Chevrolet Volt expected to get 230 MPG city!

[sushi]

As stated in the press release, it will cost a person about $2.75 per 100 miles of electricity.

That is assuming all goes as estimated.

So for someone who commutes 40 miles a day, which means that they can stay on the electric side at 3 cents per mile, it would cost $1.20 per day or $6 per week. That sounds good.

I would be more concerned about the load on the power grids when everyone plugs in at night.

This is what I was referring to when I mentioned the cost.

If everyone starts using this type of car, the existing infrastructure would need to be upgraded to support charging our cars. This comes at a cost. I would expect electrical prices to rise to support the increase in infrastructure that would be required.

Personally, I like the idea of electrical cars. I am looking forward to the day that we are no longer dependent on oil like we are currently.

 

[Prof.]

And how much CO2 is produced to generate the electricity to charge the thing?

And it's going to cost roughly $40,000. No way in hell would I spend 40 grand on a Chevy.

I agree with the above statement. If I'm gonna spend 40k on a car, I'm gonna buy a car that has been proven to be reliable. A fully-loaded Prius.

 

[ntrigue]

I'd love to see a Nissan and Chevy electric vehicle available while Cash for Clunkers is still running.

 

[techfreak85]

And how much CO2 is produced to generate the electricity to charge the thing?

Well for us in the NW, it wont generate much. all hydro and wind power.
so that also means we have reasonably cheap power too.

 

[Antares]

I would be interested if they made a coupe version. I'm not a fan of sedans. I would also need to see how good the acceleration is. The faster the better. Sure it kills some mpg....but great acceleration is important.

The aesthetic design is nice too, which is a plus.

 

[jbernie]

The 230mpg is based on the vehicle being charged over night and the US DOT studies that show that 80% of Americans travel less than 40 miles per day, GM extended it to 50 mpg probably so that they are forced to use some gas and get an actual MPG number and not just infinity.

Your total mpg # per trip will change as you go beyond the initial 40 miles of electric only power.

- Your (electric) power costs may vary.
- Your total mpg will vary depending on how far you drive per day.
- The mpg number provided is an accurate representation of what the average person can expect to see when they charge the vehicle daily and drive less than 50 miles per day.

The Volt makes a difference as you can potentially own the vehicle and never put gas in it, but unlike the claims of the Electric only vehicles, the Volt uses an internal combustion engine to power the generator, not the wheels, and does so at the optimal RPM to gain the optimal fuel economy of the engine.

Should you need to go further than the all electric range, you don't need to rent another vehicle, nor do you need to own a 2nd vehicle to go further. The Volt can be recharged at any gas station in the world in a few minutes as you fill up the gas tank. No need to wait X hours to recharge at an outlet if you can find one. You get all the benefits of an EV with the range of a normal vehicle.

I don't doubt for any moment that the Volt is not for everyone, but there are an awful lot of people out there who can find this setup perfect for them. If I could plug in at my condo complex the Volt would be perfect. My total weekly commute distance is under 28 miles. Surely you anti-Volt people can desire the benefits of not needing to top up with gas?

As to the recharging, have a 240v (?) outlet setup in yoru garage at home, put a simple timer on the outlet that will turn on at 2am and off at 6am and you car is charged automatically in the middle of the night, no need to charge during peak hours in the evening.

 

[bbotte]

I'm buying one to give Dubai the finger.

 

[killr_b]

I think GM can do better.

http://www.rasertech.com/media/videos/the-electric-h3
^^Like this. Buy these fools already GM!

 

[Phazotron]

Wait, what?

so thats what all those ads on Hulu have been about!
the ones with the green background with the 23 and the outlet(as 0).
the ads got changed today to say Chevy Volt...
i am actually impressed with that marketing.
maybe Obama's General Socialized Motors got some good stuff going!

Yes, once Obama took office they were just soooo inspired that they designed and built this car in 8 months.

I do hope you were being sarcastic. I'm getting a little tired of everyone's credulous attitude towards that particular politician.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Yes, once Obama took office they were just soooo inspired that they designed and built this car in 8 months.

I do hope you were being sarcastic. I'm getting a little tired of everyone's credulous attitude towards that particular politician.

My gut tells me that he believe Obama policy is what made the volt come out.

Never mind the fact that the batteries for the Volt finished up a year ago or the 2 years wear and tear test that simulated 10 years worth of use to them. Or the years this car has spent in development. Or never mind the fact that it was announced over a year ago and it was targeted for a late 2010 model or a 2011 model.... All this while Bush was in office BEFORE the huge spike in gas prices.....

