Centrino technology vs ?

[hacurio1]

Originally posted by patrick0brien
-bennetsaysargh

Well, I'll put my .02 in with some rather relative specs. But I find that this is what IT guys use so here goes:

802.11a is twice the frequency (~5.4ghz-ish) twice the range and twice the price of 802.11b, and it runs at 54kbps.

Persoanlly I prefer "a" but again, the equipment is so darned expensive. "b" got there first, so it's wider-accepted.

WOW!! 54kbps.......That is fast!!! LOL

Quote form
http://www.80211-planet.com/columns/article.php/961181


"802.11a vs. 802.11b
As you probably know, 802.11a and 802.11b each define a different physical layer. 802.11b radios transmit at 2.4 GHz and send data up to 11 Mbps using direct sequence spread spectrum modulation; whereas, 802.11a radios transmit at 5 GHz and send data up to 54 Mbps using OFDM (Orthogonal Frequency Division Multiplexing).

Of course the superior performance of 802.11a offers excellent support for bandwidth hungry applications, but the higher operating frequency equates to relatively shorter range. I've seen demonstrations of 802.11a radios delivering 54 Mbps with distances of about 60 feet, which is far less than the 300 feet or so that you'll have with 802.11b systems. As compared to 802.11b, you'll need a much larger number of 802.11a access points to cover a facility, especially large ones.

The different radio frequency and modulation types of 802.11a and 802.11b causes them to not interoperate. For example, an end user equipped with an 802.11a radio card will not be able to connect with an 802.11b access point. The 802.11 standard offers no provisions for interoperability between the different physical layers."

Thats the beauty of 'G.'
Great speeds and it's compatible with 802.11b. Yes, it does not enjoy the same range, but if i have the flexibility then i must say that the 802.11g standard is so far the best. 802.11b is mainstream, so don't even dream on seeing 'a' networks any time soon.

 

[KingArthur]

From what I have heard, there is only one advantage to 11a: range. It apparently has a much larger operational range, but at the same time, I have heard that there are a LOT of kinks to work out with it. A friend that worked at the IT department at the University of Dayton (where I use to attend) who has been on the front running of their wireless ventures explained to me one time the draw-backs that they are going to have by choosing a company that is going to supply them with 11a. I'll see if I can hook up with him again sometime and find out why it is such a bad idea.

 

[janey]

i think airport extreme/802.11g is cooler because it's faster and it has a sexy name. i also like it because pc users haven't heard of it.

 

[MisterMe]

Originally posted by KingArthur
Actually, very often, things are available for the PC first, but it takes FOREVER for it to be adopted by them. Point in case, USB was out for PC first. But shortly after, Apple abandoned ADB, seiral, and parallel ports completely and moved the standard to USB. PCs still use PS/2 ports for mice and keyboards, LPT ports for printers, and sport serial ports just for the heck of it. They still haven't moved on. Sure, you could find USB a while before it was on the Macs, but it still hasn't been completely adopted by PC companies. Same thing with WiFi. PCs had it first, but Apple came along and made it a standard. Finally Intel is catching up and deciding it is time to make it a standard, too.

A funny note on the whole USB thing. Does anyone know who DEVELOPED USB? None other than Intel. lol. Developed by PC companies, yet still not adopted. Hence why we like macs. They have it all together!

Two corrections:

1. Macs never had parallel printer ports.

2. No so much a correction as a clarification: Intel bought USB from its original developer. For what it is worth, USB on Wintel had (has?) a reputation of being notoriously flaky. My experience with a WinXP laptop a couple of weekends ago lead me to believe that is still the case.

 

[MisterMe]

Originally posted by mrjamin
I do hate to shatter your ideas here, but i have a friend who works in the Wireless dept of (coughs) intel. They've been sitting on the 11.g standard for ages because of the huge incompatibility problems. Basically, from what i understand, during the development of 11g, networking gear manufacturers had a basic idea of how 11g would work, so they put together a range of so called 11g wifi gear, which does work (80% of the time) with the completeled 11g standard. BUT 11g changed its workings towards the end of the completion of the project (i don't know too much about this kinda thing btw) so the 11g 'standard' that everyone thought would be, was not! So there's a load of 11g stuff out there that doesn't work with other 11g stuff. Apple, unfortunately, is one of the ones who jumped on the boat a little too early. From what my friend has said, intel were waiting to see the outcome of the 11g thing before they unveiled they new range of wifi gear. Basically, on the horizon are Centrino notebooks and pcmcia cards that comply with 11b, 11g AND the upcoming 11a standards 11a uses a different frequency to 11g/b so these new cards/machines will be dual band (11a runs on a different frequency). AND, get this, these newer centrino notebooks/cards come with GPRS and autoswitching Bluetooth- then eventually 3G. pretty impressive if you ask me. 11a is supposedly going to be replacing 11g, for many reasons, one of the factors is that Bluetooth interferes big time with 11b/11g stuff since they both run at the same frequency (2.4Ghz i believe).

i *think* i'm right on this, someone please interject and correct me if i'm not.

