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Please stop claiming EV is saving the planet. These cars are significantly more environmentally detrimental due to mining resources for the batteries alone and currently something like 25% of total global carbon emissions comes from producing electricity today. EV could be a solution in the future, but today they are only a burden on an aging energy grid that is too slow to change to renewable non-polluting sources of energy. EV today is for pretentious ass-hats that don't have a clue about the planet while thinking their $100k car is saving it.

It's not about saving the planet. Never has been.
 
I wonder if it's the ethanol content. My late father-in-law ran a few very successful gas stations since the 1950's and there was something he told me once about how the leaded fuel/zero ethanol gas was better for the engines that were designed for that spec. But also that a lot of new vehicles being released were "calibrated" or otherwise "firmware-locked" to run like crap unless you were putting in what is essentially an "artificially high" octane to get a particular performance. (A real feat would be to get those Hellcats, etc. to run on regular gas.) People would drive their Hummers and Escalades into his station, want them filled, then they would bitch about the PPG. He had this cool ski-boat and we'd fill it up at this riverside boat-fuel station. He told me that stuff was totally ethanol-free because otherwise you'd ruin the engine. So when in doubt, just go with the sticker on the fuel door. Hey kids, don't use acetone! ;)

Ethanol can be rough on fuel lines but most cars are plumbed for it now. If you are talking airplanes, most of those engines require leaded fuel, not because of octane (low compression engines) but because the valves will foul on unleaded. If you want to get your hands on some of that 100 octane leaded stuff for your classic car visit your local airport. Be prepared to carry it off in a gerry can and pay at least a dollar more a gallon than premium unleaded.

Since I became an EV driver this is starting to become obsolete knowledge.
 
Please stop claiming EV is saving the planet. These cars are significantly more environmentally detrimental due to mining resources for the batteries alone and currently something like 25% of total global carbon emissions comes from producing electricity today. EV could be a solution in the future, but today they are only a burden on an aging energy grid that is too slow to change to renewable non-polluting sources of energy. EV today is for pretentious ass-hats that don't have a clue about the planet while thinking their $100k car is saving it.

This is actually far from accurate... current energy production techniques require the production of "excess" energy, specifically energy that is there in case people need to power up different appliances but if these appliances are not powered up, that energy goes to waste. This is because the method for generating electricity is extremely slow responding and made of large generators that take time to bring online / ramp up. This means at any one time, the amount of electricity being generated is up to 25% more than is actually used. That is electricity that goes to waste. With the relatively few electric cars on the market AND the ability to schedule the charging cycle, these cars can take advantage of this normally wasted electricity, thus significantly reducing the carbon footprint. That combined with a majority of these car owners investing in solar panels and Telsa itself investing in solar panels for all of their charging stations, your argument loses all of its weight. It simply isn't true and moving forward these cars will become more and more environmentally friendly. In the end, it looks like the only asshat here is the one blindly criticizing a technology created for the sole purpose of reducing carbon footprints over the long term.
 
I would have to remind you the latest Singapore case with Tesla Model S. The guy who tried import his Tesla from HK also tried to get custom taxes reduced for low pollution. He was actually fined $10K for his car being highly polluting. Singapore authorities converted energy consumption into carbon emission per mile, and that car has that emission is higher that for petrol vehicles.

Yes, oil is problematic. No, electricity is not a panacea.
Here is an article that puts electric cars on par with the most fuel efficient gas powered cars. - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/green-living-blog/2011/jan/17/electric-car-emissions.

From what I've read, it all boils down to where the electricity comes from. From coal it is more polluting, but Singapore only has one coal power station I believe. through to the other extreme of renewable such as solar to charge which would make a car much better than the most efficient petrol cars.
 
Please stop claiming EV is saving the planet. These cars are significantly more environmentally detrimental due to mining resources for the batteries alone and currently something like 25% of total global carbon emissions comes from producing electricity today. EV could be a solution in the future, but today they are only a burden on an aging energy grid that is too slow to change to renewable non-polluting sources of energy. EV today is for pretentious ass-hats that don't have a clue about the planet while thinking their $100k car is saving it.
Please stop regurgitating the anti-EV fabrications. Lithium mining is less damaging to the environment that mining the resources for ICE cars. I mean, those engine blocks have to come from SOMEWHERE, don't they?

And the "moving the carbon footprint to the powerplant" argument is also a crock. An ICE has best-case efficiency of 25% for converting a fossil fuel into actual motion. The rest is lost in heat. Due to the economies of scale, even a coal-fired electrical plant produces motion (via electricity) with less emission. The plant has the luxuries of economies of scale and dedicated, stationary anti-pollution technology.

Oh - and that lithium for the battery pack? It's recyclable.

Where I live (New England) our power comes most from nuclear, natural gas and hydro. Not much coal in the mix and even that amount of coal is diminishing.

