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klausbreyer

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jan 1, 2022
2
0
Hi,

I sometimes have the issue, that I turn on the Playstation (4, Pro, if relevant).
Then the Playstation is turning on the TV (via CEC).
And then the TV turns on the Apple TV and switches to the Apple TV HDMI Signal.
Then I manually need to change HDMI channel back to the HDMI Input of the Playstation.

This is a sometimes-usecase. But very anyoing, indeed.
Most of the time we just use the Apple TV remote as the sole input device. Turning on and off the TV with it.

So I am looking for a solution, that the TV cannot turn on the Apple TV, but I still want that the Apple TV is turning on the TV.

TV is LG OLED65CX.
 

w5jck

macrumors 65816
Nov 9, 2013
1,214
1,586
How do you have your system set up? Is the TV set up as the hub which controls all the other streaming devices like the ATV and PS4? Or is the ATV or PS4 or your sound system set up as the hub which controls the TV and other streaming devices.

I can't speak for the second option, but as far the first wherein the TV is the hub, which is how my system is set up, turning on the power via any streaming device connected to the TV by pressing the Power button on that streaming device's remote results in the TV being powered on, the sound system being powered on, that streaming device being powered on, and the TV switching the HDMI connection to that streaming device.

So if everything is off and I pick up:
  • The TV remote and and press the Power button, the TV and sound system turn on and the TV interface (Home screen) is displayed.
  • The ATV 4K remote and hold down the Power button for a second, the TV, sound system, and ATV 4K turn on and the ATV 4K interface (Home screen) is displayed.
  • The Fire TV Cube remote and press the Power button, the TV, sound system, and Fire TV Cube turn on and the Fire TV interface (Home screen) is displayed.
To switch between the TV, ATV 4K, and the Fire TV Cube, I can either use the TV remote and change which HDMI connection to switch to, or I can do the following:
  • To switch to the TV I can press the Home button on my TV remote.
  • To switch to the ATV 4K I can press the Display/Home button (the button with the image of a TV on it) on my ATV 4K 2021 remote. (Sorry, I can't remember the official name for this button.)
  • To switch to the Fire TV Cube I can press the Home button on my Fire TV Cube remote.
Note: Don't use the Power button on any of the remotes or you will shut down everything. You need to use their Home buttons.

To turn everything off, or at least to turn off the TV, sound system, and whichever streaming device is in use at the moment:
  • To turn off TV, sound system, and any active streaming device I can press the Power button on the TV.
  • To turn off the TV, sound system, and the ATV 4K I can press and hold the Power button for a second on my ATV 4K remote.
  • To turn off the TV, sound system, and the Fire TV Cube I can press the Power button on my Fire TV Cube remote.
Final note: Although I can use the TV remote as a universal remote to control the streaming devices, I rarely do. Each device has a remote that works better for it than a universal remote, so I tend to use the remote associated with that device. However, any remote can power on/off the entire system, change volume, mute sound, etc. I mostly use the ATV 4K, so that remote is the one I use 90% or more of the time.
 
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klausbreyer

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jan 1, 2022
2
0
What do you mean with Hub? My TV just has an option with the following description:

When the automatic synchronization of the power supply is activated your TV will be simultaneously with a SIMPLINK device at the same time and your SIMPLINK devices simultaneously with your TV set switched off.

Because the TV can only do this in both directions, I was looking for an option of the Apple TV to limit their featureset.
 

JPMLondon

macrumors newbie
Nov 27, 2020
24
13
I have a similar issue with my setup...

LG G1 65" TV, LG GX soundbar, LG UBK90 blu-ray player and Apple TV 4K.
All peripherals connected to TV, soundbar via HDMI1/eARC.

If I want to watch a dvd/blu-ray I turn this on. Then TV turns on, and then Apple TV goes live after that and the screen switches to the Apple TV. I will then turn off the Apple TV and the rest turns off as well. This is the point where I start swearing and go read a book instead... Screen time is waaaaay down after upgrading all the equipment.

