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Wifi router market has been dying for some time. After people initially bought one, there's little reason to buy a new one for years.

Now to revive sales, router makers are coming up with these new setups and pushing them as must-haves.

The reality is that a standard 802.11n router is more than fast enough for almost all users. Very very few will see any benefit from these new routers. But that won't stop them from making you believe that you'll see huge benefits from dropping $500 on a new setup.

Routers are popular. I don't know where your assumption comes from.
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Anyone know if these systems (Google or Linksys) can be configured as access points instead of routers? I have a VPN router I don't intend on replacing. I need something that can cover a large house but be just access points.

Avoid Google Wifi for now it doesn't bridge. Eero and Luma bridge. I think the Orbi does as well.
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I switched from Apple to eero in September. This product by linksys is basically the same and priced the same. I can tell you that my eero mesh network is amazingly better than the Apple setup I had. It will be interesting to see how this compares to eero, which was the best I could find at the time and am happy to have purchased. The other great thing with eero is that they have upgrade the product twice via software/firmware pushes so they actually are getting better.

This should be faster than Eero which is AC1200 Dual Band.
 
How did that work for you? I've tried various configurations of Airport Expresses dotted around my house to boost the signal from my Airport Extreme (all on the same network), the problem I always encountered would be that devices would "cling" to an Express as long as it had a single, no matter how weak, rather than automatically switch to the Express/Extreme with the strongest signal as I moved round the house.

My current set up is a main Extreme and a remote Express - both wired via ethernet to a central router (so AP mode only for the airports), broadcasting same SSID (in 2.4 and 5Ghz). - the concept is sometimes called Wifi roaming and in theory should work. However I noticed the stickiness problem as well, when roaming, causing me to experiment with an Asus/Netgear AP set up for 12 mos. I had the same issues on that set up so I was considering going mesh.

I recently switched back to the Airports. Everything is working perfectly. Not sure if the change was in iOS10 (I thought I remembered reading something in the release notes) - but life is good. No need to drop $$ on new hardware. Works so well that I sold the Asus and Netgear kit. I don't even mind the lack of 802.11ac on the Express.
 
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I am amused that the Velop has a design "inspired" by the Apple routers, but that point aside, security and management.

I've used Apple base stations since they were first released and have been very happy with them. I currently have an Airport 3GB Time Capsule and it works fine throughout the house including basement.

So I have two questions:

How secure are the devices, the IOT has been devices like these have been exploited by hackers. Apple pays attention to this, does Linksys?

I can manage my devices with Airport on iOS and MacOS, apparently some level of iOS management is available as an app, how good is it and is there a MacOS version (hopefully not browser based)?

Finally, regarding Apple product line WiFi is like printers, displays, etc., when Apple believes it can provide or needs to provide products to satisfy customer needs and it can do something special and distinctive it builds them. However, market, technology, user needs, etc., evolves to the point that the market producers best meet this need, Apple moves on.

I suspect if not this time, then eventually, Apple will move on and let others do WiFi routers, base stations etc.

I miss the quality and product integration of Apple printers and displays, but these have becoming more marginal nitch devices that are increasing less important. Only the Pro and mini need a separate display, so only multi-screen demand and much fewer stand alone CPUs make Apple designed displays relevant.
 
This should be faster than Eero which is AC1200 Dual Band.

I have a row house in the city with three floors above ground and a basement. The eero configuration (two on the ground floor and two on the second floor) gives me great coverage and speed. I have zero issues at this point. I guess if I ever decide to stream 4k, I may need more speed, but for now I am a happy camper. Bottom line, it is good to see that mesh networks are coming out. Apple is rumored to have quite the router business. If they decide to stay in the business, they will really need to look at what is happening in this space because their current offering does not work for anything other than a small apartment IMHO, compared to what these vendors are doing.
 
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I like how everyone else is coming out with these cool routers (Linksys, Google, and some others) while Apple is allegedly exiting the business. Bummer.

Likely because Apple has decided to partner with someone, if you ask me.
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I have a row house in the city with three floors above ground and a basement. The eero configuration (two on the ground floor and two on the second floor) gives me great coverage and speed. I have zero issues at this point. I guess if I ever decide to stream 4k, I may need more speed, but for now I am a happy camper. Bottom line, it is good to see that mesh networks are coming out. Apple is rumored to have quite the router business. If they decide to stay in the business, they will really need to look at what is happening in this space because their current offering does not work for anything other than a small apartment IMHO, compared to what these vendors are doing.

