CBS.com Prepping HTML5 Video Playback for iPad

[ryrock77]

Your comments above make it appear otherwise.

Back when I learned how to create websites we relied on tables and spacers to make everything look right. Not much of what I was taught back then matters anymore. Just like Flash isn't going to matter when it comes to general web design in the future.

Things change. It indeed sucks when people excel at something, yet that skill no longer holds the value it once had.

zweigand want to see my resume? Worked for Disney, Warner Bros and others.
I do web design and development, print, story boarding, character development, After Effects for commercials, directing national commercial spots for my company. Web design is my bread and butter.

I do html and flash sites and posted on this thread because Mac users hating flash has nothing to do with the industry and the millions of people on the web. The number of Mac owners vs. Windows users is not even close. Windows crushes the number of Mac owners. Sorry but that's what pushes technology....... not what Steve wants.

And I've adapted thru out my career. I create. That's what drives the web, or the movie or TV Show that you watch. It's the creative idea that will always be needed.

Until HTML5 replaces the creative side of Flash then we will have Flash.
Flash games and Flash Ads embedded into html5 is still flash content.

So zweigand, please don't respond by making it sound like I excelled at Flash and won't be viable in the future. Apple created Motion at one point to take the place of After Effects.....never happened and won't happen. It's not the creative industry people pushing html5. It's the coding backend none creative types.

To many industry people use Flash now to give it up. Sorry folks.

 

[zweigand]

zweigand want to see my resume? Worked for Disney, Warner Bros and others.
I do web design and development, print, story boarding, character development, After Effects for commercials, directing national commercial spots for my company. Web design is my bread and butter.

I do html and flash sites and posted on this thread because Mac users hating flash has nothing to do with the industry and the millions of people on the web. The number of Mac owners vs. Windows users is not even close. Windows crushes the number of Mac owners. Sorry but that's what pushes technology....... not what Steve wants.

And I've adapted thru out my career. I create. That's what drives the web, or the movie or TV Show that you watch. It's the creative idea that will always be needed.

Until HTML5 replaces the creative side of Flash then we will have Flash.
Flash games and Flash Ads embedded into html5 is still flash content.

So zweigand, please don't respond by making it sound like I excelled at Flash and won't be viable in the future. Apple created Motion at one point to take the place of After Effects.....never happened and won't happen. It's not the creative industry people pushing html5. It's the coding backend none creative types.

To many industry people use Flash now to give it up. Sorry folks.

I'd love to see your resume… or your website.

I've never been one of the guys that said HTML5 is going to replace Flash for games and flashy graphics anytime soon. It won't, at least until a software development environment is created. What it WILL take over is video, and advertisements. Video will come first, because of the exploding mobile market and iPhone/iPad. Advertisements will follow because clients aren't going to want to pay people to create two different ads. If for some reason they don't, users aren't the ones missing out …it's the advertisers.

 

[charlituna]

Apple has had years to get their OS systems to work well with Flash and have done nothing about this. Flash has worked well on Window OS for years.

It's not Apple's problem to fix.

Flash works great on Windows because it was built for Windows. Adobe themselves have admitted that all they did was port the Windows versus to Mac via a handful of changed lines. That's why Jobs calls them lazy etc. Even Adobe knows that they should have done a ground up optimized coding for Mac OS like they did for Windows but they didn't. And forced Apple to have to recode Safari to stop Flash from crashing the whole browser when the plug in crashes

If Apple's could play Flash the same way Window's does then no one would have a problem with Flash.

maybe, maybe not.
but it's neither here nor there when it comes to the ipad. Because, as Flash developers themselves note, Flash is a mouse based tech which just doesn't work on a touch based system that lacks pressure sensitivity. and this is the key reason why Apple doesn't have Flash support in the iphone OS line. the buggy stuff is just a bonus

 

[ryrock77]

I'd love to see your resume… or your website.

