Charger broken - terrible service from Apple

[Daze & Confuse]

So what's your next action under the Sale of Goods act? Do you have to file a claim with them in court?

You first have to try and settle. This is why I was wondering if there's a special Apple UK number I could try first. Or the email of a regional manager or higher?

If not, then there's a Small Claims Court for things like (my bolding):

"The most common types of claim in the small claims track are:

•compensation for faulty services provided, for example, by builders, dry cleaners, garages and so on
•compensation for faulty goods, for example, televisions or washing machines which go wrong
•disputes between landlords and tenants, for example, rent arrears or compensation for not doing repairs
•wages owed or money in lieu of notice."

The thing is, Apple are relying on me not bothering. They'd definitely lose, and have to pay my expenses as well, but they don't think I'd go that far.

 

[hafr]

You're covered under normal use, your laptop is still working fine. Batteries and chargers are wear and tear parts, they're generally not covered in the UK law because of that.

That may be so, that's still does not entitle you to get free wear & tear parts from any company you want.

Not when it comes to wear and tear parts. I consider it a bonus to last longer than a year or I actually take good care of them. If they stopped working, I buy a new one.



Please read the law again in its entirety, companies are not entitled to be responsible wear and tear parts. AppleTV nor iPad Nano are not wear and tear parts, totally completely different things.

If you change this topic to iPod Nano, then everybody here will root for you and you'd have the perfect case to call the UK authorities and Apple can be fined for this.



No, it is not sad. The company didn't break any laws, you keep claiming that they do when in reality is that they aren't.


The default is that it is one year warranty, you want your product to last 3 years, you have to pay for it. The UK law doesn't entitle you to get the 3 years warranty for free, it entitles you to claim that your product had the defect at the time of the sale and you're entitled to get a full refund.

Your laptop does not have a defect, your charger simply died over period of time due to wear and tear.

Life expectancy is based on how long the type of product normally lasts. How many chargers have you had that breaks down after 15 months? I have never experienced it.

Either way, an Apple representative has already told him 15 months isn't acceptable. This mean the company has admitted to having to replace the charger under UK and EU laws.

 

[MikhailT]

Life expectancy is based on how long the type of product normally lasts. How many chargers have you had that breaks down after 15 months? I have never experienced it.

Either way, an Apple representative has already told him 15 months isn't acceptable. This mean the company has admitted to having to replace the charger under UK and EU laws.

At work with thousands of them, about 50% of them dies within 24 months.

According to the UK site here: http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rig...erstanding-the-sale-of-goods-act/your-rights/

f your claim is about a problem that arises within six months of buying the product, it's up to the retailer to prove that the goods were of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose, or 'as described' when it sold them e.g. by showing that the problem was caused by an external factor such as accidental damage. Beyond six months, it's up to you to prove that the problem was there when you received the goods even if it has taken until now to come to light.

So you may need to prove that the fault was not down to ordinary wear and tear or damage you caused, and that the product (or a component) should have lasted longer than it did. To do this you may need an expert's report, for example from an engineer or mechanic.

----------

You first have to try and settle. This is why I was wondering if there's a special Apple UK number I could try first. Or the email of a regional manager or higher?

Call the AppleCare number: http://www.apple.com/uk/contact/

 

[lamboman]

Don't quite understand the people that are saying that the OP is being "tight", and should just suck it up and buy another. If your charger broke in 15 months, would you consider this reasonable? Or if you computer died in 15 months? It's all the same, and part of the package.

To the OP, Sales of Goods Act will cover you here. I'd also try another store and explanation the situation, along with the Sales of Goods Act. Just because the computer is warrantied for 1 year does not mean that Apple have given up all responsibility (in the UK at least).

The Sales of Goods Act states that a product has to last within a reasonable amount of time, based on what it is, and what it cost. In your case, a £2500 laptop with a dead charger at 15 months (or if anybody wants to argue my point, a £60 power adaptor) should last a heck of a lot longer than 15 months.

