Changes to iCloud Put Apple on Collision Course With Governments Seeking Access to Encrypted Messages

[macintoshmac]

And ten years ago, the police was completely unable to get any data stored on my phone or in the cloud because there was no data stored on my phone, and there was no cloud. So please explain to me why it is suddenly so important to read information that couldn't be read ten years ago.

I am sure you did not really mean that. 15 years ago, I had a 40GB hard drive and had 25GB free. Today I have a 256GB MBP with 140GB free, and a total of 5TB worth external disk drives with a collective free space of around 2TB. Clearly, I store a lot of data on my drives, computer and cloud now, and that makes it essential to go through all of it IF THE NEED ARISES.

The key here is first of all - if the need arises.

Secondly, governments are just getting lazier, relying on the hypothetical, potential information stored on clouds and drives. They are missing the point on actual police work, because they think it is easier to have the likes of Apple and Google create backdoors.

This is really akin to saying that:

- all paper notebooks will now come with carbon papers so that the government can see what you wrote even if you tore the paper off.

 

[Verita]

It really is an amazing state of affairs when it comes down to corporations like Apple to actually protect the rights of citizens, whilst the governments we elect are trying to undo those rights.

We should rise up and vote these jokers out of office!! Stop giving up against the masses of paranoid sheep!

 

[macintoshmac]

I feel sorry for these Apple execs having to deal with the likes of Brandis and Co. They're complete morons.

No wonder Apple isn't innovating anymore !!!

 

[lexvo]

Secondly, governments are just getting lazier, relying on the hypothetical, potential information stored on clouds and drives. They are missing the point on actual police work, because they think it is easier to have the likes of Apple and Google create backdoors.

Yes, I think they will rely too much on this big data analysis and hardly do any field work.
If I remember correctly, 20 years ago or so the US pulled a lot of agents out of the Middle East as they thought that monitoring telephone lines etc would suffice. When the trouble with Al Qaida and such started they had no eyes in the field and a shortage of Arabic speaking personnel when they needed them most.

 

[Jimmy James]

Fixing Australia.

 

[MrX8503]

We should rise up and vote these jokers out of office!! Stop giving up against the masses of paranoid sheep!

Or you know.....actually vote in the first place and for the right person into office.

 

[apolloa]

Then you're easily fooled. Not only is putting in a backdoor making the encrypted service 100% useless, and allowing every user of the service to be potentially exploited when a hacker finds the backdoor, but it's also going to push terrorists to create their own system.

You do know Apple has to and has given messages from its systems to security services already right? So your the one being fooled.

In fact the only fools on here are those that hate the idea of systems to stop terrorists and criminals and pedophiles in this world, because someone somewhere may read their text messages! Oh the horror.....

And they can keep the keys at Apple, and it would be one dumb company if it leaked them itself!

And if terrorists created their own system, erm, ISPs and providers could easily block it then.
[doublepost=1500572952][/doublepost]

This is the fight that we've all been expecting. It will be brutal and the only way for Apple to win is to enlist Apple device users.

Users have to fight for their own rights!

And unfortunately, if Apple is forced to weaken security in Australia, then the US government will force it to do so here. We in the US won't get much of a chance to fight because the US government knows it will lose if the fight is public, just like they lost round 1 with Apple. The US government will issue a sealed court order of some type and we'll never know about it until another patriot like Snowden steps up and leaks the info.

Hang on, the future is being decided right now.
[doublepost=1500561238][/doublepost]

Sad, truly sad! You should read a little history. This belief has proven itself time and time again as the fastest way to become enslaved. You might end of with a free phone and free internet, but you won't be even close to free yourself.

The solution is to force better encryption, not weaken it as the government wants to.

I'm sorry but I refuse to support more secure systems for criminals to use...

[doublepost=1500573508][/doublepost]

Fake News

This same story was planted in the US media, supposedly in an electrical plant in a New England state, but it never happened. The electric utility themselves shot down the story. The hack was done via a USB stick, not over the Internet. No Russians involved.

FACTUAL NEWS ACTUALLY:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.te...nergy-companies-election-day-gchq-claims/amp/

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....s-suspect-russian-were-behind-the-attack/amp/

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.da...ed-hackers-infiltrate-UK-s-energy-sector.html

And many other reports, none of them about the accusations being denied and none about America.