I've never been one of the guys that said HTML5 is going to replace Flash for games and flashy graphics anytime soon. It won't, at least until a software development environment is created. What it WILL take over is video, and advertisements. Video will come first, because of the exploding mobile market and iPhone/iPad. Advertisements will follow because clients aren't going to want to pay people to create two different ads. If for some reason they don't, users aren't the ones missing out …it's the advertisers.

I see that your blogging about Flash Mobil on your Blog. One question? Who owns Quicktime? Answer = Apple. So why would Apple want to support Flash in any way when it directly competes with QT for video. At one point before Flash became the standard video player / plug-in, QT was competing with Realtime Player, Window, etc to become the video standard for the web.

Apple has never really wanted Flash to work well on Mac OS. Why? Because they don't own it. And now it would threaten how the iPhone apps are made.

Now with Flash Mobile 10.1 all the other Smartphone apps (not iPhone) can be made in Flash.

Why do you think Jobs would take shots at Adobe and Flash. Maybe Flash is dead for Apple's iPad, iPhone, etc. but not the other smartphones or Windows
users.

Do you know how many Windows users are out in the real world? Yes some might have iPhones but they all work on Windows and have Windows PC's at home.

Apple's share of the PC market is very small vs Windows share.

It's not Apple's problem to fix.

Flash works great on Windows because it was built for Windows. Adobe themselves have admitted that all they did was port the Windows versus to Mac via a handful of changed lines. That's why Jobs calls them lazy etc. Even Adobe knows that they should have done a ground up optimized coding for Mac OS like they did for Windows but they didn't. And forced Apple to have to recode Safari to stop Flash from crashing the whole browser when the plug in crashes



maybe, maybe not.
but it's neither here nor there when it comes to the ipad. Because, as Flash developers themselves note, Flash is a mouse based tech which just doesn't work on a touch based system that lacks pressure sensitivity. and this is the key reason why Apple doesn't have Flash support in the iphone OS line. the buggy stuff is just a bonus

Yeah and Macromedia and Adobe have been lazy for the last 10 years. Apple never wanted flash to work well on the Mac. Period. Flash beat Apple at becoming the standard video player for the web.


Flash has been used for touch screen kiosk years before the iPhone came out. So that statement is not true. I worked on kiosk for Universal Studios that used a touch screen and flash. It worked perfect with no bugs and this was 8 years ago.

So the touch screen issue is flat out not true. Try again.

So what if Apple does not want to use Flash. Millions more Windows users use flash and never complain. I have never heard of a Windows user saying "man my cpu % just spiked up to this %....flash sucks".......you never hear that from Windows users.

 

[zweigand]

I see that your blogging about Flash Mobil on your Blog. One question? Who owns Quicktime? Answer = Apple. So why would Apple want to support Flash in any way when it directly competes with QT for video. At one point before Flash became the standard video player / plug-in, QT was competing with Realtime Player, Window, etc to become the video standard for the web.

Apple has never really wanted Flash to work well on Mac OS. Why? Because they don't own it. And now it would threaten how the iPhone apps are made.

The thing is, Windows 7 directly supports h.264. There is no reason you would need to download Quicktime to be able to view HTML5 video. Android users aren't going to be using QT to play h.264 either. Unless I'm missing something I really don't see this as a ploy to get more QT users.

One thing I will agree with you on is the fact that Apple doesn't like the lack of control that Flash presents to them. Given the quality of Flash on the Mac, its not hard to see why. Adobe is trying to play nice now, but I think they lost their chance.

 

[ScottishDuck]

The thing is, Windows 7 directly supports h.264. There is no reason you would need to download Quicktime to be able to view HTML5 video. Android users aren't going to be using QT to play h.264 either. Unless I'm missing something I really don't see this as a ploy to get more QT users.

One thing I will agree with you on is the fact that Apple doesn't like the lack of control that Flash presents to them. Given the quality of Flash on the Mac, its not hard to see why. Adobe is trying to play nice now, but I think they lost their chance.