Ubiquiti Networks is the primary innovator in this new mesh wifi space, and they've got what is arguably the best of the new routers with the Amplifi. It's managed the same way as an Apple device, app only - no web. And is packaged similarly.

The whole concept behind it is an extra wifi radio to create a backbone between all of the devices, rather than repeating a signal which cuts bandwidth in half per device.
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Anyone know if these systems (Google or Linksys) can be configured as access points instead of routers? I have a VPN router I don't intend on replacing. I need something that can cover a large house but be just access points.

You'll find this has better reviews than any of the other mesh routers. https://amplifi.com/
 
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A part of me thinks they are going to soon. Either that or I'm buying the google one.
They already did. It's called AirPort. The AirPort routers have had mesh capability since 2004 with the AirPort Express. They may have had it before that, I'm not sure.
 
They already did. It's called AirPort. The AirPort routers have had mesh capability since 2004 with the AirPort Express. They may have had it before that, I'm not sure.

That is not Mesh, it is WDS, and every single router on the market has been capable of it since forever. The big difference is that these new mesh routers can maintain full bandwidth no matter how many AP's you add.
 
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How did that work for you? I've tried various configurations of Airport Expresses dotted around my house to boost the signal from my Airport Extreme (all on the same network), the problem I always encountered would be that devices would "cling" to an Express as long as it had a single, no matter how weak, rather than automatically switch to the Express/Extreme with the strongest signal as I moved round the house.
Works great. I have 3 Extremes and 1 Express, all cable connected. I would not say I walk circles around the house watching movies but as I move room to room I am handed off to the router with the best signal. If I reset one of the routers, you can watch Airport Utility move devices back to that reset router that are in the area of it. It does a good job of balancing.

Each router except the main one is set in bridge mode and set to create a wireless network. All are configured with the same SSID and password.
 
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Nonsense, when you're moving files around a network a lot, Wireless AC makes a HUGE difference to transfer times. With a strong signal it can saturate gigabit ethernet connected computers. Ditto for using AirDrop to move to iOS devices and back too.

And how often do you think that happens in the average family home? Hint: almost never. Most people do nothing more than a bit of web surfing, some social networking, watch a little Netflix, and that's about it as far as their network use. Most people aren't moving files around their home network often and when they do it's not huge quantities of data. Is AC nice? Sure. But the average family won't see big benefits from this new router vs one they purchased back in 2015.
 
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I assume by mesh you are asking for the ability to spread routers/access points around the house wirelessly without any degradation to the wireless service like we see today. If I add a router wirelessly it will only provide half the rated speed because it needs half of the bandwidth to communicate with the main router and half to communicate with your device. Tri-band here is solving that it looks like.
This is sort of accurate, but misleading. WiFi is a shared medium, like Token Ring or an old wired hub. Only one station can talk on a given frequency at a time. Further, access points only have a certain number of radios. Ignoring some exotic new technologies for the moment, a single radio can only send one transmission at a time, and only one radio can be active on a channel at a time. If you have one radio, it can talk to either an upstream access point or to a client, but not both. If you have two radios, one can talk to the upstream access point while the other talks to the client.

An access point with two 2.4 GHz radios could potentially give full speed from a client to an upstream access point, but only if there is no other interference. Moving the second radio to 5 GHz lessens the likelihood of interference. This is how the dual-band AirPort access points have worked for years when you tell them to extend a wireless network.

Three-radio access points aren't exactly common. Some "enterprise" units include a third radio for constant scanning without interrupting client services. I assume consumer access points use it to have one 5 GHz radio for clients and another for a wireless link to other access points.
 
I have a row house in the city with three floors above ground and a basement. The eero configuration (two on the ground floor and two on the second floor) gives me great coverage and speed. I have zero issues at this point. I guess if I ever decide to stream 4k, I may need more speed, but for now I am a happy camper. Bottom line, it is good to see that mesh networks are coming out. Apple is rumored to have quite the router business. If they decide to stay in the business, they will really need to look at what is happening in this space because their current offering does not work for anything other than a small apartment IMHO, compared to what these vendors are doing.

No man you're golden. AC1200 is more than enough speed to handle most tasks today. It's the software that is equally as important and I like the focus of Eero on quarterly software updates (Major).

