This is not a personal attack or slinging mud BUT Please tell me that you're about 10 years old or else joking. That is by far the silliest message in this thread.
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Carl Icahn Increases Apple Stake to $2.5 Billion, Requests Immediate $150 Billion Stock Buyback
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This is not a personal attack or slinging mud BUT Please tell me that you're about 10 years old or else joking. That is by far the silliest message in this thread.
Thanks.
I guess then a key question is how long is the period Icahn is figuring to pay back the debt & interest and what is the projected profit in that period.
It's the difference between slow and steady and pump and dump. Icahn adds zero long term value to the company. Do you think that Apple got to where it is today by listening to some Wall Street Schumks out to make a quick buck? I think Apple has a long term strategy and already buys the best advice it can get and people like Icahn with their investment track record are just an annoyance best left ignored.
He's a businessman with a fiduciary responsibility to his shareholders. Nothing wrong with recommending a course of action that serves shareholders' and his company's interests.
I'm not into Icahn's plan though because Apple will have to take on more debt.
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It depends on the length of the buyback period. I believe the current program is over three years. It would take at least that much longer to fully implement the even larger buyback plan promoted by Icahn. In fact if AAPL rises at 5-10% per year over the next few years, then that $150 billion isn't going to go nearly as far he has calculated, and the number of outstanding shares not reduced as much.
Just because someone has their own motives doesn't mean that their advice isn't sound. Having said that, I don't agree with the aggressive proposal from Icahn and I can tell you now, there is no way that Tim Cook is going to follow it. But Icahn''s remarks will get people thinking about the issue.
Someone at Apple needs to explain to shareholders why it is in their interest for Apple to hold onto this cash or they need to put it to use either by making purchases or buying back stock.
Icahn's proposal is the most extreme and would probably give the biggest stock jump, at least in the shorter term. But, there is a more moderate approach between Apple's massive cash stack and Icahn's buy stock using all your cash plus debt.
If Apple can't justify hanging on to the money, the cries are only going to get louder and from more people.
Anyone else worried what this guys goign to do?
Of course he wants an "immediate" $150 billion buyback of its stock", he now holds 2.5 billion!
Of course he wants an "immediate" $150 billion buyback of its stock", he now holds 2.5 billion!
This Carl guy will be the end of Apple if he has his ways.
What makes you think a stock buyback is a bad idea?
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I thought he did issue dividends at some point. I looked this up, and it seems like his reasoning was that it's just a waste of company funds.
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What did you buy at? It's been very healthy in a time frame of a few months.
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I wish they could take his money and throw it back at him the way Steve threw the famous dysfunctional camera during a keynote
"Finally, Icahn notes that he would not participate in the buyback he proposes, indicating that there "nothing short term about [his] intentions" as he attempts to convince Apple and his investors that he is not simply pushing an agenda serving his own immediate interests without regard for the company's long-term health."
"Not participate"? Does that mean "not sell" or what?
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Apple is a publicly traded company. Any idea what that means
"Not participate"? Does that mean "not sell" or what?
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EVER, trust a banker.
Apple is an engineering company, not an investment company. Stay to your roots, DO NOT give way to the whims of bankers and investment companies. They're only in it for the money!!
Far , far removed from the values that Apple (publicly) announces. YOU should not be in it for the money (sure make a profit is okay to sustain a healthy company) but to make the best products, for a better world.
To make someone stupid rich beyond comprehension is NOT conductive to a better world, it only feeds the few, and does nothing for the many.
STICK TO YOUR ROOTS! INNOVATE! Only those who cannot do that, try to make money with financial tricks and mechanisms.
The only true way of making a profit is by selling a product, not by endlessly manipulating numbers.
Apple doesn't need investors, it has plenty of cash to be it's own!
Apple is a publicly traded company. Any idea what that means
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Had a cordial dinner with Tim last night. We pushed hard for a 150 billion buyback. We decided to continue dialogue in about three weeks. - Icahn
What benefit would this be to the shareholders?
What benefit would this be to the shareholders?
I love how so many people on here think they are smarter than this guy and also that they are smart enough to be advising Tim Cook.
This guy is a BILLIONAIRE, you think *you* know better than him?!
Amazing.
I hate when people like YOU say leave him alone because he knows better. This dude knows very well how to look out for HIMELF not how to look after APPLE. Assuming the rich know what they're doing and will look out for you is the NUMBER ONE REASON for the US financial collapse.
There is a legitimate reason to buy back stocks, but imagine a guy comes in and says BORROW 150 BILLION DOLLARS then use that to buy back stocks so that the value of my holdings increase by 30% but don't worry I'm sure it'll be good for you in the long run, and DONT WAIT RIGHT NOW IS THE PERFECT TIME ITS NOT TOO LATE. Imagine the that... Apple takes out a loan so he can earn a better return F@&$ that!!!!
I may not be smarter than this guy, or smart enough to advise Tim Cook, but I AM smart enough to spot a self serving slime ball.
You and the other guy have restored my sanity after reading all the other comments. By the way, if he was trying to make Apple do anything obviously stupid long-term, wouldn't all the long-term investors on the board prevent it?
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I love how so many people on here think they are smarter than this guy and also that they are smart enough to be advising Tim Cook.
This guy is a BILLIONAIRE, you think *you* know better than him?!
Amazing.
This is about trust, not intelligence. Maybe they realize that Adolf Hitler may have been a very smart person. Just because someone is smart doesn't mean you should trust him. Not that I'm saying we shouldn't trust this guy; I don't see anything wrong with his reasoning behind the buyback, but I'm not an expert.
What does Icahn care how Apple pays back the debt? If he got his way, he'd sell the stock when it peaked and leave Apple holding the bag.
