Changes to iCloud Put Apple on Collision Course With Governments Seeking Access to Encrypted Messages

[gnasher729]

Pull out of Australia.

That's the cowards way. And it doesn't serve any purpose. All it does is give Australians less choice which phone to buy. Apple loses money, customers may have to switch to a phone from a company that doesn't protect them or at least tries to protect them.

The right thing to do is to inform both the politicians and the public in Australia about what that means.

And ten years ago, the police was completely unable to get any data stored on my phone or in the cloud because there was no data stored on my phone, and there was no cloud. So please explain to me why it is suddenly so important to read information that couldn't be read ten years ago.

Then you're easily fooled. Not only is putting in a backdoor making the encrypted service 100% useless, and allowing every user of the service to be potentially exploited when a hacker finds the backdoor, but it's also going to push terrorists to create their own system.

A classic computer science book, Donald Knuth's "The Art of Computer Programming", Volume 2, explains completely how RSA works. It's simple. You can explain it to anyone who knows high school maths in two hours. It's easy to implement for any halfway talented developer. Not an efficient implementation, but efficient enough for sending messages and emails. That's encryption. The other key technology, Diffie-Hellmann key exchange, is just as easy. Just look at the Wikipedia article.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

It really is an amazing state of affairs when it comes down to corporations like Apple to actually protect the rights of citizens, whilst the governments we elect are trying to undo those rights.

It's really not. I don't know why people think government always has "the people's" best interest in mind rather than the bureaucracy's. Corporate or governmental, it's all about one two things... power and money. But I think because companies make money on people and government's spend it on them, people think gov't is "kind" and on their side. Many taxes are so stealth people don't even feel it coming out of their pocket like a $150 trip at the grocery store. Imagine if there was no withholding in your payroll check and you had to write a check for multiple thousands on April 15. Or when you went to buy something you had to pay $600 for your iPhone and then, separately, $36 sales tax. It's even more vicious in countries with a VAT because the tax is completely invisible, rolled into the cost of the item and everyone attributes the high cost of the item to the "greedy" manufacturer or store. That's how it works with gas tax in the U.S.

Gov't works to increase bureaucratic power just as companies work to increase shareholder's value. Gov't will seek to grab as much control of our lives as it can get away with just as as companies do. The difference is that gov't can break up a company's monopoly but you can't really fight city hall.

The Founding Fathers understood this human nature. It's why the U.S. Constitution is mostly an anti-government document with the majority of the powers given to the people, not the government. Unfortunately, many of the people who interpret accepted application of the Constitution were, at the time, or are now party apparatchiks, and by extension, gov't interests first, so that exquisite document is not always a bar to containing gov't overreach.

Apple here is not being altruistic. There is nothing to be "amazed" about. Apple has stated many times that it view's privacy as a selling point. A selling point. It's taking advantage of it's "walled garden" and expanding it a bit in the face of other OS's that are more open, less secure. iOS is a different asset to Apple than Android is to Google even if both have the same end use. Apple doesn't care about your privacy any more than gov't does. But Apple does care about money and they feel privacy is profit.

 

[Plutonius]

The right thing to do is to inform both the politicians and the public in Australia about what that means.

And what do you do after you inform the politicians / public, the law is passed anyways, and the courts demand that Apple comply.

At that point it's a binary solution. Apple either puts in a back door or pulls out of the market.

Would you put in the back door or pull out of the market ?

 

[MacBergin]

Thank you Apple. Keep up the fight. use the public to get these clowns out of office.

 

[DVD9]

It really is an amazing state of affairs when it comes down to corporations like Apple to actually protect the rights of citizens, whilst the governments we elect are trying to undo those rights.

Don't be so confident of Apple's desire to shield you.

 

[blackcrayon]

If they're forced to implement a backdoor into iMessage, they need to have a subtext printed under every message that says "This message is not secure. It is readable by your government and potentially others." and tapping on that text links to whatever country law describes it. The important thing is it should be clearly visible to anyone that uses it.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

That isn't going to work, there's a concerted, almost global effort to undermine end to end encrypted communications, most notably by the Five Eyes Network, which comprises, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, United Kingdom and the United States. If they pull out of Australia they'll still have to deal with the other four and there are other nations too that want this kind of access. The only play they have, that any of us have, is to continually point out the folly of their plans and resist.

