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Carriers Object to Apple's Plans for Built-In iPhone SIM Even as GSMA Moves Forward
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Who needs cell phone companies?
Apple should just start their own cell phone company and do away with carriers completely.
I mean Apple certainly has the money and knowhow...and they know that EVERYONE and their mother will buy an iPhone. So....why not??
What do you say Apple? I would be SO on board!!
Apple should just start their own cell phone company and do away with carriers completely.
I mean Apple certainly has the money and knowhow...and they know that EVERYONE and their mother will buy an iPhone. So....why not??
What do you say Apple? I would be SO on board!!
For those complaining that if your phone dies you can't move the SIM to another phone, there is a simple solution to that problem. With integrated SIMs all that would be required is some authentication procedure before you can do anything. For instance, you, on phone A, sign up for service, and then later down the road your phone dies. Well, on phone B, once you select your carrier, you are given the option either to enroll in a new plan, or to log into your account with that carrier, that you've been using on phone A. Voila, problem solved, and no need to physically move the SIM from one phone to another to maintain service in the event of a hardware failure. There is nothing under this system that couldn't in principle do all that the current system does.
The proposal is simply to get rid of having to purchase extra pieces of plastic and metal. That's it. Nothing more. It simplifies and streamlines the process putting more of an emphasis of software changes rather than hardware changes.
The proposal is simply to get rid of having to purchase extra pieces of plastic and metal. That's it. Nothing more. It simplifies and streamlines the process putting more of an emphasis of software changes rather than hardware changes.
Absolutely. I am a long haul pilot and spend lots of time in different countries around the world. Unless we have world wide uniformed system which allows me to lock into the local network as a local number for -let's say- local prepaid service, this idea of a non removable sim card is not appealing at all to me.
And I guess we are about light years away from a system like that.
Financial Times reports that several European carriers are threatening to withhold their iPhone subsidies if Apple deploys the technology on the iPhone.
How does this differ from a cartel?
cartel |kärˈtel|
noun
an association of manufacturers or suppliers with the purpose of maintaining prices at a high level and restricting competition
well it seems we haven't heard the end of this for sure. i could see apple "renting" carrier's networks, and customers just going to apple for phone and coverage
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When you travel abroad you can select whatever carrier you like in that country if your local carrier supports roaming with multiple carriers. The sim-free concept is quite similar to the situation here except that the foreign carrier requires your local sim to provide service and collect usage fee from your local carrier. Without sim the local or foreign carrier can provide service directly to you PHONE, and possibility charge the usage fee via credit card.
When you travel abroad you can select whatever carrier you like in that country if your local carrier supports roaming with multiple carriers. The sim-free concept is quite similar to the situation here except that the foreign carrier requires your local sim to provide service and collect usage fee from your local carrier. Without sim the local or foreign carrier can provide service directly to you PHONE, and possibility charge the usage fee via credit card.
Absolutely. I am a long haul pilot and spend lots of time in different countries around the world. Unless we have world wide uniformed system which allows me to lock into the local network as a local number for -let's say- local prepaid service, this idea of a non removable sim card is not appealing at all to me.
But government policies of simlocking and technical issues of embedded SIM cards --- shouldn't be steered by the "jet-set" group of wealthy people.
Why would consumer groups care for the average joe's 2 week oversea vacation? Consumer groups should care about the other 50 weeks where I work day in and day out at the local factory.
You saying this again and again doesn't necessarily make it true. There's no evidence for it and, as others have said, there were no price changes when it was reduced to four carriers.
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How exactly does this embedded sim do that? The only problem in doing this currently (in the us at least) is that a lot of carriers only sell locked phones. In Europe, most phones are sold unlocked at electronics stores and users simply pop in their sim which contains their plan and such. This would put an end to all that, instead of total freedom, it will be like in the u.s., only that the manufacturers are the ones we need to deal with and not the providers
How exactly does this embedded sim do that? The only problem in doing this currently (in the us at least) is that a lot of carriers only sell locked phones. In Europe, most phones are sold unlocked at electronics stores and users simply pop in their sim which contains their plan and such. This would put an end to all that, instead of total freedom, it will be like in the u.s., only that the manufacturers are the ones we need to deal with and not the providers
I wouldn't say most, but the choice is there for the consumer. Her in Sweden I can either buy an unlocked phone from an electronics store or a locked phone with a built in subscription (and hence the cost of the phone spread over several months) from a specialist shop.