“Had a cordial dinner with Tim last night. We pushed hard for a 150 billion buyback. We decided to continue dialogue in about three weeks.” - Icahn
What benefit would this be to the shareholders?
Apple's market cap won't decrease if there is a massive buyback. Instead of 908 million shares worth 483 billion, there will be 635 million shares worth 483 billion. Each individual share would be worth about 33% more. Specifically, Icahn's 2.5 billion investment would be worth around 800 million more.
Make 800 million for doing nothing. The guy is a leach.
Tim's a business man too. So I'm sure that he and a bunch of advisors/ board members/ larger stakeholders have done the math as well. They can't stop Icahn from buying shares, but if they're not smart enough to simply smile and nod, and ignore everything else Icahn says, then Apple deserves whatever it gets.
The idea is that hopefully, holding it until the peak would mean holding it for a long time.
Makes $800 million for having $2.5 billion to invest. Smaller investors would enjoy proportional profits. Except for people who don't enjoy profits.
Well...
Believe me, I am the LAST guy to defend the '1% of the 1%' crowd but, this buyback will profit not only him but ALL shareholders who stay the course, but, obviously to a significantly lesser degree. And the bulk of those buyback shares will come from institutional investors anyway.
Apple is in business to make a profit...and, like virtually every other Fortune 50 company, this is one of Apple's top 5 corporate objectives, stated or implied. So slamming Icahn for this seems petty. He, like Time Cook, Steve Jobs etc are ALL capitalists to one degree or another. That may pain some on this board to hear that but it's the truth. Maybe Steve and Tim were/are not consumed with the concept of just making money but, they both had to answer to shareholders, hence the dinner with Icahn...and that is the only meeting that we are all aware of with a major investor. Does Tim hear from all of the institutional investors on ways they think Apple should improve EPS? You bet your aasss. We just don't hear about it.
Now, I'd be interested in hearing from other Apple shareholders like me who have a very modest holding in Apple and why they think this is such a terrible thing.
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And just and FYI...here the TOP investors holding and worth as of June 2013
Vanguard Group, Inc. (The) 44,504,335 worth $17,647,303,957
State Street Corporation 37,297,366 worth $14,789,524,539
FMR, LLC 31,023,222 worth $12,301,638,219
BlackRock Institutional Trust Company, N.A. 25,378,225 worth $10,063,227,559
Northern Trust Corporation 13,976,334 worth $5,542,035,721
Invesco Ltd. 12,349,486 worth $4,896,941,683
Bank of New York Mellon Corporation 12,372,947 worth $4,906,244,673
Goldman Sachs Group, Inc. 10,518,358 worth $4,170,844,497
JP Morgan Chase & Company 9,914,780 worth $3,931,507,713
BlackRock Fund Advisors 9,014,941 worth $3,574,694,554
Believe me, I am the LAST guy to defend the '1% of the 1%' crowd but, this buyback will profit not only him but ALL shareholders who stay the course, but, obviously to a significantly lesser degree. And the bulk of those buyback shares will come from institutional investors anyway.
Apple is in business to make a profit...and, like virtually every other Fortune 50 company, this is one of Apple's top 5 corporate objectives, stated or implied. So slamming Icahn for this seems petty. He, like Time Cook, Steve Jobs etc are ALL capitalists to one degree or another. That may pain some on this board to hear that but it's the truth. Maybe Steve and Tim were/are not consumed with the concept of just making money but, they both had to answer to shareholders, hence the dinner with Icahn...and that is the only meeting that we are all aware of with a major investor. Does Tim hear from all of the institutional investors on ways they think Apple should improve EPS? You bet your aasss. We just don't hear about it.
Now, I'd be interested in hearing from other Apple shareholders like me who have a very modest holding in Apple and why they think this is such a terrible thing.
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And just and FYI...here the TOP investors holding and worth as of June 2013
Vanguard Group, Inc. (The) 44,504,335 worth $17,647,303,957
State Street Corporation 37,297,366 worth $14,789,524,539
FMR, LLC 31,023,222 worth $12,301,638,219
BlackRock Institutional Trust Company, N.A. 25,378,225 worth $10,063,227,559
Northern Trust Corporation 13,976,334 worth $5,542,035,721
Invesco Ltd. 12,349,486 worth $4,896,941,683
Bank of New York Mellon Corporation 12,372,947 worth $4,906,244,673
Goldman Sachs Group, Inc. 10,518,358 worth $4,170,844,497
JP Morgan Chase & Company 9,914,780 worth $3,931,507,713
BlackRock Fund Advisors 9,014,941 worth $3,574,694,554
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Yes, of course the investors would enjoy profits. I guess I kind of implied that Icahn would be the only one to reap the benefits of a massive buyback, although that wasn't my intention.
Still, the cash has to come from somewhere. It either comes out of the war chest, and ties up Apple's cash on hand currently used for contracts & manufacturing capabilities, or it saddles Apple with a huge amount of debt. Neither position is good for long-term stakeholders, like mutual funds and Apple executives.
Given Icahn's previous dealings, I would fully expect him to cash out before the proverbial S--- hits the fan. Thus, my post that he would stand to make a lot of money before cashing out.
I've been in AAPL since 1997 and I will cash out eventually too. The idea is to make as much money as possible before then. Really. Call me a leech if you must.
I wouldn't expect Apple to take on Icahn's plan entirely, but it's telling that they have already done so in part with the first borrow-to-buyback plan currently underway. The concept is to not cut into the cash mountain very much but instead to borrow (at today's ultra-low interest rates) and pay it back via future cash flows. The debt is pretty short-term. I believe the longest bonds are two years. Even under Icahn's highly aggressive buyback proposal, Apple has as much cash in its larder after the buyback as before. Unless the business fails, of course.