I think yes. Considering it works even with dead battery, it means that faceid/touchid isnt required. i hope there will be an option to disable this "unauthenticated" access method. a keyfob its something that stays all time in the pocket, unless you're one of those swanks that take it out at every occasion in order to let everyone how cool is your car. phone, on the other side, stays most times outside pocket. chances of leave it on the table or taxi are high....
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Car Keys: A Feature That Lets You Unlock a Car With Your iPhone or Apple Watch
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I think yes. Considering it works even with dead battery, it means that faceid/touchid isnt required. i hope there will be an option to disable this "unauthenticated" access method. a keyfob its something that stays all time in the pocket, unless you're one of those swanks that take it out at every occasion in order to let everyone how cool is your car. phone, on the other side, stays most times outside pocket. chances of leave it on the table or taxi are high....
Or a key fob has been left in a pants pocket and washed. New ones cost upwards of $300.
You get 2 key fobs when purchasing a new car. If you have 3 people who use the car, one can open it by phone. Perfect.
How would you leave your keys at home? if you don't have the key Fob you can't start your car
I switched to Android because I got tired of Apple telling me what's best for me. And made the mistake of thinking it might be time to switch back, but probably not, Apple is the same Apple. Too bad. Google isn't much better, but Google is snooping on you even if you're all Apple. So at least I cut out 1 data miner.
It was sarcastic
, the point of using your phone to start your car is that you don't need to bring a car key with you at all. Wallet is replaced with Apple wallet (and Apple Pay), and car key is replaced with CarKey. Then in the future, all features are accessible with just the Apple watch alone.
This is the main question I would use to counter people saying they wouldn't also at least carry their fob. Same with AP. There's no way I would even not have at least once physical card for backup. Murphy would sure as heck make sure AP would fail when I was shopping for an hour and have a cart full of stuff.
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Yea you technically don't need the original items, but there's no way I wouldn't carry them for backup. That would be the exact time AP/CP would fail.It was sarcastic
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True and even if you could have it disable once you mark the device as lost/stolen, how will that work if it is dead, or will lost mode also work within so much time of death?
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- Yes. this may be more secure until it isn't. The fobs were secure when they first came out too. Just like our OS's are secure until the next security issue. To me, this is not an issue, I can't live my life in fear worrying about things like that.
- It takes a minute and $3 every couple of years to replace my fob's battery. It will cost me a thousand dollars to replace my phone if it accidentally slips out of my hands when I'm juggling holding stuff and trying to take my phone out of my pocket so that I can wave it around.
- Actually, my fob of 4 years old already does most of that. The fobs are uniquely coded so that my wife's presets (seats, mirrors, etc...) adjust as soon as the door handle is grabbed. I also have an App on my phone that has many options.
Don't get me wrong. I do want this, but not what they are implementing in the 2.0 spec. To gain a few niche features that I will use a couple times of the year at the cost of losing the ability to not take anything out of my pocket which I do several times a day, does not cut it for me. I will not take that trade off. The 3.0 spec should be what is presented to car makers today.
I say this because the car industry is generally slow at adding tech. It doesn't matter if the 3.0 spec is issued a year from now. The way car manufacturers work is they design a new generation of a model every 5 to 10 years. At the time of design, they sit down and choose new features. If Spec 2 is out, they may choose that or they go we didn't even have spec 1 in this model, lets stick with Spec 1 that already has the kinks out to avoid warranty issues. If its something that they think will sell cars "which this is not a deciding issue to consumers" they may refresh a feature mid model cycle, otherwise, 5 to 10 years later, you may see spec 2 or spec 3 implemented. In other words giving car manufactures a sub par option is bad. They should have skipped 2 and gone right to 3.
Yea if I didn't want to remote start, I could never touch my fob once it is in my pocket coming out to our car.
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Yea I'm hoping rental places will be more aggressive about that than removing people's phones for BT music. Or just give them a way to block it. Especially since you can't track anything.
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Now playing "Magic" by the Cars.
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Now I was thinking more, and I hope they make it so when the phone is dead, you can only unlock the car. Hopefully, everyone has a way to charge in their cars, so once the phone is alive again, you need to authenticate to start it.
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“i can’t live my life in fear” sounds like you’re excusing it.
