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Carl Icahn Posts Response to Apple On Proxy Proposal for Share Buyback, Buys $500 Million More in Stock

mozumder said:
That's just one option for verticals. I personally think, with net-neutrality going away, that Apple will have to build their own networks to support their devices.
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I don't know if that's a good enough reason to go all in on creating their own network. Especially since the net neutrality issue may so easily be remedied by a law passed by Congress.

There's also content production. That could be very expensive proposition as well, anything from gaming to television to movies to music. If they want a strong hand at Apple TV, then they really need to produce their own content, the way Netflix does.
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Again, changing their business model to the extent that would cost billions upon billions of dollars is not what makes Apple Apple. They have been successful because they stick to a small number of products/services that they do well.
 
Nunyabinez said:
And just for the record, I think Icahn is a piece of work and really dislike most of what he has done, but that doesn't make him wrong.
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This.

giantfan1224 said:
There seems to be a lot of knee-jerk reactions every time an MR article includes Icahn in the title. Makes it difficult for a lot of people to weigh the merits of anything he has to say. Even though a lot of disdain felt for the man may be warranted, as an AAPL shareholder I believe him to be dead right on this matter.
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And this.

The comments in these many threads are virtually all depressingly knee-jerk. I apologize to anyone who might feel offended by my being short with them, but it is seriously frustrating to those of us who actually have something at stake here, and have taken the trouble to understand the issues, to be constantly dealing with repetitive, nasty, uninformed, and insulting comments.

Seriously, I don't care about how the guy looks. I don't care about his history (which I know all about already), how you want to punch him out, and I sure don't want to hear comments about his religion (really, MR, you going to allow that?). If you aren't going to discuss the facts and merits of the man's proposal, then what's the point?
 
giantfan1224 said:
You make it sound so personal. He's in it for the money, just like every other shareholder of AAPL.

-seems logical that it's about the money, but for completeness he's clearly not like the average shareholder of Apple


Look, I've read the several threads that have been posted to MacRumors on this topic. I'm not an expert about business or their responsibility to share holders. But, I do wonder about a few things.

It seems shortsighted to think that what is best for investors now is always best for the company in the future. If these ideas diverge what choice is made?

I think it is a fair characterization that technology companies are always searching for the next great invention or revolutionary idea. Fortune seems to change fast in the tech world. A cash reserve seems appropriate when a company (or person) knows that their circumstance can change quickly. How much should Apple have? The answer won't be known until it happens. (Personally, I hope the answer is zero.) Also, cash reserves gives lots of options. What options? Well, the buyback for one. (Ironically, it exists because of the reserve.) Other options are all basically the same end, grow the company. (new technologies, new sectors, by acquisitions or research)

If the money keeps coming into Apple, then the reserve (likely larger) will be there for a buyback in the future. At that time, it might be a better deal.


The last several years, SAS has been rated a top company to work for. It seems the CEO takes very good care of his employees. Apple could use some of the reserve to increase employee compensation. I'm certain that if there is so much money in reserves that it is irresponsible to not have a buy back, then there could be healthy raises for Apple's employees.

Of course, SAS is a private company…so no shareholders to deal with.
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MacRumors said:
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kerrikins said:
All you have contributed to this thread so far is a repetition of 'read the letter' and a reference to 'past threads' as though on a forum everyone is supposed to go and read all past threads on a subject before responding to a new article.
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I think it's more the idea that someone should understand the basic facts before spouting off an opinion. You do not have the requisite financial background to do so - that much is clear.


You're also missing a key point that people are saying: as a shareholder who stands to gain SO MUCH
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Stop the presses! The partial owner of a company (whose ownership is expressed, by the way, through the same securities almost every retail investor holds as well) wants said company to increase in value?!

The main problem the informed posters have with this topic that resurfaces every couple weeks is that people talk about concepts they know nothing about without feeling the slightest bit of discomfort about that fact. I work in finance - I understand capital structures and all this good stuff, yet you won't find me on a mountain biking forum making tons of assertions that should be grounded in fact but are instead informed by prejudice and class-envy/hate. I just don't do it because I know I won't be able to add anything useful. So WHY do people insist on doing exactly that about financial or economic matters?

I am happy to discuss with an informed observer/stockholder about whether Apple should return cash to shareholders. The frustration doesn't come with mere disagreement, I promise. It's just clear that 90% of the people here are against an enlarged buyback for nonsensical reasons that simply wouldn't be peddled by someone familiar with financial transactions. It's hard to argue with these people and both myself and a couple other notable posters here have spent ample time in past threads (and this thread) trying to correct misinformation and educating people about the topics they so can have an informed opinion - even if it disagrees with our conclusion. Unfortunately people are more interested in typing vile and hateful comments about someone they don't know (and whose tactics they simply don't understand).
 
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tdar said:
Sure Carl....Apple was created just for you, so that you might get even richer. None of the other 7 billion people on this planet have any use for it. It all about YOU.


Seems to be what is wrong with our world today.....
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It's called "capitalism" breh.
 
SchneiderMan said:
Well Google did purchase Motorola, and now Nest. I don't see Apple doing any groundbreaking acquisitions.
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Apple is spending a lot of money constantly. The cash is not only spent on acquisitions. They are building data centers, their new Campus 2.0, etc.