 

[tongxinshe]

The collective governments of the world have lost their minds. India and South East has suffered a lot at the hands of terrorists and it takes one guy to bomb America and governments across the entire world go crazy not over terrorism but user privacy? Insane. Whatever happened to good old police work? Intelligence agencies? Why do you need to snoop in on every bit of data transmitted in the world?

Focus on terrorism and terrorists, not try and snoop on every single citizen of the world on the premise of terrorism.

NOT everyone, repeat, NOT EVERYONE is planning a terror attack, and those who do, almost always manage a way out, while governments stay stuck in such stupid affairs in the name of prevention of terrorism and harass the general public and violate their rights.

You just nailed it. In the eyes of these Politician, or actually their behind-the-scene masters the trillionair tribes, almost everyone else are potential "terrorists", including all soldiers and dogs currently work for them. To them, only drones are truly trustworthy.

 

[chrono1081]

You do know Apple has to and has given messages from its systems to security services already right? So your the one being fooled..

Not encrypted data.

Judging by the rest of your post you're not worth arguing with. You're a very paranoid and scared person and its sad to see you're willing to give up personal freedoms because of it.

 

[apolloa]

Not encrypted data.

Judging by the rest of your post you're not worth arguing with. You're a very paranoid and scared person and its sad to see you're willing to give up personal freedoms because of it.

The irony...

No mate, I live in the real world where terrorists and criminals and peodophiles DO use the same services as you, and frankly I couldn't care less about anyone hacking into my messages if it helps stop these dispicable people, you are the paranoid one as you obviously have something to hide, let alone being so paranoid you think any thing no less then end to end encryption means your messages will be hacked into.

 

[DoctorTech]

Pull out of Australia.

I was thinking the exact same thing. Let Apple announce no more iPhone shipments to Australia because of government regulations on iOS and I will bet the law is changed before the next election in Australia.
[doublepost=1500575464][/doublepost]

Hahahaha oh the utter irony...

No mate, I live in the real world where terrorists and criminals and peodophiles DO use the same services as you, and frankly I couldn't care less about anyone hacking into my messages if it helps stop these dispicable people, you are the paranoid one as you obviously have something to hide.

There is a WORLD of difference between "having something to hide" and "not having anything you wish to share". I fall firmly in the second group. Do I think the government today is really interested in my text messages to my wife and kids? Absolutely not. Does that mean that I am OK with them having every text message, email, browsing history, and my GPS location data? Absolutely not.

You make the same arguments that I have repeatedly read from others - the government needs to be able to read EVERYONEs text messages because it might help stop a terrorist or pedophile. Do some research about how cell tower simulators (i.e. Stingrays) are being used today. It isn't just about stopping the worst of the worst, they are being used for minor, non-violent crimes as well. Automated license plate readers and EZ-Pass toll booth scanners? Yes, great for tracking catching kidnappers but also being used by divorce lawyers. There was an article about 2 years ago in the Indianapolis Star about local police who were planning to drive around a gun show in Indianapolis with a license plate scanner to build a database of people interested in firearms. The whole point is that once data is surrendered, you have zero control over who is going to get access to it in the future and what they are going to do with it.

 

[macduke]

Creating a back door will in no way stop russian backed hackers accessing our infrastructure!

In fact, creating back doors makes us more likely to get hacked by Russians in the future. They've been doing some really advanced stuff lately—so of course they'll figure out the back door and walk right in!

 

[apolloa]

I was thinking the exact same thing. Let Apple announce no more iPhone shipments to Australia because of government regulations on iOS and I will bet the law is changed before the next election in Australia.
[doublepost=1500575464][/doublepost]
There is a WORLD of difference between "having something to hide" and "not having anything you wish to share". I fall firmly in the second group. Do I think the government today is really interested in my text messages to my wife and kids? Absolutely not. Does that mean that I am OK with them having every text message, email, browsing history, and my GPS location data? Absolutely not.

You make the same arguments that I have repeatedly read from others - the government needs to be able to read EVERYONEs text messages because it might help stop a terrorist or pedophile. Do some research about how cell tower simulators (i.e. Stingrays) are being used today. It isn't just about stopping the worst of the worst, they are being used for minor, non-violent crimes as well. Automated license plate readers and EZ-Pass toll booth scanners? Yes, great for tracking catching kidnappers but also being used by divorce lawyers. There was an article about 2 years ago in the Indianapolis Star about local police who were planning to drive around a gun show in Indianapolis with a license plate scanner to build a database of people interested in firearms. The whole point is that once data is surrendered, you have zero control over who is going to get access to it in the future and what they are going to do with it.

