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Brize

macrumors 6502a
Jun 13, 2004
732
0
Europe
Is it offensive? Am I bovvered? Because the vegans I've been around never once considered that they're attitudes are offensive to people who aren't just like they are. I eat my way, they can eat theirs. I only learned to spurn their choices after hearing how "disgusting" and "wrong" and "cruel" etc etc etc my ice cream was.
BTW, one of those vegans I was referring to? Ended up in a hospital for weeks with malnutrition.


Well, you were clearly - and understandably - bothered by the people who offended you by criticising your own food choices, so why do the same to others?

You've obviously has some disappointing experiences at the hands of militant vegans, but that's no reason to assume that all vegans behave similarly, just as I've no reason to assume that all meat eaters are as hostile toward vegans as you appear to be.

Your friend who ended up in hospital for weeks with malnutrition may have been a vegan, but that doesn't indicate a causal relationship - the most common cause of malnutrition is inadequate food intake (due to eating disorders such as anorexia, for example) rather than micronutrient and protein deficiency. In any event, the more significant problem facing the west is malnutrition through over-eating, i.e. taking in more calories than required, and this is likely to be more of a problem for meat eaters than for vegans or vegetarians.
 

dcv

macrumors G3
May 24, 2005
8,021
1
Couldn't I say something similar about vegetables, though? They grow and grow, and then you chop them down or pull them out of wherever they were growing. Hardly seems fair to me. :apple:

There are some *extreme* vegans - "fruitarians" or whatever they call themselves (nutters? :D) who won't dig up veg or pick fruit from trees but only eat stuff that has naturally fallen... Each to their own I guess!

dcv I suppose the difference is, when you saw me order chicken curry you didn't wince or say how evil or gross it is. It's all in how you market it I suppose. :)
I got rubbed the wrong way by several vegans it seems. (who also had leather boots, if I recall correctly.)
Just one of those things, if done in a preachy way it gets peoples backs up.
True.
As for the boots thing... well you know I love me boots :D and I have no real qualms over buying leather goods these days but as a vegan I used to wear non-leather shoes. Bloody uncomfortable too I might add!
 

princealfie

macrumors 68030
Mar 7, 2006
2,517
1
Salt Lake City UT
Sorry but I find it ironic and hypocritical that vegans tend to worry about the rights of animals over those of the homeless and that's just so wrong.

That's why I like my veggies but when we go too far then there's a problem. Sorry but I love munching my critters. Yum! :p
 

iBlue

macrumors Core
Mar 17, 2005
19,180
15
London, England
Well, you were clearly - and understandably - bothered by the people who offended you by criticising your own food choices, so why do the same to others?

You've obviously has some disappointing experiences at the hands of militant vegans, but that's no reason to assume that all vegans behave similarly, just as I've no reason to assume that all meat eaters are as hostile toward vegans as you appear to be.

Your friend who ended up in hospital for weeks with malnutrition may have been a vegan, but that doesn't indicate a causal relationship - the most common cause of malnutrition is inadequate food intake (due to eating disorders such as anorexia, for example) rather than micronutrient and protein deficiency. In any event, the more significant problem facing the west is malnutrition through over-eating, i.e. taking in more calories than required, and this is likely to be more of a problem for meat eaters than for vegans or vegetarians.
fair enough.
(actually I don't know why that hit a nerve. I might be hungry :p )
 

Keebler

macrumors 68030
Jun 20, 2005
2,960
207
Canada
what i find hilarious is how this topic has typically spiraled away from the OPs original question - i thought answers should be a yah or nah. now we've progressed into the topics of vegans/vegetarians/octo-mocto-eggo vegetarians etc..etc.. (last one isn't mocking vegetarians...mocking how off topic we got :)

for me, i'm not bothered by ppl who don't eat meat. to each their own. i do get bothered when those folks come for dinner only b/c there seems to be so many different levels of being a non-meat eater that I don't know what the hell to make without offending anyone. Sure, I ask them what they'll eat, but do i know the intricacies of 'renet' in cheese? hell no.

the only thing that bothers me (and this happens for anything in life when someone is passionate about their beliefs), is when there's a pure hardcore vegan who gets on my case for being a proud hunter. That topic instantly becomes heated. I'm usually a pretty passive guy, but i let loose when someone attacks hunting. It's really a severe lack of education about hunting that leads people to not understand it...instead, emotions take over.

BUT, back to the OP's question - i'll say 'nah', i didn't realize that about cheese.

:)

Cheers,
Keebler
 

livingfortoday

macrumors 68030
Nov 17, 2004
2,903
4
The Msp
As I pointed out I'm not a vegan so perhaps someone who is is better versed (I like honey). My understanding is that Vegans strive to avoid any exploitation of animals for their personal benefit. This includes taking honey from bees. Bees are producing honey (with the opportunity cost of investing their time and energy) for the sole purpose of producing food for their offspring and the hive. They do not consent to it being taken from their hives for human consumption, and taking it is to the detriment of the bees (loss of their net effort). In those terms I'm sure you can see the error in your supermarket-worker analogy....

Well, I'm a vegan, but I eat honey, because while cows and the like have never bothered me, bees have made it clear that it is WAR that is on their mind. So it is ON, bees. Since it's what they want, I will bring war to their hives! I will bring you to your bees knees!

Uh, past that, all those who judge a whole group of people based on the actions of a few with whom they've directly interacted are, well, dumb. That's like saying that because some white guy hassled me on a CTA bus today, I'm going to declare all white guys obnoxious and jerks. Everyone is different, and judging a group like that based on some individuals is ignorant.