This "pretentious ass-hat" is putting his money where his mouth is. I have a reservation for two Tesla Model 3 cars - costing less than half the $100K you mention. I look forward to not having to change the oil, service the radiator (or replace it), check the transmission fluid, replace a water pump or a serpentine belt, pay $1000 to replace a catalytic converter or replace a blown head gasket. Oh, and having brakes that last more than 3 times longer than in an ICE car because regenerative braking uses the electric motor to slow the car (recharging the battery in the process) and saving wear and tear on the brake pads because they are used infrequently.
 
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Make a car that maxes out at 100mph, has ok power, has auto parking or at least drive assist (lane warnings, front/rear collision detection), doesn't look like a pill, and finally doesnt cost 50-200k and Ill be interested. These EVs are just toys for people who live in fancy neighborhoods to drive around in.
Chevy Volt as well as the Bolt

The cost and weight of Li-ion batteries have come down dramatically in the past few years, and figure to continue to decline. The Chevy Bolt holds 60Kwh of batteries in a car that sells for $30k. That wasn't possible a year or so ago. Battery energy density doesn't compare to fossil fuels and likely never can, since in effect, fossil fuels are storing millions of years of energy in the carbon. But they don't really need to achieve the same density given that electric propulsion is vastly more energy efficient. The loss to heat for electric is around 5% compared to around 70% for combustion.

I don't know that Tesla necessarily proved anything about electric motors that we didn't already know. They are inherently very quick to deliver torque.
Tesla proved that folks are willing to buy EVs for a high price if the performance and range are acceptable. Otherwise the Nissan Leaf, et al, would have been selling like gangbusters....
 
Folks like to ignore their own bias.

Fact is, both technologies have environmental impacts. Fossil fuels is perceived to be a greater impact because it's the current mainstream with few EV vehicles, but imagine the reverse and you will have enormous environmental impacts from mining cobalt, nickel and other harmful chemicals in the production of Li-Ion batteries and then in the recycling/EOL portion of the battery, which currently occurs around 100K miles. Gas and especially Diesel engines last a multiple of miles longer than EV batteries.

Many, many Prius cars with more than 200,000 miles still on the same batteries. We have one that is at 155,000 with no issues. Where are you getting your information re: 100K?
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I agree electric cars don't save the planet - but I don't care. I still want one because they are no worse for the planet (or are so close on the good/bad scales it hardly matters) and in 10 years will be running on solar power and run quiet with less breakable parts.

Glass recycling is not beneficial.

Remember, even if the financial aspects of recycling glass are not clear (and they're not), you are removing a massive amount of non-degradable material from the dumps. That is not insignificant.
 
Tesla proved that folks are willing to buy EVs for a high price if the performance and range are acceptable. Otherwise the Nissan Leaf, et al, would have been selling like gangbusters....

Not sure what gangbusters means, but altogether EVs account for less than 1% of the automotive market, so it is still a very specialized segment and is likely to be for some time. What Tesla proved is a market for super-luxury EVs. They know that market isn't bottomless, hence, the Model 3.
 
The cost and weight of Li-ion batteries have come down dramatically in the past few years, and figure to continue to decline. The Chevy Bolt holds 60Kwh of batteries in a car that sells for $30k. That wasn't possible a year or so ago. Battery energy density doesn't compare to fossil fuels and likely never can, since in effect, fossil fuels are storing millions of years of energy in the carbon. But they don't really need to achieve the same density given that electric propulsion is vastly more energy efficient. The loss to heat for electric is around 5% compared to around 70% for combustion.

I don't know that Tesla necessarily proved anything about electric motors that we didn't already know. They are inherently very quick to deliver torque.

I think Tesla provided a compelling difference to what most people thought of and experienced with electric motored cars to-date. Every other electric car has been, and for most continues to be, a slower and almost boring alternative to internal combustion engined vehicles.

Frankly, I find it strange that short-drive heavy equipment vehicles, including garbage trucks, in-town delivery trucks and the like haven't been developed using the benefits that electric motors provide - specifically huge torque numbers at low rpm. They could / should have small displacement diesel engines operating as a range extenders, and plug in at night.
 
I look forward to affordable EVs and solar energy adoption in the U.S.A., the sooner the better!
 
I think Tesla provided a compelling difference to what most people thought of and experienced with electric motored cars to-date. Every other electric car has been, and for most continues to be, a slower and almost boring alternative to internal combustion engined vehicles.

Frankly, I find it strange that short-drive heavy equipment vehicles, including garbage trucks, in-town delivery trucks and the like haven't been developed using the benefits that electric motors provide - specifically huge torque numbers at low rpm. They could / should have small displacement diesel engines operating as a range extenders, and plug in at night.