By the way I got all LG to benefit from being able to use just one remote, but turns out the TV remote is not really adequate for the DVD player, nor the soundbar so need them all within reach anyway...
 

w5jck

macrumors 65816
Nov 9, 2013
1,214
1,586
LOL, what a terrible way for that company to word their instruction manual!

I think you must have an LG TV. I found this description online:

SIMPLINK is a function that allows you to use the TV remote control to control the basic functions of connected HDMI devices. For example, with the LG TV remote control you can control a connected Blu-Ray player: play, pause, fast reverse, etc. Simplink uses the HDMI-CEC (Consumer Electronics Control) standard, with which the device to be controlled must be compatible. In this case, you can use the device even if of a different manufacturer. The HDMI cable must also be of the HDMI-CEC type. Verification in the specifications.

I used the term hub for lack of a better term. What I mean, is did you set up the TV to control all the other devices, like described in the quote directly above. If you did, the TV remote can control all the other compatible, and correctly installed, devices using HDMI-CEC. If the devices are correctly installed, then their remotes can control the Power on/off and volume of the TV. For the Apple TV go into settings and look for connected BT devices and/or remotes. I'm away from my ATV 4K so I cannot look it up right now, but I'll add the specific location in Settings later. I don't remember what all settings you can change, but you can make a few changes therein. I don'yt think these settings are your issue though.

It sounds like perhaps within the LG TV's settings you have the ATV somehow set up as the default device to use whenever powered ON. I have no clue how LG TV settings work, so look for a setting that sets a default device within the LG settings. Perhaps the LG TV thinks that HDMI port 1 is the default, and perhaps the ATV is connected to HDMI port 1. I really don't know because my Sony Bravia works differently and I don't have this issue. With my Bravia, on whichever device I press the Power button, it turns on my TV which in return turns on that device.
 
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w5jck

macrumors 65816
Nov 9, 2013
1,214
1,586
I just looked at the User Guide for your LG TV. What a mess. LG seems to have a convoluted SIMPLINK system (their version of HDMI-CEC that is anything but simple). With my Bravia TV, I plugged everything in and it automatically set everything up in just a few minutes. The LG looks like a nightmare to set up, and their manual really sucks too. I think the fault likely lies within the LG SIMPLINK system and/or in the LG remote setup. Perhaps you will be much better off posting this question on a forum for LG TVs.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
 

Pug72

macrumors 65816
Mar 18, 2012
1,318
875
England
Had this prob and fixed it by removing pin 13 (CEC) on a short HDMI extender I had and using that on the Apple TV.
You can buy adapters that block pin 13.

Shouldn't have to do this but turning off CEC on the ATV wouldn't stop the issue.
 

reginaldu

macrumors newbie
Mar 19, 2022
3
2
Had this prob and fixed it by removing pin 13 (CEC) on a short HDMI extender I had and using that on the Apple TV.
You can buy adapters that block pin 13.

Shouldn't have to do this but turning off CEC on the ATV wouldn't stop the issue.
Hello. I have this same issue but instead with a PC and my Apple TV. Like the original poster I too mainly use the ATV 4K as the source but ocassionally I use my PC. What is annoying is that if I use my TV remote to turn on the TV so that I can use the PC, it also turns on the ATV 4K and switches to that ATV 4K input. So are you saying by removing Pin 13 it can create a one way chain of command where in the ATV 4K has the ability to turn on the TV but the TV does not have the ability to turn on the ATV 4K? If so, this would be perfect.
 

Pug72

macrumors 65816
Mar 18, 2012
1,318
875
England
If you use HDMI control to turn on the tv with the ATV, removing pin 13 will stop that working I'm afraid.
I use a Harmony remote so I don't use CEC at all.

Incidentally, I had to go back to an intact HDMI lead as the adapter I modified intermittently lost Dolby Vision.
I named the ATV to 'Lounge' to help my OCD accept and forget the issue.
 
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reginaldu

macrumors newbie
Mar 19, 2022
3
2
If you use HDMI control to turn on the tv with the ATV, removing pin 13 will stop that working I'm afraid.
I use a Harmony remote so I don't use CEC at all.