No brainer here, don't let go of the money, get your replacement charger at the price you should be paying: nothing.

EDIT: See the post on proving above, it should help you. As for wear and tear, you technically have to prove but that is simple enough. Anything under 6 months, it's up to the retailer to prove that it's a wear and tear issue.

 

[bwh318]

Section 48B of the Sale of Goods Act of 1979 states that the seller must "repair or, as the case may be, replace the goods within a reasonable time but without causing significant inconvenience to the buyer" but ONLY if the prerequisites of section 48A are met which state that the "goods which do not conform to the contract of sale at any time within the period of six months starting with the date on which the goods were delivered to the buyer must be taken not to have so conformed at that date."

Buy a new charger and quit whining. The laptop and all of its accompanied parts were working when you bought it. The laptop (the primary good) is still working now. The charger, a secondary component of the transaction failed under either wear and tear or some other circumstance. While it may seem like Apple has some sort of obligation, they don't.

Could they replace it for you? Yes.
Are they, in any way, obligated? No.

If any consumer electronic company was required to replace technology that has been out of their possession beyond 13 months that went haywire, the prices would (as an earlier poster noted) go up, in effect to include the price of AppleCare.

 

[heisenberg123]

pointless thread

nobody here can help, regardless how many people you have agree or disagree

 

[bwh318]

EDIT: See the post on proving above, it should help you. As for wear and tear, you technically have to prove but that is simple enough. Anything under 6 months, it's up to the retailer to prove that it's a wear and tear issue.

Proving that an issue isn't wear and tear when you've had it for 15 months is extremely difficult. You'll essentially need to convince and electrician that you treated it perfectly. This type of statute is, in no way, meant to cover minor things like chargers.

 

[GGJstudios]

The fact Apple offer a 3 year warranty shows that even they expect it to last at least 3.

You had an opportunity to buy the 3 year coverage, but you declined. It's your fault, not Apple's.

As the laptop is useless without a charger, it actually means that the whole laptop is now useless after 15 months.

It's not useless. Just buy another charger.

This is totally unreasonable.

No, you're totally unreasonable. Your charger broke after it was no longer covered by warranty. So get over it and buy a new charger!

How do I go about getting this sorted?

Buy a new charger.

It is my legal right to get this charger replaced, as it is not fit for purpose

No, it is not your legal right to have a charger replaced out of warranty! Your charger is out of warranty. Period. Buy a new one and move on.

My family currently own 9 Apple products

And you can't afford a simple charger?

I can't believe that they're making a big deal over a charger that probably costs them less than $5 to manufacture.

I can't believe you're making a big deal over a charger that costs you $79 to buy. Compared to the cost of your computer, it's minimal. Just buy a new adapter and get over it!

 

[ixodes]

There is a concept called "reasonable service life". A charger should last far longer than yours did. I've had over twenty Mac laptops since 1991. Many of which I've passed on to family members each year as I upgrade.

None of the chargers have failed. While I take very good care of my tech gear, others I've passed them on to don't, and still no failures.

I would contact Apple, ask for a superior and state your case. I've always found that once you reach the right person, Apple is very helpful.

 

[amoda]

I want to side with you, but I can't. Your argument is essentially:

Apple offers a 3yr warranty --> thus their parts should reasonably last at least 3yrs --> my charger broke down at 15 months --> they owe me a new one

Your argument is, respectfully, moot (to quote Joey).

First off, just because Apple offers a 3yr warranty it doesn't mean that people should reasonably expect products to last 3yrs. In fact, it's quite the opposite. The fact, people buy this extended warranty because they expect the products to NOT last 3yrs.

Secondly, it's the 3yr warranty is an added service. You're entitled to a 12 month warranty for free, which you were aware of when you purchased the laptop. Electronic parts failure is a lottery, a part could fail on day 1, day 357, or 2,000. You decided to gamble that it would fail around 1,095 days, and you lost.