Still waiting on that resume, or proof of website.

 

[zweigand]

Still waiting on that resume, or proof of website.

Is that directed at me?

 

[ryrock77]

Still waiting on that resume, or proof of website.

I make my living building website, commercial spots, and creative for Disney, Warner Bros in the past and big companies now. Went out on my own for the last 7 years and provide web, print, video, creative development. I am not a back end programmer. So if I send anyone my resume or website link it won't be for everyone to see. I don't think I'm applying for work with you guys.

I have not been keeping up with html5 but have designed an app for the iPhone. I do love working in flash but when I pitch the creative to the client it depends on the needs of the client and then we see if we need any flash at all.

So it's really how good my creative is to the client.

zweigand - my comments about QT was about the past Apple push for web video standard before flash took hold as the web video standard. I love QT for broadcast video work and h.264 is great also. Flash flv is just so easy right now for the web. I think flash or someone else will take web video to the next level, which is a good thing. That's a win win for everyone.

I don't understand if this Flash/Adobe out cry is only an Apple thing or also a Windows out cry to kill Flash? It has always seemed to me that you have a full web experience and a mobile web experience (with out flash mostly) and have found workarounds for this.
Why would this change given how many Windows users you have in the market. I am a Windows user myself (I have a Cube and have had an iMac, and Mac Book Pro back in 2000 and 2003, currently have a Quad core Mac Pro for my video work) and Flash on Windows is not the same issue that you have with Flash on Apple.

Why would the full web experience (Windows users also) change just for Apple?

 

[charlituna]

Why would the full web experience (Windows users also) change just for Apple?

You speak of serving clients needs so lets pose the question a different way.

Why wouldn't you, as a designer, use the most accessible form of presentation. One that works for ALL operating systems, computer and mobile device and one that is ADA compliant (something not as easy to achieve using
Flash as the basis for a site).

Mobile devices and even the Mac OS are growing and few folks will want to miss out on that growth so they will want whatever it takes to reach those users. But they also don't want to pay twice. So what are you going to tell them. That they have to miss out on millions of potential viewers because you insist on using Flash or pay double so you can make two versions. One for the hip masses using Windows and another for the anti-Flash losers. Probably not.

 

[puffnstuff]

I'm a web designer so I know how it works.

web designer = web developer?

 

[MorphingDragon]

web designer = web developer?

No, to put it simply a web designer usually doesn't have a lot of coding skills and usually only makes websites made in HTML/CSS/ActionScript and maybe Javascript. They usually rely on Dreamweaver/Flash/Fireworks. A Website Developer has a lot of coding skills and most likely knows PHP. But Developers seem to have no taste in how to make websites.

Design = a person who plans the form, look, or workings of something before its being made or built, typically by drawing it in detail : he's one of the world's leading car designers.

Developer = a person or thing that develops something : a property developer | software developers.

---

Personally I refuse to use Flash beyond Web Games and Watching Video. Flash can not replace the integration and unity of a peice of software written for the OS. Same goes for Java.

 

[puffnstuff]

No, to put it simply a web designer usually doesn't have a lot of coding skills and usually only makes websites made in HTML/CSS/ActionScript and maybe Javascript. They usually rely on Dreamweaver/Flash/Fireworks. A Website Developer has a lot of coding skills and most likely knows PHP. But Developers seem to have no taste in how to make websites.

Design = a person who plans the form, look, or workings of something before its being made or built, typically by drawing it in detail : he's one of the world's leading car designers.

Developer = a person or thing that develops something : a property developer | software developers.

---

Personally I refuse to use Flash beyond Web Games and Watching Video. Flash can not replace the integration and unity of a peice of software written for the OS. Same goes for Java.

Yes, I know I was trying to point out the fact that he uses him being a web designer to make him his arguments more valid and if anything he makes himself more invalid on the topic by saying so.


I don't know where the OS talk came from but any issues that arrive from the html5 video tag is more to do w/ your browser than anything.