Your first post is so utterly ridiculous it devalues anything else you said, and thankfully I don't live in a country where the things you describe exist. We have the technologies but not the access you claim, it shows nothing but selfishness and paranoya that the rest of the world must think the same and have the same because of what happens in your own country.

 

[Ghost31]

With the tax dodging they've been doing and refusing to give up or admit was wrong in any shape or form I wouldn't put them in the "good" camp, the "gray" camp maybe, but not the "good" camp.

Holy crap a corporation avoided paying taxes?? They're definitely evil then! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING

 

[apolloa]

These two things have very little in common. The only parallel is that an intentional back door is likely to increase chances of being hacked.

Creating a back door will in no way stop russian backed hackers accessing our infrastructure!

Yes, the Russian government would be straight into YOUR messages reading all of them
As for little in common, they are both based on hacking and NOT TAX AVOIDENCE, so it's a lot more relevant thank you, point being their are far more advanced hacking techniques that occur then anyone hacking your text messages.. yet people deem the least important one demanding the highest of high security??????

 

[triptolemus]

The irony...

No mate, I live in the real world where terrorists and criminals and peodophiles DO use the same services as you,

The part you are refusing to acknowledge is that weakening (eliminating) encryption on those services removes privacy for everyone and will simply drive the your terrorists and criminals to other methods of encrypted communication. This is not a difficult concept. Please think about it. AES is an open standard and not terribly difficult to implement. If you think "terrorists" are a bunch of desert-dwelling neanderthals, you need to wake up. Remember, they don't need to keep information encrypted forever, just long enough to carry out the particular mission. They are more than capable of implementing secure systems outside of iPhone and have probably done so already anyway.

You are a fool if you believe taking away encrypted communications from the public at-large will be any impediment whatsoever to terrorist organizations.

 

[Tech198]

Oh crap.. how did i know this was coming? oh ya, because I live in Australia,and Australia is "part of the world." hehe.

I hope we won't see a repeat of the U.S and Apple lobby's for the same reasons. This is what happens when u have encryption u want yourself, it interferes with the changes of laws. In fact, it weakens the laws, not makes them better.

There is no balance anymore.

 

[LordVic]

The irony...

No mate, I live in the real world where terrorists and criminals and peodophiles DO use the same services as you, and frankly I couldn't care less about anyone hacking into my messages if it helps stop these dispicable people, you are the paranoid one as you obviously have something to hide, let alone being so paranoid you think any thing no less then end to end encryption means your messages will be hacked into.

oh, the amazing argument "If you're not with us, you're with the Pedophiles!"

don't take this mindset. yes, Pedo's use internet. yes, so do terrorist. But this binary, divisive, and hateful position to take is how "bad guys" win. it's how governments get to convince you, and the masses, the 99.99% of the population that does nothing, to sign away their rights to catch the "boogeyman"

in a bout of Irony
we had a politician who made that very speech in parliament. "you're either with us or you're with the pedophiles" for increasing the powers the government had to snoop.
He was later forced to resign when it was discovered he knocked up his 15 year old babysitter.

Further Irony to your own statement:
Canada has managed to thwart several potential terrorist attacks in Canada, all without police snooping/spying powers. They did so by proper investigation, and establishing report with the local religious leaders, who, because they trust the RCMP, turned over their own members who they discovered were threats. Proving that you don't need advanced spying techniques to route out state sponsored terrorists


Any politician who attempts to use binary divisive politic talking poitns such as "think of the kids" or any other fear tactic to pass some form of law that diminishes the rights of individuals is in it for their own power. Not for the society they're supposed to represent.

 

[Tech198]

i don't mind changes on the condition the government won't abuse them.. If they are just saying that, and not based on history,then ok,. but if the government cannot change (at all) then forget it.

Up till now, we are only using history as an example going forward, which is not the right way to look at it.

 

[apolloa]

oh, the amazing argument "If you're not with us, you're with the Pedophiles!"

don't take this mindset. yes, Pedo's use internet. yes, so do terrorist. But this binary, divisive, and hateful position to take is how "bad guys" win. it's how governments get to convince you, and the masses, the 99.99% of the population that does nothing, to sign away their rights to catch the "boogeyman"

in a bout of Irony
we had a politician who made that very speech in parliament. "you're either with us or you're with the pedophiles" for increasing the powers the government had to snoop.
He was later forced to resign when it was discovered he knocked up his 15 year old babysitter.