Finally, Apple could decide to replace the charger for free. It's their choice, but don't pull a stink that they said no to something they absolutely do not have to do. They replaced my entire machine twice (and gave me free upgrades), free of charge, once outside of warranty. I was grateful for it, but I did not expect it.

Buy a new charger, and get the extended warranty next time. I'd hate to see what you would do if your machine's logic board died tomorrow.

 

[hafr]

At work with thousands of them, about 50% of them dies within 24 months.

According to the UK site here: http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rig...erstanding-the-sale-of-goods-act/your-rights/

What kind of chargers is that? Being a normal user having used chargers of different kinds on a daily basis since a good 20 years back, it sounds like a whole lot. Maybe I'm just lucky.

Having an Apple representative saying 15 months isn't acceptable is enough for the court to rule in OP's favor. It's just a matter of proving that the representative said it

 

[Daze & Confuse]

Thanks all

Thanks for all the replies.

I have noticed quite a big difference in reactions between US based and UK based repliers.

The US based ones are mainly saying 'tough' - the UK ones are mainly agreeing with me. I think the thing to realise here is the law is very different in the UK compared to the USA. In the UK we already pay a major premium on our products, which in part covers the additional legal protection we have over and above that offered by a warranty (or not). Essentially we are already paying for a reduced kind of Apple Care on every product we buy. In fact extended warranties are currently being investigated by the Office of Fair Trading, as there is a case for arguing that in this country extended warranties are confusing consumers into purchasing cover the don't need, as they are already well covered by the law for a lot of issues. This particular case is one of those issues, and, agree with it or not, the law in the UK covers this.

Anyway, I spoke to Apple Care, and got the same response. As soon as I mentioned the Sale of Goods act however, I was transferred to a very nice senior advisor, who agreed that the failure was not within reasonable expectations, and has arranged for it to be examined. I'm disappointed I had to push so hard to get through to a person who acknowledged what my legal rights are, but I'm glad I've actually got somewhere.

And for those who say it's only £60 or whatever - I know it's not much, but it really does all add up. I spend less than that on food in a week. Most of our Apple products are bought by wealthier members of the family than I. (In fact, I found out my MacBook Pro is still registered to the gift buyer, so I'll have to ask them to sort it! ) Please don't be so quick to judge.

Thanks for all the replies - I'll let you know how I get on.

 

[hafr]

You had an opportunity to buy the 3 year coverage, but you declined. It's your fault, not Apple's.

The warranty has nothing to do with his rights to get it exchanged if it broke unreasonably early.

No, you're totally unreasonable. Your charger broke after it was no longer covered by warranty. So get over it and buy a new charger!

Warranty isn't be all end all.

No, it is not your legal right to have a charger replaced out of warranty! Your charger is out of warranty. Period. Buy a new one and move on.

It depends on whether or not it's reasonable that a charger dies after fifteen months. Warranty isn't important.

And you can't afford a simple charger?

As opposed to Apple?

I can't believe you're making a big deal over a charger that costs you $79 to buy. Compared to the cost of your computer, it's minimal. Just buy a new adapter and get over it!

You usually come across as an intelligent person, but in this case you seem to have missed the fact that he's not in the US, and that we have a different system when it comes to consumer rights here. It's not so much about the price as the principle. Apple KNOW they're in the wrong, but they STILL tell him no.

----------

I want to side with you, but I can't. Your argument is essentially:

Apple offers a 3yr warranty --> thus their parts should reasonably last at least 3yrs --> my charger broke down at 15 months --> they owe me a new one

Your argument is, respectfully, moot (to quote Joey).

First off, just because Apple offers a 3yr warranty it doesn't mean that people should reasonably expect products to last 3yrs. In fact, it's quite the opposite. The fact, people buy this extended warranty because they expect the products to NOT last 3yrs.

Secondly, it's the 3yr warranty is an added service. You're entitled to a 12 month warranty for free, which you were aware of when you purchased the laptop. Electronic parts failure is a lottery, a part could fail on day 1, day 357, or 2,000. You decided to gamble that it would fail around 1,095 days, and you lost.