As I said earlier, a contract is a convenience that some people use to spread the cost. But even then, you can still buy an unlocked phone and put a contract SIM in it - contracts are not limited to just being able to be purchased with a phone.
But the choice is very much in my hands. Well, apart from Apple mobiles obviously as they are just about the only manufacturer not to offer unlocked phones.
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I don't think we're disagreeing on this, I'm very skeptical towards this sim-less concept, unless it would allow me to simply enter like a username and password to change carriers ( or phone# and pin or whatever without relying on calling the carrier to make a switch)
The point I want to make is that I want the phone to remain as separated as possible from both the manufacturer and the carrier, it's none of their concern what carrier or device I'm using my device/plan on.
I don't think we're disagreeing on this, I'm very skeptical towards this sim-less concept, unless it would allow me to simply enter like a username and password to change carriers ( or phone# and pin or whatever without relying on calling the carrier to make a switch)
The point I want to make is that I want the phone to remain as separated as possible from both the manufacturer and the carrier, it's none of their concern what carrier or device I'm using my device/plan on.
Source? or how did you make the comparison.
The built in sim could be as open as the current system, it depends on how you design the system and its policies.
Customers expect to be able to put their sim card in an unlocked phone, therefor it would be hard for carriers to prevent that with the current system. Having it built in and done in software lets you get more creative on how to lock in your customers and it might give carriers possibilities for policy changes.
Indeed, if I couldn't put my SIM in an unlocked phone (and to reiterate, I have never heard of anyone being blocked from doing that) at the next available moment I would be on the phone to them giving them crap and then moving my subscription elsewhere.
That is not true and or could be applied on US market to some extent.
Years before iphone showed up Sony Ericsson and Nokia had their app and content stores established even on feature phones. You could download free and paid apps, ringtones, wallpapers. This was really long time ago.
Are you serious? Do you really think Apple would develop a technology that has the capacity to change the entire industry by wresting power from the telcos - JUST to make an aesthetic change?
Okay, push really really hard on that rock they rolled on top of you [we'll help if it's too heavy], and when you're out of that deep, deep, dark cellar, look what's happened to the record industry, the movie industry, the publishing industry and to the mobile phone handset industry over the last few years.
Everything Apple does is about making money, by creating products that make customers happy. This is the Don Draper philosophy writ large in our time. Steve Jobs' mission is to change the world. You don't get to change the world unless you're very very good - or very very good - at what you do. Jobs is very very good - at what he does.
In business you get to change the world by devising great business models, making products that people buy, investing profits into R&D, adapting and developing new technology, leveraging buying power and continuously evolving. Apple's iMac, iPod, iTunes and iPhone business models are the most successful on the planet. Newspapers and magazines will be next as the iPad takes off.
The record industry has already been changed forever. Only a few backward-thinking Luddite protectionists are still complaining about downloads damaging the industry. The industry's core [post Napster, post YouTube, post iPod, post iTunes] has shifted back to the artists and the audience via a direct interaction.
Our relationship with telcos is fraught with issues from lack of support, high prices and penalties, to horrible add-on software that doesn't work and we don't need. All they do is provide a pipe. The add-ons are designed to create/enforce a relationship to justify the charges.
Isn't it obvious that the telcos are next on Apple's target list.
Sure aesthetics play a part, but only on the surface. Aesthetics do create attraction and desire effects. If that's all you're seeing though, try looking deeper. I have no doubt Steve may sell it this way in his keynote in 2011 or 2012, but those of us who've been paying attention know what the real story is.