But showing the will to leave a market and the political backlash of people no longer having access to their favorite new device in their home country could make the other countries think twice before attempting such shenanigans.

 

[shk718]

If governments want back doors into software (assuring weakened security) fine - but if my credit card number gets stolen or my identity gets stolen then said government can pay for any un-reimbursed credit card charges and can pay for any time i spend dealing with this stupidity.

 

[DVD9]

Jesus..... GCHQ have stated Russian backed hackers accessed the UKs electricity utility companies, and people are crying about security services accessing their worthless messages..

Sorry, but I'm in full support of the government.

Fake News

This same story was planted in the US media, supposedly in an electrical plant in a New England state, but it never happened. The electric utility themselves shot down the story. The hack was done via a USB stick, not over the Internet. No Russians involved.

 

[RickInHouston]

That old gem again? Explain, clearly, why you think the US should have any right to tax products that were made, shipped, sold, and locally taxed entirely overseas? And no, the US needing money isn’t an excuse.

Also, please explain what’s wrong with Apple taking Ireland up on its offer? They set up their system and until parts of the EU were strapped for cash they didn’t seem to have any problem with it.

This: with Apple taking Ireland up on its offer?

 

[Thunderhawks]

It's really not. I don't know why people think government always has "the people's" best interest in mind rather than the bureaucracy's. Corporate or governmental, it's all about one two things... power and money. But I think because companies make money on people and government's spend it on them, people think gov't is "kind" and on their side. Many taxes are so stealth people don't even feel it coming out of their pocket like a $150 trip at the grocery store. Imagine if there was no withholding in your payroll check and you had to write a check for multiple thousands on April 15. Or when you went to buy something you had to pay $600 for your iPhone and then, separately, $36 sales tax. It's even more vicious in countries with a VAT because the tax is completely invisible, rolled into the cost of the item and everyone attributes the high cost of the item to the "greedy" manufacturer or store. That's how it works with gas tax in the U.S.

Gov't works to increase bureaucratic power just as companies work to increase shareholder's value. Gov't will seek to grab as much control of our lives as it can get away with just as as companies do. The difference is that gov't can break up a company's monopoly but you can't really fight city hall.

The Founding Fathers understood this human nature. It's why the U.S. Constitution is mostly an anti-government document with the majority of the powers given to the people, not the government. Unfortunately, many of the people who interpret accepted application of the Constitution were, at the time, or are now party apparatchiks, and by extension, gov't interests first, so that exquisite document is not always a bar to containing gov't overreach.

Apple here is not being altruistic. There is nothing to be "amazed" about. Apple has stated many times that it view's privacy as a selling point. A selling point. It's taking advantage of it's "walled garden" and expanding it a bit in the face of other OS's that are more open, less secure. iOS is a different asset to Apple than Android is to Google even if both have the same end use. Apple doesn't care about your privacy any more than gov't does. But Apple does care about money and they feel privacy is profit.

What is amazing how incredibly well thought out the constitution is.

The founding fathers were just brilliant and even at that time it was already obvious that people are mostly evil and add money and power and they become monsters

 

[MrX8503]

The US government is showing it's ugly face with every passing day. The government no longer works for the people.

 

[nia820]

Well it looks I'll start storing my photos and sensitive documents locally and external drives again.

 

[simonmet]

I feel sorry for these Apple execs having to deal with the likes of Brandis and Co. They're complete morons.

At least according to current polling they won't win the next election. They barely survived the last.

I wish we had Jeremy Corbyn!

 

[Razeus]

If encryption has a "back door", then it's not encryption.

 

[nt5672]

This is the fight that we've all been expecting. It will be brutal and the only way for Apple to win is to enlist Apple device users.

Users have to fight for their own rights!

And unfortunately, if Apple is forced to weaken security in Australia, then the US government will force it to do so here. We in the US won't get much of a chance to fight because the US government knows it will lose if the fight is public, just like they lost round 1 with Apple. The US government will issue a sealed court order of some type and we'll never know about it until another patriot like Snowden steps up and leaks the info.