Also, I DO eat the homeless, so I see exactly where you're coming from. I do it because me not eating animal products somehow takes away from my ability to confront other problems in society.
 

mkrishnan

Moderator emeritus
Jan 9, 2004
29,776
15
Grand Rapids, MI, USA
Bunch of cylon-fracking vegetarians....

Honestly, when I've been a vegetarian, I was interested in developing to vegan but never got there. But do let me ask this. If your diet causes the death or mistreatment of X animals in a year, and you eliminate all or even most meat from that diet, you perhaps reduce that number to X/10. So that number is not zero... that number is still a lot lower than it was. Why is that such a crime?
 

iBlue

macrumors Core
Mar 17, 2005
19,180
15
London, England
to some of the responses...

Alright, alright, I get it. I went off on a bit of a rant and over-generalized a lot of people. Pardon me all over the place.
sm-grumble.gif
Replace vegans with SOME vegans... the sort that get extremely preachy and condescending and other annoying traits. crikey! :eek: :p
 

bartelby

macrumors Core
Jun 16, 2004
19,795
34
Alright, alright, I get it. I went off on a bit of a rant and over-generalized a lot of people. Pardon me all over the place.
sm-grumble.gif
Replace vegans with SOME vegans... the sort that get extremely preachy and condescending and other annoying traits. crikey! :eek: :p

There's one of that type where I work!
He's very annoying! I'm glad I'm no longer a vegan (or vegetarian, for that matter) so I don't get associated with him!
 

Queso

Suspended
Mar 4, 2006
11,821
8
Alright, alright, I get it. I went off on a bit of a rant and over-generalized a lot of people. Pardon me all over the place.
sm-grumble.gif
Replace vegans with SOME vegans... the sort that get extremely preachy and condescending and other annoying traits. crikey! :eek: :p
Yeah, but I've lost count of the people that upon finding out I'm veggie give me the "lovely meat" speech and/or try to stick their lunch under my nose. It's the meat-eaters that preach from my point of view, almost as if they feel like they're being attacked just by vegetarians existing at all.

So it works both ways.
 

princealfie

macrumors 68030
Mar 7, 2006
2,517
1
Salt Lake City UT
Okay, I like my fish and chicken and occasional cow. Yum!

But I try to get a balanced diet. Seriously, I consider myself a connoisseur of food and I figure that limiting yourself in the respect of the food groups means no haute cuisine.
 

ejb190

macrumors 65816
Pain and suffering are attributes of a CNS and complex behaviour - a characteristic of animals and generally completely absent in plants.

Plants do communicate and do feel "pain". But your narrow definition of pain from your personal experience might not fully explain it. [I deleted a long, over involved explanation with academic references. PM me if you want the details...]

In my work, I deal with people who treat trees like decorations and forget they are living things that have needs and can die. I usually get called well after the damage has been done (like pouring a concrete driveway over 1/3 of the root system 5 years ago) and asked what can be done to save the tree (don't put the drive there).

That being said, I grew up on a hog farm and raised show cattle. I don't have a problem with using animals. While I am not into animal rights, animal welfare is very important to me. Nothing makes me madder then to see an animal cooped up, half starving, and unkept. If you are going to take responsibility for an animal, do it to the best of your ability. If you can't afford it, give it to someone who can.

Eric the plant physiologist
 

calculus

Guest
Dec 12, 2005
4,504
5
Where has all the cheese gone?

Edit:- Never mind the cheese, what happened to the bees!
 

takao

macrumors 68040
Dec 25, 2003
3,827
605
Dornbirn (Austria)
as long as i'm not invited to dinner and when i arrive i get told "person x is a vegetarian and thus we had to made the hamburgers from tofu"

thank god i didn't skip lunch for the evening .. oh wait ... i _did_...
way to ruin any sympathies person x...
 

dornoforpyros

macrumors 68040
Oct 19, 2004
3,070
4
Calgary, AB
as long as i'm not invited to dinner and when i arrive i get told "person x is a vegetarian and thus we had to made the hamburgers from tofu"

thank god i didn't skip lunch for the evening .. oh wait ... i _did_...
way to ruin any sympathies person x...

Meh even when I've thrown BBQ's there's always been meat available, all the food I cooked/provided was always vegetarian. But I certainly never imposed a ban on meat at my BBQs because I mean come on, it's a freaking BBQ!

I just wish there were a few more libertarians in the world, my not eating meat doesn't effect you anymore than your eating meat effects me.
 

nbs2

macrumors 68030
Mar 31, 2004
2,719
491
A geographical oddity
I just wish there were a few more libertarians in the world, my not eating meat doesn't effect you anymore than your eating meat effects me.

I think that is where takao is comnig from. I meat eating shouldn't affect you, and your plant eating shouldn't affect me. But, all to often I have seen where there is an expectation that I must cater to your consumption desires while you refuse to prepare a meat when attending to me. This is where much of the animosity comes from, I believe - the argument that you must be catered to, but I can "suck it up" and have a veg meal.

That being said, I have met people from both sides who find humor in the actions of the other. Non-vegs who find ways to enjoy the meal with all plant foods. Vegs who make jokes about enjoying the cheese and crackers and side salad at the formal dinner. The ones that can make the joke without dripping sarcasm or bitterness earn my respect.

Definitions:
"I" and "me" in the initial paragraph refers to non-vegetarians, generally and generically
"You" and "your" in the initial paragraph refers to vegetarians, generally and generically.
 
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