fan speeds printed on them. This made the nobs loose and made vibration sounds.
I liked the steering wheel. It had chrome finishing which looked classy and felt good. I liked the telescoping adjustment. The car handles well in city, and is very smooth on the highway.
My wife and I looked at both the Caliber and Avenger when we bought our car. Ultimately we went with the Caliber because it got better fuel milage, had a CVT transmission (you don't feel the car change gears it's amazing), it was smaller but still had amble storage room and seating. We both liked the interior better (especially the DC to AC converter), and the price was right.
It really depends what you want to use the car for. If you want performance, get the avenger. If you simply want a tool to get from one place to another with storage and seating, get the Caliber.
If we had to make the choice again we would have made the same one. It will be 1 year old on May 20th and we haven't had any problems with it at all. We put on just over 12 000KM, mostly in city driving. The Avenger was fun to drive as it is fast and has attitude. But it really wasn't practical for us. In my opinion, the Avenger is just a poor man's Charger.
EDIT: I forgot to add the part about the air bags. The Caliber has front air bags for driver and passenger, plus side impact air bags for driver and passenger, plus it has and airbag under the steering wheel to protect the driver's knees. I don't know what the Avenger has, but I do feel safe in my Caliber.
EDIT 2: Also, if we hadn't got my father in law's discount we would have got something else. Our car was worth $23 000 retail after we added some packages, but got it for $12 009. I would never pay full price. We probably would have got a Hyundai or a cheaper used car had it not been for the discount. I'm all for supporting the domestic automakers, but if they can't produce a quality cheap car, then I can only purchase what I can afford and the foreign automakers make cheaper cars.
The Dodge Caliber is a horrible, horrible car. The Avenger isn't much better either.
They have both received very poor marks in reliability since they debuted.
They have both received very poor marks in reliability since they debuted.
Still I have to say: why can't american car companies design an attractive looking car. Obviously this is open to taste but every car looks the same.
The Toyota Camry is one of my favorite cars. Its really smooth looking and drives nicely.
*Update*
- I live 2 hours away from any dealer that isn't domestic. In my city all we have is 2 Chrysler dealerships, 1 GM dealership and one Ford dealership.
* So I would love to get a Vw Jetta, but how would I get recalls, and repair work done such as wheel alignments. Also what is with a small car like the Gasoline Jetta, and the Golf getting a pathetic 21 city / 29 highway mpg?
I was looking at the 2009 Toyota Corolla, and it gets a bad crash test rating, safety is on the top of my list.
I don't like GM and I don't like Ford.
- I live 2 hours away from any dealer that isn't domestic. In my city all we have is 2 Chrysler dealerships, 1 GM dealership and one Ford dealership.
* So I would love to get a Vw Jetta, but how would I get recalls, and repair work done such as wheel alignments. Also what is with a small car like the Gasoline Jetta, and the Golf getting a pathetic 21 city / 29 highway mpg?
I was looking at the 2009 Toyota Corolla, and it gets a bad crash test rating, safety is on the top of my list.
I don't like GM and I don't like Ford.
No. I do not find the toyota camry acceptable or even interesting to look at as a car. I still say why can't car companies make an interesting shape that makes people excited or happy. If you want to buy a camry that looks like everything else...go ahead. I'm overall bored by the stuff that is offered.
Most people in my family worked at the GM plants in Oshawa, so it runs through my blood. I do like the front of the Malibu, but not the rear. I don't know which year it is, but one of the Malibu's has a smooth/circular front and a boxy back. I didn't like it at all.
I haven't seen the inside of a Malibu, it was out of our price range so we didn't look at them too closely.
I haven't seen the inside of a Malibu, it was out of our price range so we didn't look at them too closely.
Which plant in Oshawa? The truck plant or the car plant? If the car plant, could your family hook me up with a Camaro?
Oh and here is the rear of the current Malibu. I agree the front is attractive, while the rear is too square for me. That is why I like the Aura better.
I'm not sure which plant they were at. I would guess probably both because a lot of people on my dad's side worked there. I don't know them too well as I do not live in Oshawa so sadly no discounts for you or me.
EDIT: This is the Malibu I don't like. The rear end just looks out of place.
EDIT: This is the Malibu I don't like. The rear end just looks out of place.