The Linksys has another 867Mbps channel so like the Orbi it'll be a bit faster for homes with a LOT of devices (read Home Automation, Cameras etc) under load but those are going to be pretty unique scenario for many people.

I have a Luma 3 router system which is also AC1200 and it's fine.
 
According to their own diagram, these don't provide a full mesh network. The diagram shows a PARTIAL mesh network. If it was a full mesh, the first router would be able to connect to all the other routers.
 
That is not Mesh, it is WDS, and every single router on the market has been capable of it since forever. The big difference is that these new mesh routers can maintain full bandwidth no matter how many AP's you add.
It may have been WDS initially, but all of the dual-band AirPort units I've seen appear to use wireless backhauling. They seem to associate with the upstream as a client, preferring 5 GHz but allowing 2.4 if needed. They then allow clients to associated with them on either 2.4 GHz or 5 GHz. That combination is how every mesh access point I have ever tested (Trapeze, Aerohive, Meru, Fortinet) works.
 
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Works great.
Each router except the main one is set in bridge mode and set to create a wireless network. All are configured with the same SSID and password.

I would say this is my experience as well.
 
I'd be curious to know how well this works compared to Google Wi-Fi.

When it's time for my next router (and my family members next routers), it'll be Google's kit or this.

Granted, it doesn't need to be blistering fast, as 50 Mbps is the fastest speeds you can get in my area anyways (or 75 Mbps U-verse DSL if you want AT&Ts awful peering) -- and a 802.11g router could almost support both of those. :p
 
Apple needs to step up and release a mesh network system.
I made my own using Apple's products that already exist. Its called "Ethernet".

Regardless of what Linksys claims, there is no way for wireless repeaters to see no loss. The only proper way to setup a home is with multiple routers connected via Ethernet. Just run it through the attic, walls, or basement.

2 should suffice for most homes.
 
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And how often do you think that happens in the average family home? Hint: almost never. Most people do nothing more than a bit of web surfing, some social networking, watch a little Netflix, and that's about it as far as their network use. Most people aren't moving files around their home network often and when they do it's not huge quantities of data. Is AC nice? Sure. But the average family won't see big benefits from this new router vs one they purchased back in 2015.

But this average family isn't build a mesh network of routers are they...they're probably just using the one they got free from their ISP and thats it at a PUSH they've put a very cheap wireless repeater in a bedroom so the kid can play their xbox or someones phone can work on the internet.

The average family you talk about aren't buying routers AT ALL, they're just using the free ones. Anyone who's buying a network, and spending serious money like this, cares very much about speeds - or should they just stick with Ethernet 100 because its fast enough for them...
 
I have friends who can't get a wi fi signal in parts of their house, so they have multiple wifi networks.
As others have said, if you configure all your access points with the same SSID and password (and different frequencies, so they don't interfere with each other) client configuration is equally simple. And portable devices can roam from AP to AP as you move about the house (although I have noticed momentary interruption when the device switches AP.)

I am told (but haven't personally experienced) that if the APs support "Fast Roaming" (802.11r protocol), then these interruptions pretty much go away. Unfortunately, this isn't a common feature yet. As far as I know, neither eero nor Ubiquity support it yet. I'd love to know if the Linksys Velop does.

These mesh networks are meant to replace scenarios under which a repeater would've previously been used. ...
But there have been alternatives all along. In my home (similar scenario), I use HomePlugAV powerline adapters in three locations, each one attached to a Wi-Fi router (2 in bridge mode) to get Wi-Fi coverage for the entire home. It's not as nice as a mesh (because the three routers need to be configured individually), but you get most of the same benefits.

And how often do you think that happens in the average family home? Hint: almost never. Most people do nothing more than a bit of web surfing, some social networking, watch a little Netflix, and that's about it as far as their network use.
You've got a low opinion of users.

You don't need to be an IT professional to benefit from high LAN bandwidth. Printing over a LAN is pretty common, and pages with a lot of graphics do use a lot of bandwidth.

People also stream media (music, photos and sometimes even videos) from one computer to another (or to a phone or to an Apple TV.)

And even if everybody's traffic is strictly Internet-bound, very high speed internet access is not uncommon these days. I just got an ad from Verizon where an $80 triple play plan is sporting 150Mbps (and higher priced options going much higher.) You don't want a crippled Wi-Fi interfering when five different people want to all stream video at once to their respective devices.

