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Carl Icahn Increases Apple Stake to $2.5 Billion, Requests Immediate $150 Billion Stock Buyback
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the guy is definitely not playing in Bill Gates' league
the world will remember Gates as a billionnaire doing good with his fortune
while Icahn will always be remembered as the douchebag who ruined many companies to make his fortune
True up to a point. The interest on the bonds would have to be paid out of domestic cash flow, which should not be a problem. Also, earnings don't actually get taxed a "second time" when they are repatriated. Apple gets full credit for foreign taxes paid. But as we have learned recently, much of their foreign earnings are funneled through tax havens, so a lot of their non-domestic earnings are taxed barely at all. So repatriating earnings isn't being taxed twice, it's being taxed for the first time.
Maybe that's what's wrong with the country. Everyone wants to buy stuff on credit. Whatever happened to saving up for stuff?
Yes but it is NOT the purpose of running a company such as Apple. As Tim and Co made clear on Tuesday, They are about GREAT products....See the Designed in California video if you still do not understand. Someone should show it to Mr. Icahn, but I do not think he would get the point.
I love how so many people on here think they are smarter than this guy and also that they are smart enough to be advising Tim Cook.
This guy is a BILLIONAIRE, you think *you* know better than him?!
Amazing.
The issue is not about intelligence, it's about intentions.
Icahn, please go bother Google with your get richer quick schemes instead. Or better yet, Facebook. You're the human equivalent of a virus, damaging the host and moving on to another.
Apple should be putting that $150B into R&D and buying companies that can help it grow, innovative, and improve.
Apple should be putting that $150B into R&D and buying companies that can help it grow, innovative, and improve.
Nobody is questioning his knowledge...just his motives.
He's well known to manipulate things in his (and his investors) favor. He cares nothing about the actual companies, just his bottom line. THAT is a well known fact.
So while his 'advice' may be good for people who want a short term return, it's not good for people who invest in a company because they believe in the company.
So, depending on your goal...anyone here IS qualified to give out advise.
He's well known to manipulate things in his (and his investors) favor. He cares nothing about the actual companies, just his bottom line. THAT is a well known fact.
So while his 'advice' may be good for people who want a short term return, it's not good for people who invest in a company because they believe in the company.
So, depending on your goal...anyone here IS qualified to give out advise.
iKhan is 77 years old. You can't blame him for not being willing to to wait for Apple to comply to his demands.
That's what my guess is as to what SJ's plan for the cash pile was.
I'm missing something though - I thought an important part of a leveraged buyback was because it somehow allows Apple to make productive use of their overseas cash hoard without having to repatriate it. Basically, I thought that Apple would borrow the money in the US to fund the buyback, and use the overseas money to pay back the loan, and that this would be a tax advantage in some way.
Assume the tax rate is 20% to bring it back to the US (meaning the overseas portion has a potential 20% liability). So if this plan would circumvent that, plus assuming the stock is undervalued by 20% (for the sake of argument), wouldn't this mean stockholders could be looking at a 40% gain with no actual risk involved? The cash would still be in the bank overseas, paying off a ridiculously low interest rate loan (secured against the overseas cash pile), and the loan amount used to buyback shares.
Seems win-win to me? Please point out the flaws/errors in the above explanation...
Simply put, a world-class criminal speculator that should be consigned to the dustbin (or better yet, latrine) of history.
Apple does NOT need debt, it did NOT need dividends, it should NOT cater to vulture cabals. Just innovate like it has done over the last ten years with prudent financial management.
Alas, SJ is dead...however, other people have accepted to eat some demonic dinner with that scum.
If I can borrow money, use that money to make more money than I would have by "saving up for stuff" it's in my best interest to do so.
The fact that you're comparing a multibillion dollar stock buy back to people's household credit card debt is laughable.
Tax advantage, sure.
If you want to call it that. It's a good way to get slapped with a huge fine from the IRS. Apple is currently in a grey area with how they filter offshore earnings. What you are suggesting is illegal.In reality, the cash reserves are strategic for operations and acquisitions, which was never Steve's area of expertise, it was Tim's.