Incidentally, I had to go back to an intact HDMI lead as the adapter I modified intermittently lost Dolby Vision.
I named the ATV to 'Lounge' to help my OCD accept and forget the issue.
Thank you. Yes that’s what I was afraid of. It may be more of a software issue than a hardware one. If so, I wish Apple and other manufacturers would build a “one way” CEC control feature into the settings where in a you could have device A have control over device B without allowing device B to have control over device A. Anyway, Yes I will probably need a harmony remote to get everything close to working like I want it to. Thanks to our good friend OCD it will probably never be 100% perfect lol.

Why does naming you’re Apple TV “lounge” help your OCD? lol
 
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Pug72

macrumors 65816
Mar 18, 2012
1,318
875
England
To be fair, turning HDMI control off on the AppleTV should turn it off!!!

I use an AVR so when I'm turning Sky/Xbox/Ps5/etc. on I was getting a banner stating HDMI AppleTV every time.
So I named my AppleTv to Lounge which is my preferred collective name for my AVR.
 

reginaldu

macrumors newbie
Mar 19, 2022
3
2
True but if I turn off the HDMI control (CEC) on the Apple TV, it will not allow me to power on both my AVR and TV with just one button press on the ATV remote (which I love). 80% of the time things work out well since I mostly use the ATV. It’s only annoying the other 20% when I want to use a different source like the PC. Thats why I’m saying it would be cool if Apple allowed the customization to be a little more granular. I hear the Nvidia Shield offers more customization but I haven’t tried it personally.

Oh okay I understand what you mean as far as labeling your ATV ?.
 
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AboveGroundLevel

macrumors newbie
Oct 15, 2021
7
11
Basically what happens is, if you turn off your TV while the last source was set to Apple TV, the next time you turn on your PS5, CEC will automatically send the on command to the Apple TV, then will switch input to PS5 then switch it back to Apple TV after it’s done booting.

I have the same issue with my Xbox Series X.
However, the Xbox has the option to “switch TV input using controller”.
This means if the TV automatically switches the source to the Apple TV, I can hit the “Xbox” button on my controller to switch it back to the console so I don’t have to use the TV remote to switch it manually. In fact I never use the TV remote.

Maybe the PS5 has something similar?

Sorry if this doesn’t help.
 
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CEC is NOT the way. Get yourself a learning remote with macros and then bypass CEC (turn it off on everything) and let the macros turn whatever parts of the system on that you want to use at the time. Basically, you are shifting what CEC does to something you can control and make work however you want it to work.

Typically, there are at least a few buttons on learn remotes that can be customized. So you make one your PS4 ON/OFF macro and another your AppleTV ON/OFF macro. The macro then sets the right HDMI input, etc based upon which button you push. Even if you have a very complicated AV setup, the macros can typically execute up to 99 or more commands just like you could do by pressing select buttons on individual device remotes.

If your TV has discrete ON and discrete OFF buttons, put that in the macro too. If not, use ON/OFF buttons on the remote to turn on/off the TV. This will make it easier to switch between source devices without the switch flipping the TV off when you are really just wanting to switch from PS4 to AppleTV or vice versa. More simply, if you do NOT have discrete on/off buttons for the TV, you don't want to program that into a macro. Else, when you switch from PS4 to AppleTV (or vice versa) with the other macro, you will turn off the TV.

The main idea here is the CEC is trying to be a "for dummies" protocol that "just works." However, to keep it simple, it doesn't offer much user control or flexility to adapt to unique situations. When it doesn't "just work" for a given situation, the best idea is to replace its functionality by pulling it out to a learn remote with macros. The learn part can learn any remote command and the macro part can simulate making CEC do whatever one wants it to do.

I've used learn remotes this way for years and basically have everything as "one click" triggers. Maybe there will eventually be a CEC Pro or similar with more flexibility to help in such situations?
 