And Google, even though they purchased Motorola and now Nest, has a growing cashpile as well.
 
I wonder how people would react to this proposal had it been presented by Warren Buffett.
 
I like Carl, The real problem is that his buyback proposal will do little to curb the stigma / black cloud over Apple shares. If anything the publicity he's bringing will do more to help the price than a massive buyback, and i think Carl knows that. Afterall Apple has already been doing it's own massive buyback over the last year, 30 billion? doesn't seem to have done much.
 
this is probably the reason why i am not a millionaire but heck if i had $500m let alone $3b lying around the house i'd be sipping margaritas somewhere in the pacific ocean... not concerning myself with apple's share price, buybacks or twitter.


jeez after all, what can this man do with one more billion in his account that he can't do now?
 
Troneas said:
this is probably the reason why i am not a millionaire but heck if i had $500m let alone $3b lying around the house i'd be sipping margaritas somewhere in the pacific ocean... not concerning myself with apple's share price, buybacks or twitter.


jeez after all, what can this man do with one more billion in his account that he can't do now?
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Especially at Icahn's age. No pockets in a casket. For him it is probably part of the game. Who knows?
 
He's only looking out for himself.

Getting Apple to trade universal useful cash for fewer shares and a higher share price accomplishes nothing for the company and its future. It should come as no surprise that Icahn has taken a large enough position in Ebay stock to install two people who will do his bidding on the board of directors. He has said that he wants Ebay to spin off Paypal. Paypal is more profitable to the company than the auction site alone. The guy is only interested in making money for himself.
 
kerrikins said:
Why? He obviously just wants to make money off of the company. This does absolutely zero for the company overall so why the hell would they do it.

Hopefully they sink that cash back into development and obtaining new assets.
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And this is were the differences of opinion flow from. Some believe as you and I do, that the proper thing for the company to do to reward it's shareholders, is to continue to invest in making the best Apple possible and that the rewards will come. Others (and I believe Mr. Icahn would be in this group) believe that this cash is theirs and they want it now. For their own selves. I call that greed and short term thinking. They call it Capitalism.

One thing is clear to me...One should know what they are buying before they buy it. I don't think Mr. Icahn has any idea what he bought here- He clearly does not get Apple or understand it's history. It didn't work out for him at Dell and it's not going to work out at Apple.
 
Daalseth said:
That's not what Carl Icahn is in it for. He wants dollars. He doesn't care how it impacts other investors, the companies he's investing in or even the good of the country. He's driven by greed and only exists to get more.
A truly despicable SOB.
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Like every big investor and major corporation. Greed. Apple exists only to get more. Ditto for Google, Microsoft, Samsung, Exxon, BP, etc etc.
 
IJ Reilly said:
He didn't say that, either.

I stand to gain from a buyback too. Those of us who are stockholders all stand to gain.
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BS. :rolleyes: Icahn's entire opinion is based on the notion that lots of cash is liability rather than a strength. Which of course, is utter nonsense. Most of my Apple stock in an IRA. His scheme has a better chance of doing harm to Apple and my stock value, long before my retirement. I'm guessing everyone at Apple, including Tim Cook and all the executive team feel the same about their AAPL shares as well.

As a long term shareholder, the overall health, sustainability and growth of the company is light years more important to that value that Ichan's highly speculative and risky proposal. If this clown wanted a better return, and is such an investing whiz, where the hell was he when AAPL was at $12? Or $20? Or $120? Answer: corporate raiding and stock opinion manipulation.

It's really interesting how people NOT responsible for the earning and saving of Apple's cash, feel so entitled to suggest how it should be spent. It's not even close to your job, nor expertise. Fact: Tim Cook has way more experience managing and turning that cash into something, and creating value for the company's shareholders than Carl. The amazing part is that he's done it through actual productivity (which also kinda explains why AAPL has grown so well over time). The great thing about having lots of money is that it affords more opportunity and options. This is a way more important asset for a tech company's growth in an extremely volatile industry, than any investor scheme to near-term wiggle stock price in the purely volatile and exclusively reactionary realm of Wall St.

That money gives Apple lots of room to ride out dramatically increasing labor costs in China, any future 3rd party parts supplier hiccups, misguided national (or international) economic policies or trends, etc. Any of these alone is a huge reason to keep that cash, long before any acquisition or future product/market talk ever enters the picture. The fact that you don't see any of this, is proof enough that you are completely wrong and very short-sighted. If you don't trust Apple's ability to leverage their resources for growth by now, then clearly you've had a very comfy hole in the sand for your head.

To summerize:
-Tim Cook, while at Apple, has helped make me a bunch of $$$ on my AAPL.
-Carl Icahn has made me nada, zero, zilch.

Pretty easy choice on where I should invest my trust.

So please educate us on why your opinion (which violates all common sense) should be seriously entertained by anyone? You obviously have some sort of love or respect for Icahn, clearly he has convinced you. Maybe you should explain your amazing insights, rather than just playing net-nanny games about who read what post after post?
 
This guys smile creeps me out.

I think he is just a parasite, I hope Tim Cook and the Board doesn't give into his requests.
 
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