Finally, Apple could decide to replace the charger for free. It's their choice, but don't pull a stink that they said no to something they absolutely do not have to do. They replaced my entire machine twice (and gave me free upgrades), free of charge, once outside of warranty. I was grateful for it, but I did not expect it.

Buy a new charger, and get the extended warranty next time. I'd hate to see what you would do if your machine's logic board died tomorrow.

This means you consider 15 months to be more than the life expectancy of a charger. Is this correct?

 

[Dangerous Theory]

If you are absolutely sure that you've kept the utmost care with the power adapter (not bending at any contact points, etc), and can prove that there is no wear and tear, then you have a strong case. If it comes down to a circuitry failure inside the transformer or the magsafe, then it would be Apples' responsibility to replace it for you free of charge.

It just depends how much effort you really want to put into it. You can either put the time and effort in and achieve a small win against a giant corporation, or learn from the sad experience and get warranty cover next time.

EDIT: That's great that you've at least got your foot in the door. As long as they examine it to find no wear and tear, you should be golden.

Also, I find it quite appalling that people think "it's only £60". £60 can go a long way for some people, and it's not something you should be contempt with just throwing away. However, if it does come down to buying a new adapter, avoid Apple Store. I saw the same adapters selling for £26 on Amazon.

 

[Daze & Confuse]

Thanks, hafr, but I think, as I explained in my previous post, it's a lot harder for US posters to understand the situation as they're not used to it. If I was in the USA, I'd definitely buy Apple Care, but I'm not, and that's something that a lot of people don't seem to fully appreciate.

Maybe this will help:

Imagine having Apple Care in the USA, and you taking in a faulty item, and Apple say "Yes, it's faulty. Yes, it's our fault. Yes, it's covered by warranty. But no, we can't be bothered to fix it. Now what are you going to do about it?" Except in the UK the word 'warranty' is replaced with 'the law' - it really is that simple, and it's pretty shocking when you think about it.

 

[miles01110]

If you think you have legal recourse then sue them in small claims court (or the UK equivalent). You're probably going to lose though. Just buy a new charger... it's not a big deal.

 

[r.j.s]

Thanks, hafr, but I think, as I explained in my previous post, it's a lot harder for US posters to understand the situation as they're not used to it. If I was in the USA, I'd definitely buy Apple Care, but I'm not, and that's something that a lot of people don't seem to fully appreciate.

Maybe this will help:

Imagine having Apple Care in the USA, and you taking in a faulty item, and Apple say "Yes, it's faulty. Yes, it's our fault. Yes, it's covered by warranty. But no, we can't be bothered to fix it. Now what are you going to do about it?" Except in the UK the word 'warranty' is replaced with 'the law' - it really is that simple, and it's pretty shocking when you think about it.

Except somebody else explained to you that the law is not all-encompasing - the charger is considered a wear-and-tear part and not covered by the law ...

If that is indeed true, then it doesn't matter what your argument is about differences between the UK and the US.

 

[GGJstudios]

The warranty has nothing to do with his rights to get it exchanged if it broke unreasonably early.

Define "unreasonably early". Apple doesn't state an expected lifespan for adapters. Any expected lifespan is an assumption on the part of the user. Apple's obligation ends with the warranty. Once the warranty expires, the user has no rights to an exchange.

Warranty isn't be all end all.

I can't speak for the UK, but in the US, the warranty defines the limits of Apple's legal liability, so it is the "be all and end all".

It depends on whether or not it's reasonable that a charger dies after fifteen months. Warranty isn't important.

Warranty is very important in determining who is responsible for paying for replacement.

You usually come across as an intelligent person, but in this case you seem to have missed the fact that he's not in the US, and that we have a different system when it comes to consumer rights here.