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Ledgem

macrumors 68020
Jan 18, 2008
2,021
892
Hawaii, USA
I don't see how the macros makes this process any simpler... nor how it adds any value. The system usually works perfectly fine: turn on your TV or AppleTV, and the other device comes on as well. The problem occurs when you're trying to turn on the television by turning on a device that was not the last used device, and this one occurs regardless of what the device is.

I also have an LG television, and switch between a PlayStation 5 and an AppleTV. If everything is off and the AppleTV was the last device used, and I then turn on the PS5, everything turns on and then the television switches back to the AppleTV, forcing me to use the TV remote to change the input source back to the PS5. Similarly, if I turned off the television with the PS5 being the source, and then power everything up by turning on the AppleTV, it works fine for a second or two and then turns on and switches back to the PS5.

Given what's been written here, and since it cuts both ways regardless of which device was the last one used, I get the impression that this is an issue on LG's part.

I have two possible work-arounds, but unfortunately none of them make it work as you would hope:

1) If you know you're going to to be using a device different from what was last used, turn the television on, allow it to power up what it was previously connected to, and then turn on the other device. The television will appropriately change input sources. The downside to this is that you either need to allow the device you're not using to go to sleep on its own, or interact with it to power it down or put it into suspend.

Don't want to touch your TV remote? Here's another tip. Part of the reason I chose LG over Sony or Samsung was for HomeKit support. If you have Home set up (and if you have an AppleTV or a HomePod, you can set this up quite easily), you can turn your TV on and off with Siri commands. Unfortunately, Siri does not seem to be able to control the television beyond that.

2) Use a hardware switch (HDMI switch). My television has four HDMI ports, two of which support 4K at 120 Hz, and one of those two of which is unfortunately used for eARC. I bought a switch so that my PS5 and AppleTV could both use the higher refresh rate. You press a button and it toggles which device is connected. I haven't ended up using it beyond some initial testing; as I recall, it resolved this issue... but did require that you verify that the correct device is designated on the switch.

In response to an older comment from above, the setup for all of this was incredibly easy. It's just unfortunate there's no way to fine-tune it. It seems like there's a software update for the television every 1-3 months, so maybe LG will eventually fix this... but I'm not holding my breath for it.
 
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George Dawes

macrumors 68020
Jul 17, 2014
2,101
2,283
=VH=
Got the same issue , had complete control over my sony tv and yamaha amp , now kaput

I thought my 8 year old beovision 11 which used it's own protocol which i so far assumed was inferior....

After this morning I'm not so sure...
 
I don't see how the macros makes this process any simpler... nor how it adds any value. The system usually works perfectly fine: turn on your TV or AppleTV, and the other device comes on as well. The problem occurs when you're trying to turn on the television by turning on a device that was not the last used device, and this one occurs regardless of what the device is.

Because a learn remote with macros would give OP a way to command the equipment to do what he wants vs. hoping that rigid CEC will somehow magically adapt to do what OP wants. CEC works as it works. It's pretty much a locked-down, barely standard that sort-of-to-mostly works with a variety of AV equipment. There is no flexibility to make it do something different than it does for any given mix of equipment.

For some people, pretty much exactly what they want their AV equipment to do, it does. For others, it does not. For the latter, they have nothing they can do to adjust how it works after trying some different cables, checking what is plugged into which jack and that simple on/off menus are indeed on. There is no secret CEC Advanced Control menu somewhere where someone can adjust what is happening with their equipment.

A learn remote with macros will pull what OP is wanting CEC to do OUTSIDE of the AV equipment... effectively bypassing CEC entirely... like choosing a different phone app when the stock one that came with the phone doesn't do what you want it to do. And because OP can program the macros to do WHATEVER they want their AV equipment to do at the push of as little as one button, they can make it do exactly what they want it to do.

The "added value" is that owner gets to make their stuff do what they want it to do.

I'll concede about "simpler," as doing a little simple programming is not as simple as CEC "just working." But if CEC is failing OP and OP still wants it all to do what they want it to do, a little programming is how to actually get what they want. And once the learn remote and macros are programmed (one time), it's as simple as pushing ONE button to make up to anything happen.
 
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