But government policies of simlocking and technical issues of embedded SIM cards --- shouldn't be steered by the "jet-set" group of wealthy people.Absolutely. I am a long haul pilot and spend lots of time in different countries around the world. Unless we have world wide uniformed system which allows me to lock into the local network as a local number for -let's say- local prepaid service, this idea of a non removable sim card is not appealing at all to me.
Why would consumer groups care for the average joe's 2 week oversea vacation? Consumer groups should care about the other 50 weeks where I work day in and day out at the local factory.
I would not put Burger Thing in the group of wealthy jet-set group.
Based on his post he is more of a trucker for the air. He is just basically an airline pilot
Never happen.
Apple should just start their own cell phone company and do away with carriers completely.
I mean Apple certainly has the money and knowhow...and they know that EVERYONE and their mother will buy an iPhone. So....why not??
What do you say Apple? I would be SO on board!!
They don't have enough cash to build out a complete network.
You're talking $100's billions of dollars.
They also don't own any frequencies.
This would leave them at the mercy of the current providers.
They would have to lease bandwidth and tower time.
They might pull it off in a smaller country, but not in the U.S.
You can check iphone plans since 2007 --- not that hard to compare the G7 countries.
That's just geek talk. There is a much simpler way to lock in your customer --- it's called "there is no such thing as ETF in Europe (let alone pro-rate ETF)". And in countries like the UK, they don't even have to give you the unlocking code at the end of contract.
Even the GSMA is working on embedded SIM solutions.
There is NO future for physical SIM cards in the 500% wireless penetration world.
I live in the real world, with a mortgage, car payments, having kids to feed --- the 500% wireless penetration means that my electricity bill gets cheaper (because of smart meters), my food bill gets cheaper (because my local supermarket can afford fleet management)...
A million things are going to be cheaper with the increase use of M2M wireless solutions, and all you care is that your cell phone bill may get higher.
Closer to the operators' hearts, it could allow customers to switch more easily from one to another or insist on shorter-term contracts.
Of course they hate this. Anything to keep us under the thumb of cell subscription plans. Come on Apple, give us the power.
Of course they hate this. Anything to keep us under the thumb of cell subscription plans. Come on Apple, give us the power.
Null hypothesis. You describe how it wouldn't. Do you think Apple is doing this for the sake of giving the consumer more control? Or rather to make more money for themselves and their partners?
Two words: PREPAID SIM. If there is no contract, then a priori no contractual restrictions. Which is exactly why disempowering consumers by using built-in SIM cards, and locking them in to further contractual restrictions, is bad for the end user. It is very much in the interest of consumers to have plans separated from devices.
Absolutely. I am a long haul pilot and spend lots of time in different countries around the world. Unless we have world wide uniformed system which allows me to lock into the local network as a local number for -let's say- local prepaid service, this idea of a non removable sim card is not appealing at all to me.
Exactly. I travel a fair bit, and simply popping in my prepaid SIM when arriving in JFK from Shanghai, or from mainland China to Hong Kong or Bangkok, is by far the most foolproof way of ensuring that I get mobile service wherever I am. Even if this is implemented in the EU, North America, and parts of Asia, what are the chances of it being rolled out in a timely manner in most of the world? Are India, Latin America, most of Asia, and Africa all going to follow suit and have their over the air programming work as simply and transparently as just swapping a SIM card?
Just one example, I traveled in a country in West Africa 6 months ago. Lovely country and people, but infrastructure-wise a real mess. Despite frequent power outages and chronic water shortages, I was able to buy a local prepaid SIM and pop it in my iPhone, took about 5 minutes to find a seller and cost maybe 10 bucks. Adding another layer of complexity to already overburdened telecoms around the world is not a good idea for a "world phone".
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I understand your points. My post was simply in a response to my comment on what Apple is looking to do and how it benefits the consumer globally.
I'm thinking beyond Sweden, the US, Europe and any other place. It seems like the goal is to make a TRULY global iPhone without the need for anything else and this is a step in that direction.