Hang on, the future is being decided right now.
[doublepost=1500561238][/doublepost]

Jesus..... GCHQ have stated Russian backed hackers accessed the UKs electricity utility companies, and people are crying about security services accessing their worthless messages..

Sorry, but I'm in full support of the government.

Sad, truly sad! You should read a little history. This belief has proven itself time and time again as the fastest way to become enslaved. You might end of with a free phone and free internet, but you won't be even close to free yourself.

The solution is to force better encryption, not weaken it as the government wants to.

 

[Thunderhawks]

The US government is showing it's ugly face with every passing day. The government no longer works for the people.

2nd place winner in the biggest lie contest was:

"I'm from the government . I 'm here to help!"

 

[djlythium]

Thanks you, Apple! Keep up the good fight!

 

[derek4484]

What really makes me mad is a pisshole country like Australia could pass a law requiring Apple (or Google, etc) to decrypt all messages on demand and then that means Americans will lose their rights too. There wont be separate iClouds, iOS, MacOS, etc for different nations, one with strong encryption and one with weak encryption. If Apple plans on doing business in Australia, it'll be forced to weaken encryption on all its products globally.
[doublepost=1500564305][/doublepost]

Not really so amazing when you are willing to recognize that, as presently in the USA, nearly a controlling majority of the federal elected officials are captured by minority special interests and do not act in the interest of the people.

Every single elected official is captured by special interests. EVERY ONE of them.

 

[lexvo]

One doesn't have to agree with everything Apple does, but in this case they are doing the right thing.

 

[BlandUsername]

The US government is showing it's ugly face with every passing day. The government no longer works for the people.

The government is not designed to work "for" the people. There is no implied work for in the definition, governments are groups of people placed in power , or people whom have taken power one way or another. Anything a government does is subjective to the eyes of the beholder. Whats ugly for the Democrats, appears quite sightly to some republicans and vice versa.


http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/government.html

A group of people that governs a community or unit. It sets and administers public policy and exercises executive, political and sovereign power through customs, institutions, and laws within a state.

 

[Websnapx2]

Jesus..... GCHQ have stated Russian backed hackers accessed the UKs electricity utility companies, and people are crying about security services accessing their worthless messages..

Sorry, but I'm in full support of the government.

Let me know when those two things have something in common. Maybe if the Utility Companies had messages-level encription it wouldn't be an issue.

BTW - I work for an Electrical Utility.
[doublepost=1500568705][/doublepost]

The government is not designed to work "for" the people. There is no implied work for in the definition, governments are groups of people placed in power , or people whom have taken power one way or another. Anything a government does is subjective to the eyes of the beholder. Whats ugly for the Democrats, appears quite sightly to some republicans and vice versa.


http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/government.html

A group of people that governs a community or unit. It sets and administers public policy and exercises executive, political and sovereign power through customs, institutions, and laws within a state.

Interesting where you get your definitions from. Keep in mind though that the US is Democratic Government – a Democracy. "Democracy (Greek: δημοκρατία, dēmokratía literally "rule of the people")"

 

[macintoshmac]

Pull out of Australia.

You clearly did not think enough. Australia today, world tomorrow, then what? Go out of business? Someone else will come up and give the backdoor, and we will still have to use that product. We really need Apple to remain and to keep fighting for as long as it can.

Apple is indeed acting like an elected government representative at the moment, for this thing. This makes very good PR, very good business sense, but it makes real common sense as well. Win win for Apple and all users.

 

[MacBH928]

I sure miss the good ol' days when you could sign up for an e-mail without your phone number or GPS location tied to it, you could visit any site without being worried about gov. monitoring you, you could send pictures online and not worry about leaks or agreed to "terms and services" that shares your whole life story with anyone willing to pay for it.

 

[MrX8503]

The government is not designed to work "for" the people. There is no implied work for in the definition, governments are groups of people placed in power , or people whom have taken power one way or another. Anything a government does is subjective to the eyes of the beholder. Whats ugly for the Democrats, appears quite sightly to some republicans and vice versa.


http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/government.html

A group of people that governs a community or unit. It sets and administers public policy and exercises executive, political and sovereign power through customs, institutions, and laws within a state.

Yes it is supposed to work for the people.