Further Irony to your own statement:
Canada has managed to thwart several potential terrorist attacks in Canada, all without police snooping/spying powers. They did so by proper investigation, and establishing report with the local religious leaders, who, because they trust the RCMP, turned over their own members who they discovered were threats. Proving that you don't need advanced spying techniques to route out state sponsored terrorists


Any politician who attempts to use binary divisive politic talking poitns such as "think of the kids" or any other fear tactic to pass some form of law that diminishes the rights of individuals is in it for their own power. Not for the society they're supposed to represent.

I'll think how I want, it's a free world. And yes you are with the sex offenders and terrorists when you refuse access to messaging services by the Police.
You need to realise outside of America people think differently about these things like in Australia. Their are big cultural differences.

 

[triptolemus]

And yes you are with the sex offenders and terrorists when you refuse access to messaging services by the Police.

Sorry, but no. Full stop.

 

[DoctorTech]

Your first post is so utterly ridiculous it devalues anything else you said, and thankfully I don't live in a country where the things you describe exist. We have the technologies but not the access you claim, it shows nothing but selfishness and paranoya that the rest of the world must think the same and have the same because of what happens in your own country.

LOL - ok, ok your phenomenal logic has won me over. You are right. What was I thinking... Who is Apple to stand up to the desires of the Australian government and the 23 million citizens they represent. We Americans are sooooo selfish

So Australia gets to decide what can and can't go into iOS 11. Then China, with their 1.34 billion people can dictate what Apple can and can't put in iOS 12. Maybe North Korea or Syria can set the rules for iOS 13

>thankfully I don't live in a country where the things you describe exist
Yes, I am also thankful you don't live here.
[doublepost=1500583840][/doublepost]

I'll think how I want, it's a free world. And yes you are with the sex offenders and terrorists when you refuse access to messaging services by the Police.
You need to realise outside of America people think differently about these things like in Australia. Their are big cultural differences.

The cultural differences aren't that big. I bet I've spent more time in Sydney than you have in the United States. You do have a beautiful country, I was particularly fond of the Blue Mountains, the wild life refuge that I visited and the Opera House (and your movie theaters blow away the theaters we have here in the Midwest). But no, valuing privacy is NOT equal to "siding with" sex offenders and terrorists. That is an intellectually dishonest argument.

 

[nt5672]

You do know Apple has to and has given messages from its systems to security services already right? So your the one being fooled.

In fact the only fools on here are those that hate the idea of systems to stop terrorists and criminals and pedophiles in this world, because someone somewhere may read their text messages! Oh the horror.....

And they can keep the keys at Apple, and it would be one dumb company if it leaked them itself!

And if terrorists created their own system, erm, ISPs and providers could easily block it then.
[doublepost=1500572952][/doublepost]

I'm sorry but I refuse to support more secure systems for criminals to use...

[doublepost=1500573508][/doublepost]

FACTUAL NEWS ACTUALLY:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.te...nergy-companies-election-day-gchq-claims/amp/

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....s-suspect-russian-were-behind-the-attack/amp/

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.da...ed-hackers-infiltrate-UK-s-energy-sector.html

And many other reports, none of them about the accusations being denied and none about America.

Two responses.

1) A lot of people would consider you a fool if you believe that the government is here to protect you. My guess is that you are too young to have experienced the years of failed government promises and also to young to have seen first hand the years of government abuse. If you haven't seen this, then you've not been looking.

2) The telegraph, the sun, and the daily mail are not reliable news sources. Yes even a broken clock is correct twice a day, buy that does not make it a working clock. Same for these news sources. They don't have reporters any more, only editors and they report what they consider will sell, true or not. And a lot of people don't care to understand if the news they consume is true or not.

 

[AdonisSMU]

Jesus..... GCHQ have stated Russian backed hackers accessed the UKs electricity utility companies, and people are crying about security services accessing their worthless messages..

Sorry, but I'm in full support of the government.

You can just give them your information personally.

Why make the rest of us unsafe.

 

[nt5672]

I'll think how I want, it's a free world. And yes you are with the sex offenders and terrorists when you refuse access to messaging services by the Police.
You need to realise outside of America people think differently about these things like in Australia. Their are big cultural differences.

Yep, you have no idea what freedom means.