The only issue I have with html5 video is the h.264 codec goes against the whole fight for an easy open source world. This issue either needs to be resolved or sites like cbs.com will be forced to making three different players.

In terms of gaming,and animation which is another piece of the flash pie all it will take is a company that will make software that will allow you to develop things faster. Right now not a lot of people are not bothering because you have to handcode everything including coordinates which takes a lot of time to make simple <canvas> animation or game.

Lastly ads, I have read that ads in the video cannot be done. I have not dabbled in the realms of html5 video but still I am sure there is a loop hole.

 

[MorphingDragon]

Yes, I know I was trying to point out the fact that he uses him being a web designer to make him his arguments more valid and if anything he makes himself more invalid on the topic by saying so.


I don't know where the OS talk came from but any issues that arrive from the html5 video tag is more to do w/ your browser than anything.

The only issue I have with html5 video is the h.264 codec goes against the whole fight for an easy open source world. This issue either needs to be resolved or sites like cbs.com will be forced to making three different players.

In terms of gaming,and animation which is another piece of the flash pie all it will take is a company that will make software that will allow you to develop things faster. Right now not a lot of people are not bothering because you have to handcode everything including coordinates which takes a lot of time to make simple <canvas> animation or game.

Lastly ads, I have read that ads in the video cannot be done. I have not dabbled in the realms of html5 video but still I am sure there is a loop hole.

Well then Firefox can utilize VLC.dll. VLC is 100% opensource and hasnt been proven to be illegal. Even then the known legal issues are taken away when the CSS features are removed.

 

[H00513R]

Why not use HTML5 more?? Everyone I know really likes what they seen of it so far. This will only spread as Apple gains market share.

 

[zweigand]

The only issue I have with html5 video is the h.264 codec goes against the whole fight for an easy open source world. This issue either needs to be resolved or sites like cbs.com will be forced to making three different players.

Its pretty much been resolved. Firefox is going to have to give it up and start supporting h.264.

Kinda hypocritical that they support Flash, yet cry about patents in h.264.

 

[puffnstuff]

Its pretty much been resolved. Firefox is going to have to give it up and start supporting h.264.

Kinda hypocritical that they support Flash, yet cry about patents in h.264.

I think the issue is they don't want to pay the licensing fee.

 

[Hurda]

Its pretty much been resolved. Firefox is going to have to give it up and start supporting h.264.

Kinda hypocritical that they support Flash, yet cry about patents in h.264.

Firefox supports Flash? How?
They have a plugin-API, which Adobe is using with a Flash plugin.
And in case you aren't aware: Apple (together with other companies) is a licensor of MPEG-4 AVC. Think about it.

 

[zweigand]

I think the issue is they don't want to pay the licensing fee.

Firefox doesn't have to decode the h.264. Both Windows and OS X natively support h.264, all firefox has to do is hand off the video to be processed elsewhere. (kinda like handbrake hands off CSS decryption to VLC.)

 

[zweigand]

Firefox supports Flash? How?
They have a plugin-API, which Adobe is using with a Flash plugin.
And in case you aren't aware: Apple (together with other companies) is a licensor of MPEG-4 AVC. Think about it.

Good, then Mozilla can use the same plug-in architecture to support h.264.

Apple is going to support it, Google/Chrome is going to support it, and IE9 is going to support it. Youtube, Vimeo, Brightcove, etc. aren't going to double their encoding/storage expenses to support Ogg just for Firefox. They will serve them the same h.264 video through Flash …aka "legacy support".

 

[ryrock77]

Yes, I know I was trying to point out the fact that he uses him being a web designer to make him his arguments more valid and if anything he makes himself more invalid on the topic by saying so.

Here's what I do: "web design and development, print, story boarding, character development, After Effects for commercials, directing national commercial spots" For my clients I design the site and develop the flow of the entire site. The nav, sub nav and what goes on every page. I don't rely on some one else to develop the site. And also who ever asked what do I do for the client when we have to use flash? NO I don't charge twice to work flash sites into a mobile site. I have also designed an iphone app for one of my clients.