$150 Bn can buy a lot of exclusive manufacturing and start-up/ tooling costs.
I'm surprised the reactions to this are so negative. Icahn may or may not be a good guy, but what does that have to do with his idea? I've thought for a long time that they should buy back more. They have a HUGE pile of cash, the stock is undervalued, and it shows faith in the company and its direction. $150b might be a bit much, but I don't see where the idea is bad.
Where does it say that I'm not allowed to speculate at the same level as someone else because my cash flow doesn't measure up? This isn't a matter of brain over braun. It's a matter of money over intellect. Icahn is thinking with his wallet. Nothing more. He's thinking only of himself. He wasn't thinking of Netflix. He was thinking of his own money. He wasn't thinking about Yahoo! He was just looking to line his own pockets. And, again, he's not thinking about Apple. He's thinking that the .5% stake of his, allows him the opportunity to put himself center stage. Get in line, buddy. You may be able to play those games with Netflix and Yahoo!, but you've bitten off more than you can chew here.
This train doesn't stop its wheels just because some jackass pulls a cord.
Good thread.
The cash hoard is interesting. I always thought it was accumulated because of Job's insecurities and that now that it is there and Jobs is not, Apple has a lot of options.
The issues Apple faces are:
1. The cash hoard and the Icahns of the world. He isn't the only one.
2. Overseas production and the politics of that.
3. Tax avoidance schemes.
4. Pollution issues overseas.
These are issues that Apple should control on their terms before somebody else does it for them.
5. Apple's plans for a download world are almost entirely dependent on the availability of bandwidth and this is controlled by others. Apple could buy a carrier and/or satellite system to ensure that Apple customers had fast and accessible connections.
The cash hoard can deal with all of these issues. Money can buy you love (or in the words of the immortal Al Bundy, rent it...).
The cash hoard is interesting. I always thought it was accumulated because of Job's insecurities and that now that it is there and Jobs is not, Apple has a lot of options.
The issues Apple faces are:
1. The cash hoard and the Icahns of the world. He isn't the only one.
2. Overseas production and the politics of that.
3. Tax avoidance schemes.
4. Pollution issues overseas.
These are issues that Apple should control on their terms before somebody else does it for them.
5. Apple's plans for a download world are almost entirely dependent on the availability of bandwidth and this is controlled by others. Apple could buy a carrier and/or satellite system to ensure that Apple customers had fast and accessible connections.
The cash hoard can deal with all of these issues. Money can buy you love (or in the words of the immortal Al Bundy, rent it...).
report to SEC
I think the best way to combat Carl Icahn's actions is that long term share holders in Apple should go to the SEC's website and file a complaint. I did that today.
I was going to say we should all go to Carl Icahn's website and post our complaints there, but they didn't put on a way to respond to his posts.
I am a young long term share holder in Apple and don't want to see them take on any debt for either stock buy backs or dividends. I have owned shares since the early 90's. I would rather the company pay taxes on bringing money back into the United States if they want to give it back to us shareholders.
I think the best way to combat Carl Icahn's actions is that long term share holders in Apple should go to the SEC's website and file a complaint. I did that today.
I was going to say we should all go to Carl Icahn's website and post our complaints there, but they didn't put on a way to respond to his posts.
I am a young long term share holder in Apple and don't want to see them take on any debt for either stock buy backs or dividends. I have owned shares since the early 90's. I would rather the company pay taxes on bringing money back into the United States if they want to give it back to us shareholders.
Tim should tell him that if he keeps pestering then they will go back to the good old Steve Jobs days of NO payouts for shareholders at all.
either that or start the share buyout policy with just this guys shares..
either that or start the share buyout policy with just this guys shares..
Ichan is a total douchebag. The very ideal of a corporate raider. Read what he did to TWA. I hate everything he stands for. He produces nothing, makes nothing, he simply uses his money to bully others. A worthless, horrid man.