Assuming you’re home with the batteries in hand already. Some of the time you probably have to go out and buy the battery. Other times, you’re not likely home with the tools and battery. The phone simply needs to be charged (also works in low battery express mode where your phone shuts off at 0% but NFC still works).
You’re not paying “a thousand dollars” just for a phone key. You’re paying a thousands for a new phone that you need for a million other things. I mean, if you lose your keyfob, you’re paying $100-$400 just for a new fob. CarKey is free.
I’ve broken my keyfob far more by accidentally leaving it in my pants (and therefore, in the washer) than I’ve dropped my phone.
You’re not making a good point here.
Which you had to buy extra hundred dollar keyfobs to do. CarKey is free and can create many profiles.
They mentioned 2.0 lays the groundwork for 3.0. It sounds like they couldn’t just introduce 3.0 as the first version.
Is this maybe the reason all the Ford Fobs I've even had seem to have crazy short range. My ex had a Honda, and you could lock it on the other side of the building from the parking lot with the building in the way. And is it safer then to never actually use the buttons on the Fob and just rely on the proximity unlock and start.
Not sure, never owned a Ford. first i've heard of it, but that would make sense if they did that.
Wow dude. I don't think you are understanding me and in the end it really doesn't matter. For "ME", I am not prepared to give up the convenience of not taking my phone out of my pocket for a few niche features you gain. Now back to the defending the butchering of my points
I didn't excuse security. First off you are making a bold assumption that carkey is and will remain unhackable. I am saying that as long as there are criminals, all devices, including CarKey will have security issues. A fob or carkey's security is not something that I would base a car purchase on. If someone wants to break into my car so bad they'll just break the window.
As I mentioned if my fob battery unlikely died on me every few years because I ignored the low battery warning, I can open up my car's phone app and remote start my car so it can warm it up or cool it off nicely before I push the unlock button to get in. What happens when your phone battery dies because you forgot to charge it but you still need to be out and about for 5 hours. You can't even call anyone with another key to help you. I am not even arguing this point because as I said, I want to stop carrying my fob too but not at the expense of having to pull out my phone each time I want to unlock the doors or start my car. I am just responding to your ridiculous once in a life time hypothetical situations. Redundancy of two devices beats carkey hands down so you lose that point for sure.
I did not say that I am paying a thousand dollars for a phone just to be a phone key. You brought up the cost of me having to pay for a $3 battery every few years. My response to that is that when it comes to cost, a dollar a year to act as an insurance for my phone is way more feasible. When I go to my car now, my phone stays nice and safe in my pocket. No chance of it getting broken. With CarKey 2.0. I have to take my phone out, sometimes, with while carrying other things in my hand. The chance of breaking your phone, just increased dramatically. If it gets dropped just once, that dollar per year for battery usage starts looking a lot better, and now a thousand dollars does essentially go towards buying a phone to act as a key.
Now, we are talking about throwing the fob in the washer. What can I say, don't do that but its no different then me telling you not to put your phone through the washer either. If you don't check your pockets when doing laundry, you have bigger issues that I can't help you with.
These are all ridiculous points that you are bringing up to try and convince me that taking my phone out and waving it at my car is better than a fob in my pocket that requires no interaction. If you feel its better, great, you go ahead and make your car buying purchase based on that. For me, I'll wait until I get something that improves on my current experience, which is spec 3.0.
Are you crazy or what? An Android app that's phenomenal? That's Impossible! Don't say it in this forum, they'll eat you alive. Poor guys, so many are still at the Android = rubbish landmark. Can never move from there, too difficult. Thanks for posting this, I mean it. And yes, I've been using Apple products since 1981, that's almost forty years. And I'm also a happy Android phone owner. Oh ****, I've said it. They'll eat me too. Bye bye world...
Actually Tesla have NFC in the door pillar for unlocking and on the centre console for authentication. So as long as you have the Tesla "credit card" in your wallet then a dead phone means you simply tap the card to unlock the door and tap the card to start the car. Worse case call your wife and have her open the app and unlock/start the car, if you're desperate jump on any Internet computer and login to your account to do it, or even call Tesla if things got that bad.
So CarKey would still be useful because the NFC in the phone could be used as a fallback option. To heck with using it NFC on a daily basis though - it is fantastic walking up to to you car and simply getting in and driving away, or simply getting out and walking away.