Flash is not all that I do.....read all of my post and you would see this. By the way don't go to Nike's web site because they use a lot of Flash and they do it for a reason.

puffnstuff why don't you give me your take on why Nike uses so much Flash?

And they use Flash very well I might ad.

 

[ScottishDuck]

Here's what I do: "web design and development, print, story boarding, character development, After Effects for commercials, directing national commercial spots" For my clients I design the site and develop the flow of the entire site. The nav, sub nav and what goes on every page. I don't rely on some one else to develop the site. And also who ever asked what do I do for the client when we have to use flash? NO I don't charge twice to work flash sites into a mobile site. I have also designed an iphone app for one of my clients.

Flash is not all that I do.....read all of my post and you would see this. By the way don't go to Nike's web site because they use a lot of Flash and they do it for a reason.

puffnstuff why don't you give me your take on why Nike uses so much Flash?

And they use Flash very well I might ad.

You've yet to prove any of these apparent credentials. All I'm seeing is the typical "Pretend I'm an expert to elevate my argument".

 

[ryrock77]

You've yet to prove any of these apparent credentials. All I'm seeing is the typical "Pretend I'm an expert to elevate my argument".

Based on your profile your a student. I'm a working professional. What do my credential have to do with my argument? I asked about the Flash Ads on CNN having to be redone because it's additional work and the Ads are not the same if they are not done in Flash. i.e. look at the L.L. Bean ad at CNN....it has rain falling down. And yes you can do this as an animated giff but it will not look as good at that file size.

Waiting on your response Mr. Duck!

 

[ScottishDuck]

I don't entirely understand what I'm responding to here but I'll have a go.

Based on your profile your a student. I'm a working professional.

You've continuously dodged the chance to prove this claim, only making it more and more likely you are a child trying to elevate your opinions.

What do my credential have to do with my argument?

Everything. Especially when you claim Flash is the only option, showing you have no real idea about alternatives.

I asked about the Flash Ads on CNN having to be redone because it's additional work and the Ads are not the same if they are not done in Flash. i.e. look at the L.L. Bean ad at CNN....it has rain falling down. And yes you can do this as an animated giff but it will not look as good at that file size.

Surely as a "working professional", you have heard of javascript? Or has that slipped your mind amongst the vast quantity of knowledge in there.

 

[ryrock77]

I don't entirely understand what I'm responding to here but I'll have a go.



You've continuously dodged the chance to prove this claim, only making it more and more likely you are a child trying to elevate your opinions.



Everything. Especially when you claim Flash is the only option, showing you have no real idea about alternatives.



Surely as a "working professional", you have heard of javascript? Or has that slipped your mind amongst the vast quantity of knowledge in there.

When did I say that Flash was the only option? never.

Why are all the ads in Flash and not java script? If javascript was the choice then no one would have to redo ads for the iphone.

Your still a student. Zweigand has paid his dues from what I can tell so he gets a pass on asking for proof. I've attached jpgs of sites that I design all by myself.

And they are not all in flash.

And Zweigand I've adapted to just about everything that I can. You yourself call yourself a graphic designer and Apple programmer.
I've adapted to thru out my career a lot more then you have and your the one that made the first comment about me being and web designer. Maybe you need to spend more time learning new skills and stop making assumptions about me and my skill set.

 

[ScottishDuck]

When did I say that Flash was the only option? never.

Why are all the ads in Flash and not java script? If javascript was the choice then no one would have to redo ads for the iphone.

Your still a student. Zweigand has paid his dues from what I can tell so he gets a pass on asking for proof. I've attached jpgs of sites that I design all by myself.

And they are not all in flash.

Firstly, you've not proven anything by posting pictures of websites (which coincidentally seem to have all been coded by a different person, unless you like to change your spacing and tabbing on a regular basis.

Secondly, personal attacks are against the rules.