[edit] oops, i guess i kinda glossed over yzedf's post.

Hate to shatter your confidence, but you are wrong. The fact that Intel has prototype products that are not compliant with 802.11g says nothing about Apple's shipping products. It is true that Airport Extreme is based on a draft standard of 802.11g. There may very well be differences in the final standard. However, those differences will be minor, at worst. The installed base will be brought into compliance by a free firmware update.

You have to understand something very important. Standards organizations do not operate in a vacuum and not staffed by disinterested third parties. They are staffed by people who have a vested interest in the standard. As Airport Extreme is the largest implementation of the draft 802.11g standard, you can rest assured that the final standard will hew very closely to the current version of Airport Extreme.

 

[patrick0brien]

Originally posted by bennetsaysargh
thanks, but 54 kbps?

-bennetsaysargh

Whoops! Good catch

<who was the idiot who put the "k" next to the "m"?>

 

[mrjamin]

Originally posted by KingArthur
From what I have heard, there is only one advantage to 11a: range. It apparently has a much larger operational range, but at the same time, I have heard that there are a LOT of kinks to work out with it. A friend that worked at the IT department at the University of Dayton (where I use to attend) who has been on the front running of their wireless ventures explained to me one time the draw-backs that they are going to have by choosing a company that is going to supply them with 11a. I'll see if I can hook up with him again sometime and find out why it is such a bad idea.

hmm, interesting - as far as i'm aware the range is actually less than 11b/g

 

[bennetsaysargh]

Originally posted by patrick0brien
-bennetsaysargh

Whoops! Good catch

<who was the idiot who put the "k" next to the "m"?>

i guess it was the person who made the first typewriter. or maybe the layout of the keys has evolved over time.

only time will tell...


i think

 

[mrjamin]

Originally posted by MisterMe
Hate to shatter your confidence, but you are wrong....

thanks for correcting me - you didn't shatter by confidence as i wasnt confident to start with! Like i said, i don't know too much about the topic. I hope that some of what i said was useful

 

[Wyrm]

Great call by Apple

I guess Steve Jobs laments he (Apple) didn't see the popularity of CDRW technology, but wireless was one thing Apple did get very right! I burn a CDRW like once a month (ok ok, maybe it's low, but not a big thing for me).

I got my Pismo in 2000 with AirMac (called that here in Japan - "AirPort" is owned by someone else, like the government or something) - 3 years ago! Not only that, but the WiFi card is INSIDE the computer - not dangling out - waiting to be snapped off.
I use wireless EVERYDAY! (kinda hard not to)

The phone company (NTT) even wondered how it worked with no cables when they hooked up DSL in 2001 (well, one did and his partner said something to the effect of "it's Wireless you id-jiit!").

So - with that said, I think Apple knows "WiFi" well, and made the right choice going with G - good range, good compatibility.

Re: USB
Didn't Steve comment on that during the unveiling of the iPod? That USB2 support is coming for Windows, but the software testing is taking more time... being a less stable, etc....

Re: Parallel port
Oooh - historical trivia... didn't the Mac use a Mac Printer port or something like that? Was it round? Much better connector than the parallel monster (IEEE1284 - well that's the new one, I don't know what the old old old one was - Centronics or something?).

 

[KingArthur]

Originally posted by MisterMe
Two corrections:

1. Macs never had parallel printer ports.

2. No so much a correction as a clarification: Intel bought USB from its original developer. For what it is worth, USB on Wintel had (has?) a reputation of being notoriously flaky. My experience with a WinXP laptop a couple of weekends ago lead me to believe that is still the case.

Sorry, I forgot about that one. They just used the round serial ports for printers. *smacks self on forehead*

Well, when it comes to USB for Windows, you have to install a driver for EACH port. One installation of a device doesn't cover every port. I found this out with my optical mouse and USB printer. They weren't interchangable unless you wanted to reinstall the drivers. It pissed me off.