I'm not sure Tesla really did all that. Maybe they showed a compelling difference compared to some of the hybrids, or the doggy EVs (such as the Leaf), and added a cool factor to EVs that was absent before. I haven't driven them myself but owners of the Volt and even the puny Spark rave about their performance. The Bolt may not have the cool factor of a Tesla but it isn't slow or dull to drive.

You make a really good point about fleet type vehicles used for local duty. I guess it isn't sexy for the car manufacturers to get into the electric garbage truck business. Maybe this is another legacy of Tesla, and explains why Faraday gets so much attention for a car that may very well never be built, and even if it is, few will be able to afford.
 
Tesla killer my sweet patutti
The dam thing costs $180,000 !!!!!!!!!
This may be the smartest car about but its cost to feature benefit not only hits the flat line but goes off the chart.

Want to save the planet make an EV that can go 500 miles on a charge and can drop it's battery for a fully charged one in under 60 seconds.
 
I'm not sure Tesla really did all that. Maybe they showed a compelling difference compared to some of the hybrids, or the doggy EVs (such as the Leaf), and added a cool factor to EVs that was absent before. I haven't driven them myself but owners of the Volt and even the puny Spark rave about their performance. The Bolt may not have the cool factor of a Tesla but it isn't slow or dull to drive.

You make a really good point about fleet type vehicles used for local duty. I guess it isn't sexy for the car manufacturers to get into the electric garbage truck business. Maybe this is another legacy of Tesla, and explains why Faraday gets so much attention for a car that may very well never be built, and even if it is, few will be able to afford.

Once you've driven, or even ride in, a Tesla, you'll understand why people get enamored with them. None of the other mainstream EV's comes close to the performance of the model S or X. It is sad how there is the same dynamic with Tesla and the love / hate feelings it seems to create that Apple has, especially with Americans. You have a guy who created, basically from the ground up, a new car company, a new kind of car, yet people disparage Elon and Tesla as a waste of money. I'm not saying we should raise him up on a pedestal, but recognizing that what he's doing is going to change the entire market for the better should be a starting point.

I'm not sure the lack of change to electric power for the medium to heavy duty vehicle use is based upon these markets not being sexy, but rather I believe it is an issue of change itself and most people and companies do not want to change. My company is going through similar challenges, trying to bring a new technology and product into an even more mature market - forest products (wood). From the top brass of companies not willing to invest in and try something new (fearing loss of share value), to the workers who have been doing things the way they were taught for decades, unwilling to change (for fear of failing or losing their jobs), but it only takes one person or company to see the light (we thankfully have several) and eventually this drastic shift will become the norm - again just like how Apple changed the cell phone market.
 
Chevy Volt as well as the Bolt

Tesla proved that folks are willing to buy EVs for a high price if the performance and range are acceptable. Otherwise the Nissan Leaf, et al, would have been selling like gangbusters....

Volt is ugly as hell.
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They are designed to fulfill an individual need to show off. I get fast cars, I really do. But we should not pretend that building yet another very fast and very costly EV is of any real consequence in terms of satisfying the need of more than a handful of individuals.
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Chevrolet Bolt EV.
You being serious? This thing is hideous. Im asking for a body style like a Jetta.


2016-chevrolet-bolt-electric-vehicle-updates-648x245-01.png
 
Once you've driven, or even ride in, a Tesla, you'll understand why people get enamored with them. None of the other mainstream EV's comes close to the performance of the model S or X. It is sad how there is the same dynamic with Tesla and the love / hate feelings it seems to create that Apple has, especially with Americans. You have a guy who created, basically from the ground up, a new car company, a new kind of car, yet people disparage Elon and Tesla as a waste of money. I'm not saying we should raise him up on a pedestal, but recognizing that what he's doing is going to change the entire market for the better should be a starting point.

I'm not sure the lack of change to electric power for the medium to heavy duty vehicle use is based upon these markets not being sexy, but rather I believe it is an issue of change itself and most people and companies do not want to change. My company is going through similar challenges, trying to bring a new technology and product into an even more mature market - forest products (wood). From the top brass of companies not willing to invest in and try something new (fearing loss of share value), to the workers who have been doing things the way they were taught for decades, unwilling to change (for fear of failing or losing their jobs), but it only takes one person or company to see the light (we thankfully have several) and eventually this drastic shift will become the norm - again just like how Apple changed the cell phone market.

I have done both. I see the appeal, but the price tag is lunacy. I neither love or hate Tesla. It's foolish to have emotional attachments to any company. Being new to EVs I've found a surprising level of emotional attachment to Tesla.

Tesla knows they have to price cars in the range where a much broader part of the market can afford them if their business model is to be sustainable. The Model 3 is supposed to go there, but it's still a year or more off, and the car will have to be more reliable than some of their existing cars. It really bugs Tesla fans that GM got to this market first.

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You being serious? This thing is hideous. Im asking for a body style like a Jetta.

The Jetta is hideous. Keep asking and good luck with that.
 
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