As I said, I can't speak for the UK, but in general principle, a warranty defines the limits of a company's liability related to product failure. If there is a superseding law in the UK, the OP can avail themselves of that if they choose, but posting about it in a forum won't solve anything. The other problem with adapters is wear and tear. Proving that the adapter failed due to manufacturing defect, as opposed to normal wear and tear caused by the user, may prove difficult. The fact that there may not be visible signs of wear doesn't prove that wear doesn't exist.

 

[Apok]

Its a charger? just buy a new one. No company would replace it after the warranty has run out.

Actually the same thing just recently happened to the charger for mine, and I didn't have the extended warranty. I took a chance and went in to ask if there was anything they could do for me, though I was expecting to have to buy a new one. Even after I admitted that I didn't have apple care, they still gave me a brand new one off the shelf. I though that was a great bit of customer service. Perhaps the OP came off to the worker as demanding they replace it instead of just asking if there was anything they could do. I don't know. But it does suck that they wouldn't replace it.

 

[jlc1978]

I was really careful to be reasonable. I didn't even think to take the 'entitled view', a I thought they'd simply swap it. I said it had stopped working, so they said to pop over to the Genius Bar to have look at it. They then said, 'Wait, how old is it?' I said 15 months, and they said there and then I had to buy a new one, and didn't even bother examining it at the Genius Bar. They were very blunt from the outset.

Doesn't the EU's warranty requirements fit here - although you have to prove it was defective at the outset?

 

[Daze & Confuse]

Thanks all!

I also posted on a UK consumer rights forum, and I got a lot of very useful information. I am 100% sure I'm in the right here - it's just whether I can be bothered to do anything about it! Apple are banking on me not.

I know a lot of you have tried to help, but I think this forum is too US centric, as most people are quoting US rules that don't apply here or quoting information that doesn't apply. (e.g. In the UK a company's responsibility is independent of any warranty offered, and there is no such thing as a wear and tear part that is exempt from law. I don't have to sue to take this through the legal system here - it's more light touch than that. Also a lot of US posters don't seem to appreciate that the Sale of Goods Act is a law.)

I totally agree that in the USA I would not have any choice (and if I lived there I'd consequently buy Apple Care), but I'm in the UK, and Apple were basically telling me they were aware of the law, but choosing not to do anything. Luckily the senior rep has been much more understanding and reasonable.

Thanks for all the help.

Now, how do I close this thread - I don't think it's adding anything anymore?

 

[GGJstudios]

Now, how do I close this thread - I don't think it's adding anything anymore?

Click the report post icon

and ask a moderator to close the thread.

 

[hafr]

Except somebody else explained to you that the law is not all-encompasing - the charger is considered a wear-and-tear part and not covered by the law ...

If that is indeed true, then it doesn't matter what your argument is about differences between the UK and the US.

Chargers are covered by the law, the only real question now is whether or not 15 months could be considered acceptable. But, as I've said earlier, the fact that Apple representatives have said 15 months isn't acceptable is enough for him to win the case.

It does seem like even Apple is on "our" line, seeing what they've offered when he talked to them and mentioned he had the law on his side.

 

[Ohrstrom]

Uk are under EU laws which means they are covered for 2 years instead of one. Wether this covers the charger I cannot say.

https://www.macrumors.com/2012/03/20/european-consumer-groups-criticize-apples-warranties/

 

[hafr]

Define "unreasonably early". Apple doesn't state an expected lifespan for adapters. Any expected lifespan is an assumption on the part of the user. Apple's obligation ends with the warranty. Once the warranty expires, the user has no rights to an exchange.

This is not correct in the OP's case.

I can't speak for the UK, but in the US, the warranty defines the limits of Apple's legal liability, so it is the "be all and end all".

Are you aware of the fact the the OP is in the UK and not in the US? If yes, your posts are irrelevant.

Proving that the adapter failed due to manufacturing defect, as opposed to normal wear and tear caused by the user, may prove difficult. The fact that there may not be visible signs of wear doesn't prove that wear doesn't exist.

For someone saying he can't talk for the UK, you do have a lot to say...