My Mom was wanting to buy a Dodge Caliber and my friend just happened to come in this week with a rental Caliber. We rode around in it for a few hours and honestly, I wouldn't even consider one when buying a new car. The visibility is HORRIBLE. I have an '02 Elantra Hatchback and the visibility when backing up isn't the best, but damn, the Caliber was WAY worse. SO many blind spots. I don't know what the designers were thinking. Plus, the windshield seemed very small and the visibility wasn't great out of it, either. I'm only 5'6" or so, so it's hard for me to see out of a lot of cars, but my friend is 6'5" and he said even he had trouble seeing out of it. That was my main problem with it. It also had a CVT, which I didn't really like. I'd say you get used to it after a while, but it was definitely odd.
The interior seemed of better quality than I was expecting, but it wasn't great. My '02 Elantra feels much more solid on all fronts.
I totally recommend Hyundai if buying a new car. If I had the money, though, I'd probably be buying a VW GTI.
The interior seemed of better quality than I was expecting, but it wasn't great. My '02 Elantra feels much more solid on all fronts.
I totally recommend Hyundai if buying a new car. If I had the money, though, I'd probably be buying a VW GTI.
That's interesting what you say about the blind spots FadeToBlack. I'm right in between 5'6" and 6'5" (I'm 6'0") and I found there is only one blind spot, and it's immediately to the front left (drivers side).
As in when you're taking a left hand turn you can see oncoming traffic, but you cannot see pedestrians using the cross walk without moving your body.
Example:
|..|..\/ ..|....|
|x| .\/ ..|....|
|x|.......|....|
|x|.......| A |
|..|.......| /\ |
Key:
x=Blind Spot
\/= Other Visible Cars
A= you turning left
.= spacers (so the map looks right)
Before I got my Caliber I drove a 2001 Ford Windstar which had the same blind spot (though not as big) so I was used to moving. As far as other blind spots the Caliber doesn't have any others (at my height at least). When backing up I'm able to see out all the Windows and know where everything is around me. I especially like that when I look out the rear window I know that is the end of the car.
I agree with you about the CVT transmission (though the OP is looking at a standard which won't have the CVT). I didn't like it at first, but once get used to it, you'll come to really like it. The main reason I like it is because of the fuel it saves me. In certain situations, when going up a hill if I keep my foot steady the RPMs will go down as it switches to a different ratio and the speed will actually increase. Of course this doesn't always happen, and if going up a particularly steep hill you will have to give it more gas to make it.
My SXT came with cruise control which does not really use the CVT properly. If cruise is on and I go up a hill, the engine will rev higher to maintain the speed instead of letting the transmission do the work. Thats the only thing I still don't like about he CVT.
Also by recommending Hyundai to the OP won't get around the CVT issue. The Caliber uses the same exact CVT transmission as the Hyundai accent. Hyundai actually invented it.
My brother has a 2008 Hyundai Accent (he got it about 3 weeks before I got my Caliber) and he really likes it. It has a lot of room for the front passengers, but the people in the back seat are squished in if the seats aren't moved forward. There is also little cargo room as the car is so short. If I needed a second car that was cheap and reliable, I would buy an Accent.
As in when you're taking a left hand turn you can see oncoming traffic, but you cannot see pedestrians using the cross walk without moving your body.
Example:
|..|..\/ ..|....|
|x| .\/ ..|....|
|x|.......|....|
|x|.......| A |
|..|.......| /\ |
Key:
x=Blind Spot
\/= Other Visible Cars
A= you turning left
.= spacers (so the map looks right)
Before I got my Caliber I drove a 2001 Ford Windstar which had the same blind spot (though not as big) so I was used to moving. As far as other blind spots the Caliber doesn't have any others (at my height at least). When backing up I'm able to see out all the Windows and know where everything is around me. I especially like that when I look out the rear window I know that is the end of the car.
I agree with you about the CVT transmission (though the OP is looking at a standard which won't have the CVT). I didn't like it at first, but once get used to it, you'll come to really like it. The main reason I like it is because of the fuel it saves me. In certain situations, when going up a hill if I keep my foot steady the RPMs will go down as it switches to a different ratio and the speed will actually increase. Of course this doesn't always happen, and if going up a particularly steep hill you will have to give it more gas to make it.
My SXT came with cruise control which does not really use the CVT properly. If cruise is on and I go up a hill, the engine will rev higher to maintain the speed instead of letting the transmission do the work. Thats the only thing I still don't like about he CVT.
Also by recommending Hyundai to the OP won't get around the CVT issue. The Caliber uses the same exact CVT transmission as the Hyundai accent. Hyundai actually invented it.
My brother has a 2008 Hyundai Accent (he got it about 3 weeks before I got my Caliber) and he really likes it. It has a lot of room for the front passengers, but the people in the back seat are squished in if the seats aren't moved forward. There is also little cargo room as the car is so short. If I needed a second car that was cheap and reliable, I would buy an Accent.