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I used to think so, but to be honest it is really weird needing a keyfob to get in or lock our Jeep... but then I'm big on home automation so it's a natural fit that my Tesla does things for me automagically just like everything in my home. Turning on lights as I walk down a corridor for example seems like an odd thing to me
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I think you make a great point here. If 2.0 requires you to actually take your phone out of your pocket, then even Express Mode is not a replacement for the key fob as I had thought. Assuming you have a CarKey compatible car in the near future, then those other use cases are free and can be of value if needed, even if infrequently. But, yeah, without the stay in pocket 3.0 behavior, I'm still taking my key fob everywhere, it's just too convenient.
You're not giving good counter points for the obvious benefits of CarKey. That's what I'm getting at.
I never said CarKey will be unhackable. I'm saying it's more secure than a keyfob. It's a definite plus.
By repeating the fob's signal, that someone could also start the car and drive. That's no good.
Funny you mentioned 5 hours. iPhone has a power reserve after the phone shuts off for up to 5 hours for NFC: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209495
And it's weird you're accusing me of a ridiculous hypothetical scenario when you mention a scenario of being without a charger for 5 hours after waking up to a low iPhone battery. That scenario will never happen to me or a lot of people. I wake up, I have a charger at home, in my car, where I work, my coffee shop, gym treadmills have a usb port, etc... so what scenario would I be in where I will be without charge for 5 straight hours after waking up? And that's assuming I wake up to a 0% charge which has never happened in my life. I've woken up to 15% before which then I would turn on Low Battery mode and then get in my car to let it charge while I drive.
So no, I don't lose that point.
I already mentioned I forget my keyfob in my pants more than I've ever dropped a phone. I've had a keyfob broken due to leaving it in the washer (had left it in the washer a few times). Increased chance of dropping a phone is a ridiculous hypothetical situation you mentioned earlier.
Or telling me to not drop my phone when I use to unlock the car, right? Or do you want me to drop my phone to prove your point?
It's weird that you consider my points ridiculous, when you give ridiculous scenarios yourself.
LOL. My original and only point was that I prefer to have a fob in my pocket that requires no interaction over pulling out my phone and waving it at my car. That's it... You then started coming back at me with all these silly scenario's like what if your battery runs out in your fob while your stranded in no where land, What if you put your fob through the wash, what if someone is sitting outside your door trying to copy your fob signal. etc.... I was waiting for something in regards to alien abductions but you didn't go there yet. You feel that those are all more plausible than the increased risk of dropping your phone from during cold or rainy weather while carrying a few bags of groceries and rushing to get in the car. Yeah okay... you win. You convinced me and made this a very entertaining thread. As soon as the first car comes out with CarKey 2.0, I'll be standing in line waving my phone. There, are you happy now.
Being stranded for 5 hours with no access to charger after waking up to a 0% battery on an iPhone is probably the silliest scenario here actually. Are you going to walk in the desert after waking up? You have far bigger problems if so.
Anyways it sounds like we're done here so I won't be reading anymore from you.
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Just wave your hand with the Apple Watch and it unlocks. Phone stays in pocket the entire time and you never need to carry something extra in your pocket.
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just use Apple Watch.
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I use this quite a bit. When I go for a run, I leave bulky fob hidden in car and use Apple Watch for entry. And during these contactless days, I leave purse in car. I can access grocery list via Watch, pay for things then unlock car all without bringing anything in.
anyway... it can be a good solution for giving temporary car access to someone, but for primary user, "comfort" keyfob remains the best solution as it works without even take it out of the pocket. in fact the best should be a device that works as standard "low energy" comfort key without any buttons. something very small that you can put in a ring or bracelet. something similar to the nfc stickers credit cards... ehm dont know the word in english. here, you can request from bank a very small sticker "credit card" that have only an nfc chip inside, a duplicate of the original credit card. ok, the keyfob will require energy, but i think that a 1,5v battery, like those in quartz watches will be enough
Assuming one has the Apple Watch. Ideally, I would only need my phone in my pocket and nothing else for CarKey to work. If that's a 3.0 feature, that's when I can leave my key fob at home, but not before.
Next Apple can add driving controls next. For better control of your car, support for either the Xbox or Playstation controller using bluetooth.