 

[bennetsaysargh]

that has to be the stupidest thing i have ever heard! not even windows is that dumb (or at least i thought)

 

[destroyboredom]

i just wanted to throw in my 02 cents here. Intel has apparently advertised very well, but is misconveying what centrino really is.

while its true it has built in wireless, centrino encompasses more than just that. Its processor is a brand new architecture, different from the p4 and the mobile m, the motherboard is also brand new, different chipset, ect... All this is what allows for the greater processing speeds and long battery life. Centrino isn't simply intel wireless.

I work in the "channel" for a major computer parts disti ( http://www.dandh.com ) here in the US and we were trained on centrino a month before the release.

 

[bennetsaysargh]

Originally posted by destroyboredom
i just wanted to throw in my 02 cents here. Intel has apparently advertised very well, but is misconveying what centrino really is.

while its true it has built in wireless, centrino encompasses more than just that. Its processor is a brand new architecture, different from the p4 and the mobile m, the motherboard is also brand new, different chipset, ect... All this is what allows for the greater processing speeds and long battery life. Centrino isn't simply intel wireless.

I work in the "channel" for a major computer parts disti ( http://www.dandh.com ) here in the US and we were trained on centrino a month before the release.

i had no idea that it was like that. thanks for stating this, or i woldn't have known that.

 

[MisterMe]

Originally posted by destroyboredom
i just wanted to throw in my 02 cents here. Intel has apparently advertised very well, but is misconveying what centrino really is.

while its true it has built in wireless, centrino encompasses more than just that. Its processor is a brand new architecture, different from the p4 and the mobile m, the motherboard is also brand new, different chipset, ect... All this is what allows for the greater processing speeds and long battery life. Centrino isn't simply intel wireless.

I work in the "channel" for a major computer parts disti ( http://www.dandh.com ) here in the US and we were trained on centrino a month before the release.

What to play a game?

Setup: Let's take two Wintel laptop users. User Steve just bought the best Centrino laptop available. User Bill bought the best Wintel laptop available 6 months ago. Bill also bought and inserted a Wi-Fi PC card into his laptop. Steve and Bill wander around a Wi-Fi hotspot.

Toss-Up: What can Steve do that Bill cannot do?

 

[KingArthur]

Originally posted by MisterMe
What to play a game?

Setup: Let's take two Wintel laptop users. User Steve just bought the best Centrino laptop available. User Bill bought the best Wintel laptop available 6 months ago. Bill also bought and inserted a Wi-Fi PC card into his laptop. Steve and Bill wander around a Wi-Fi hotspot.

Toss-Up: What can Steve do that Bill cannot do?

Use his laptop for more than two hours on battery

 

[patrick0brien]

Originally posted by MisterMe
Toss-Up: What can Steve do that Bill cannot do?

-MisterMe

Fold her up and put it into his bag.

Bill would bust the WiFi card.

as for...

Originally posted by destroyboredom while its true it has built in wireless, centrino encompasses more than just that. Its processor is a brand new architecture, different from the p4 and the mobile m, the motherboard is also brand new, different chipset, ect... All this is what allows for the greater processing speeds and long battery life. Centrino isn't simply intel wireless. [/B]

-destroyboredom

You are absolutely correct. However, let's think like a <PC> sheep here. The most visible aspect to Centrino is the wireless capabilities. So Intel is going to tout it.

I can't see Intel beating the drum on the fact they created a Mhz myth: the Cenrino performs the same work as a Pentium 4M at twice the speed.

Sorry. I'm in the scotch again - you don't know how long it took to write/edit this post.

 

[destroyboredom]

pat-

i realize how the pc sheep think...i deal with them daily. it just seemed most people here had the wrong idea on what centrino was and i felt the need to clarify.

centrino is meant for the very mobile user..not the guy who buys a laptop and has it plugged in 90% of the time (like me)

 

[KingArthur]

One question about the whole Centrino thing, then. Why is it that Dell had P4 Centrino laptop (at least that is what they say). I wanted to make sure my g/f got a good laptop for her money, so I wanted her to get a Pentium M laptop. From my understanding of what you are saying, the Pentuim M is part of the Centrino package, yet there were P4s laptops that at first confused me b/c they had the Centrino logo. How is Intel and the sellers distinguishing for Centrino. Are they doing like they did with the whole calling the FSBus the System Bus? They need to pick one and stop trying to confuse people (although that is how they make their money).

