I'd be willing to bet that vanishingly few Apple stock holders have actually invested in the company. Buying stock, other than stock being sold by the company itself, is not 'investing' in the company. It's investing in the companies stock.
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Carl Icahn Posts Response to Apple On Proxy Proposal for Share Buyback, Buys $500 Million More in Stock
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I'd be willing to bet that vanishingly few Apple stock holders have actually invested in the company. Buying stock, other than stock being sold by the company itself, is not 'investing' in the company. It's investing in the companies stock.
I don't get what you mean, on the first part. I've said very directly several times that I'd read the letter, and even quoted it. But as you say, moving on...
I don't see any ethical issues, but if you want to discuss ethics, talk to philosopher. If on the other hand you want to talk about making money, discuss it with someone who knows how it's done.
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Now there's a distinction without a difference!
I agree with you 100% here. At times it feels the accumulation of wealth and ethics are mutually exclusive. There is nothing illegal with this fact but the point still exists.
Or perhaps a difference you don't want to see, or a difference that's too subtle for you to understand.
And don't we all know how he got that way. The man's business acumen is remarkable, but don't be fooled; he is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
They aren't mutually exclusive, just different realms. What I find peculiar is people being in the markets for reasons other than making money, and worse yet, getting on their moral high horse because other people make money by investing. My own moral high horse is that the vast majority of people are doing nothing to prepare themselves for the day when they can, or no longer wish, to work. I hear all kinds of lame excuses from people for being irresponsible about their own futures, and one of them is that the markets are "nothing more than gambling" and another is that a person making money by investing is at best one step below axe murderer. What they are really doing is giving themselves permission to not think about deferring a little gratification.
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Oh, that must be it. Thanks for explaining!
Investors who want to make money - radical
I'm always amused and amazed by the Apple masses who blindly raise the Apple flag of purity. As one who agrees with Carl, I believe buying Apple stock is a "no brainer" and yes I want to make money, but contrary to what others believe, I don't equate a healthy stock price to wrecking the company. As Gordon Gekko would say (and likely Saint Steve would whisper to those who can hear), greed is good.
I'm always amused and amazed by the Apple masses who blindly raise the Apple flag of purity. As one who agrees with Carl, I believe buying Apple stock is a "no brainer" and yes I want to make money, but contrary to what others believe, I don't equate a healthy stock price to wrecking the company. As Gordon Gekko would say (and likely Saint Steve would whisper to those who can hear), greed is good.
I'm being condescending to a multi millionaire?
The guy is a greedy pig, always has been.
Icahn the corporate raider cockroach. A nice pullback in the aapl stock might shake him out of his position.
Depending on his cost basis, average price of his shares. See how much pain/loos he could endure.
Last week could be a good start. Worst week for the market in 19 months.
Depending on his cost basis, average price of his shares. See how much pain/loos he could endure.
Last week could be a good start. Worst week for the market in 19 months.
Its not that people are sickened by "normal" investing. Its that people are sickened by never-ending greed and profit chasing that eventually ruins someones life through outsourcing, job losses, wage reductions, benefit reductions, etc, etc. Thats what gets me anyways. Its NEVER enough pofit, even when it really is. The growth is NEVER enough. Nothing is ever enough. These parasite investors want 100% return on their money every year and want 100% cost reductions every year too. And then some.
The fact that someones livlihood is directly controlled by some big-shot wall streeter is horible and wrong in every regard. I dont care what anyone says - large scale investors are "ax murderers" when it comes to their effect on employees and even smaller investors. Thats what angers people. Not those of us that have 401Ks or small holdings.
If only every company was privately owned..... this crap would stop.
At least ax murderers dont cheat on taxes and use insider deals to screw people. They at least kill you in person. Maybe they are better people than big shot investors after all?
Wow, okay. So axe murderers really are better people than investors? Hard to know how to respond to that, your distinction between large and small being totally arbitrary.
FWIW, if "every company was privately owned" then companies like Apple would never see the light of day. Just so we're clear on that one little thing.
Yeah they would - there are plenty of high-value privately owned companies out there. Its better for employees, thats for sure. You go "public" and suddenly you have to play by diferent rules and have to start pleasing every hedge fund weenie on the planet. Privately owned as in one or a handful of people start the company and slowly build it up.
Not really. A kind of mythology has grown up around what it means to be a public company. Thousands of companies are or become public because this is how they access the equity markets. Even the companies that start with private shareholders (e.g., venture capital) aim towards going public at some point because their private equity holders aren't interested in being full invested forever. And no, going public does not mean the company has to kowtow to anyone. Large stockholders can say or demand whatever they like but board of directors can and usually does totally ignore them. A private company relying on venture capital is much more likely to be in the position of having to respond to investor demands than a public company with hundreds of thousands of stockholders. The only difference is, you don't generally hear about it.