The only proper way to setup a home is with multiple routers connected via Ethernet. Just run it through the attic, walls, or basement.
Ripping open walls and ceilings (especially if you've got a 2 story home with a basement) is far more than most people are willing to do for this.

Fortunately, there are wired networks that are almost as good (and are far better than Wi-Fi range extenders), including powerline networking and MoCA.

Of course, if your walls are already open (new construction, major renovation, etc.) then yes, definitely run Ethernet. It does work best, and if you're going to be opening and closing walls anyway, there's really no downside.
 
I finally made the switch from Apple Time Capsule to AmpliFi last week (after a week trying to figure out how to bridge my Actiontec router from FiOS).

It is a BIG improvement over my time capsule (both in coverage and speed of wireless and wired network)!

I would have been happy to stay in the Apple ecosystem with a meshed wireless router offering - if only there was one ;(
 
I finally made the switch from Apple Time Capsule to AmpliFi last week (after a week trying to figure out how to bridge my Actiontec router from FiOS).

It is a BIG improvement over my time capsule (both in coverage and speed of wireless and wired network)!

I would have been happy to stay in the Apple ecosystem with a meshed wireless router offering - if only there was one ;(

I'm really interested in the Amplifi as well. Which generation time capsule did you have before?
 
You've got a low opinion of users.

You don't need to be an IT professional to benefit from high LAN bandwidth. Printing over a LAN is pretty common, and pages with a lot of graphics do use a lot of bandwidth.

People also stream media (music, photos and sometimes even videos) from one computer to another (or to a phone or to an Apple TV.)

And even if everybody's traffic is strictly Internet-bound, very high speed internet access is not uncommon these days. I just got an ad from Verizon where an $80 triple play plan is sporting 150Mbps (and higher priced options going much higher.) You don't want a crippled Wi-Fi interfering when five different people want to all stream video at once to their respective devices.

150Mbit isn't that fast when considering the speeds modern wifi is capable of. Even old 802.11n wireless, which came out in 2009, is capable of 450Mbit. More than enough to support all the Netflix most households can consume.

My point is that any old wifi router is sufficient for 99% of US households. They don't have a need for the extended coverage and 1300Mbit+ speeds these new setups offer.
 
Wifi really depends on where you live and how many devices you have hooked up. Lots of people are now cutting the chord and streaming up to 4K.

We have Wifi cameras now that can be sprinkled throughout the home. If you're just a basic user with a few devices the needs aren't there but if you have devices that are generating and consuming a lot of content/bandwidth a faster router isn't a nice to have it's essential.
 
It may have been WDS initially, but all of the dual-band AirPort units I've seen appear to use wireless backhauling. They seem to associate with the upstream as a client, preferring 5 GHz but allowing 2.4 if needed. They then allow clients to associated with them on either 2.4 GHz or 5 GHz. That combination is how every mesh access point I have ever tested (Trapeze, Aerohive, Meru, Fortinet) works.

Can AirPorts use multiple AP's to get back to the gateway and create self healing routes? Many of these mesh devices have a third radio that they devote solely to the backbone, the airports definitely do not have that. Perhaps the AirPorts were using an earlier implementation of it but definitely not all the way back in 2004 where they were using WDS for certain.
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150Mbit isn't that fast when considering the speeds modern wifi is capable of. Even old 802.11n wireless, which came out in 2009, is capable of 450Mbit. More than enough to support all the Netflix most households can consume.

My point is that any old wifi router is sufficient for 99% of US households. They don't have a need for the extended coverage and 1300Mbit+ speeds these new setups offer.

I bet that half of your 99% have the need and don't even realize it thanks to IoT. At last count, I have 52 devices on my wifi between myself and my wife - and I try to keep things as simple as possible. Just the load of those devices keeping themselves online can cause havok on a wifi network.
 
I bet that half of your 99% have the need and don't even realize it thanks to IoT. At last count, I have 52 devices on my wifi between myself and my wife - and I try to keep things as simple as possible. Just the load of those devices keeping themselves online can cause havok on a wifi network.

Please realize that if you have 52 wifi connected devices in your home you are far far far from the average user or the norm.

The average connected user has 3.64. In the US the average household is 2.58 people which means an average of 9.3912 connected devices in the average US household. Yet IoT will increase that number in the coming years but right now the vast majority of US households can get by just fine with any wireless router, including the $20 special from Amazon or the free one their cable company included with their modem.
 
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