 

[acj]

mistake

Originally posted by KingArthur
One question about the whole Centrino thing, then. Why is it that Dell had P4 Centrino laptop (at least that is what they say). I wanted to make sure my g/f got a good laptop for her money, so I wanted her to get a Pentium M laptop. From my understanding of what you are saying, the Pentuim M is part of the Centrino package, yet there were P4s laptops that at first confused me b/c they had the Centrino logo. How is Intel and the sellers distinguishing for Centrino. Are they doing like they did with the whole calling the FSBus the System Bus? They need to pick one and stop trying to confuse people (although that is how they make their money).

This was a mistake. Typo or other.

 

[yzedf]

go to the source...

Originally posted by KingArthur
One question about the whole Centrino thing, then. Why is it that Dell had P4 Centrino laptop (at least that is what they say). I wanted to make sure my g/f got a good laptop for her money, so I wanted her to get a Pentium M laptop. From my understanding of what you are saying, the Pentuim M is part of the Centrino package, yet there were P4s laptops that at first confused me b/c they had the Centrino logo. How is Intel and the sellers distinguishing for Centrino. Are they doing like they did with the whole calling the FSBus the System Bus? They need to pick one and stop trying to confuse people (although that is how they make their money).

http://www.intel.com/network/connectivity/products/platform/

 

[QCassidy352]

I thought I read in the tech section of the Boston Globe when these Centrino laptops were first coming out that they had lots of advantages (like wi-fi and great battery life) but that they were *slower* than P4 based laptops, and that computer makers were trying to gloss over this point.

But several people here have said how fast these processors are. Was the article I read just incorrect?

 

[Huked on Fonick]

Originally posted by mrjamin
get this, these newer centrino notebooks/cards come with GPRS and autoswitching Bluetooth- then eventually 3G. pretty impressive if you ask me. 11a is supposedly going to be replacing 11g, for many reasons, one of the factors is that Bluetooth interferes big time with 11b/11g stuff since they both run at the same frequency (2.4Ghz i believe).
yzedf's post.

First off Bluetooth does not interfear at all with Airport, for while they are on the same spectrum they are on different channels, same thing with cordless phones that 2.4ghz but those can run on the same channels.

As for a GPRS enable centrino i cant wait to see it but i dought i will, and it would rain crazy amounts of power(plus its sooo soooo).....and 3G thats along ways off here in america, its JUST starting to hit eurpose as far as i know ATT Wirelessis the only company with 3g plans in place.....and there not scheduled to be done till like 2006 or 7 or something...

 

[Chimaera]

Originally posted by KingArthur
Sorry, I forgot about that one. They just used the round serial ports for printers. *smacks self on forehead*

Well, when it comes to USB for Windows, you have to install a driver for EACH port. One installation of a device doesn't cover every port. I found this out with my optical mouse and USB printer. They weren't interchangable unless you wanted to reinstall the drivers. It pissed me off.

Sounds like you've got a buggered windows installation there as you absolutely do not have to do that under *any* flavor of windows that has USB support (although I do agree that USB under 9x was pretty flaky but those days are long gone thankfully).

PC has had wireless networking for years too, its just not been a major feature of PC systems - incidentally a lot of laptops have mini-PCI slots that can have wi-fi NICs installed internally, just like the powerbooks - you don't *have* to use a PCMCIA formfactor one.

 

[ktlx]

Centrino is three things...

Originally posted by KingArthur
One question about the whole Centrino thing, then. Why is it that Dell had P4 Centrino laptop (at least that is what they say). I wanted to make sure my g/f got a good laptop for her money, so I wanted her to get a Pentium M laptop. From my understanding of what you are saying, the Pentuim M is part of the Centrino package, yet there were P4s laptops that at first confused me b/c they had the Centrino logo.

There cannot be Pentium 4-based notebooks with the Centrino label.

In order to use the Centrino label, a notebook manufacturer must use the Pentium M processor, the Intel 855 chipset and the Intel PRO/Wireless 2100 network chip. The wireless connection is only part of the puzzle.

Because the Centrino chip only supports 802.11b at this time, several manufacturers are releasing Pentium M based laptops with another wireless networking chip to get either 802.11a and/or 802.11g support. These notebooks cannot use the Centrino label even if they use the Pentium M and Intel 855 chipset because they don't use the complete package. They have to call themselves Pentium M notebooks.

From things I have read, Intel did not choose either of the faster wireless networking options because Centrino notebooks are targetted toward business professionals. Enterprise CIOs are notoriously conservative and are hesitant to adopt incomplete and/or incompatible standards like 802.11g and 802.11a. There was no significant upside to Intel taking a risk and supporting 802.11g before the standard was finished.