As for me the Volt has my attention but I will hold off buying one until I at least own a house to charge it at. Apartment living and plug in Hybrids do not mix to well.

 

[Counterfit]

I'm gonna buy a car that has been proven to be reliable. A fully-loaded Prius.

Toyota hasn't been that great in that area in the last few years either...

I would be interested if they made a coupe version. I'm not a fan of sedans. I would also need to see how good the acceleration is. The faster the better. Sure it kills some mpg....but great acceleration is important.

The aesthetic design is nice too, which is a plus.

Electric motor = great acceleration from a stop.

 

[question fear]

I wonder about a few things with electric cars:

1) Presumably you'd have to own your own home or have a condo/apartment complex that was very understanding about extension cords...

2) Which also makes me wonder how realistic this is for long trips (not long commutes, but for a vacation/road trip.) And if it is totally depleted on the electric side, what does the MPG number run at?

3) Can it recharge somewhat while driving like the Prius? If it could "go hybrid" for times when plugging in isn't realistic then it becomes a lot more practical.

And I can't help but imagine the look on the night clerk at a no-tel motel when someone motors up in their Volt with an extra-long extension cord and asks where to plug it in.

 

[MacNut]

This car also isn't good for people that live in severe weather areas when the power goes out regularly. Good luck explaining to the boss why you can't make it to work because the car didn't charge.

 

[quagmire]

This car also isn't good for people that live in severe weather areas when the power goes out regularly. Good luck explaining to the boss why you can't make it to work because the car didn't charge.

That is if they always keep the gas tank empty. Then it becomes their fault.

 

[mkrishnan]

3) Can it recharge somewhat while driving like the Prius? If it could "go hybrid" for times when plugging in isn't realistic then it becomes a lot more practical.

As I understand it, the Volt and all the other plug-ins can function like low storage requirement hybrids (what the Prius is) except that they do it in a purely serial fashion. That is, the Volt can, as I understand it, in principle be used for its whole life without ever plugging it in. It wouldn't get any 237 MPG -- as I understand it, it would put out pretty Prius-ey numbers used that way, or perhaps even worse.

As for the charging issue, there has been talk about ways to provide public charging but they're pretty nascent right now -- basically, you almost need a garage to be able to do this in the US, and at the very minimum off-street parking and your own external plug-points. For instance, I even live in an upper floor duplex, and I have an external entrance on the first floor and off street parking, but I'm not sure I have an external power outlet that's metered to me.

Honestly, I think a few things need to happen --

- First, in fairness the no-charging scenario mileage should be tested and listed for these cars so they can be compared to LSR's and non-hybrids

- Second, the 200+ MPG numbers need to be basically put on hold until other plug-ins come on the market. When a customer is shopping the Leaf and Volt, I think the numbers are a valid comparison.

- Third, I'm really honestly softening up on the idea of these vehicles, but there absolutely needs to be a pro-active commitment to pair the roll-out of these vehicles with increasing the amount of renewable, clean energy production on the grid. That's not just for environmental reasons -- if a significant number of Americans for instance start driving HSR hybrids, the actual overall consumption of electricity will be impacted significantly. Even at the level of these projected $1-3/100 mile cost estimates, AFAIK those cost estimates do not really take into account the cost impact of increased grid burden.

The situation would be different if we were some Scandinavian country that was on track to have an abundance of green energy production -- they should adopt this like gangbusters. If we adopt it, we have to adopt the whole package and not just the HSR hybrids....

But I used to say I thought HSR's were just completely irresponsible without talking about green grid energy, and so this is still a softening from my earlier view.

 

[question fear]

Thanks, MKrishnan! That answered my main questions...makes sense that they'd HAVE a non-plugin mode, but since it isn't being talked about it's hard to gauge what that means. It would suck to go from 230MPG to 20MPG because you couldn't charge it...

 

[mkrishnan]

Thanks, MKrishnan! That answered my main questions...makes sense that they'd HAVE a non-plugin mode, but since it isn't being talked about it's hard to gauge what that means. It would suck to go from 230MPG to 20MPG because you couldn't charge it...

Another way to think about it is that the Volt wouldn't be able to drive long distances at all were this not true (as is the case for electric vehicles). Think about it this way. If the gas powertrain could not fill the battery up quicker than it is drained or at least close to as quickly as it is being drained, then it would run out of power mid trip. Also things like the scenario of not having a charge in the morning and not being able to use the car are what made EVs so problematic in the first place -- the whole point of these plug-in hybrids was to overcome those limitations.

But I think the estimates (examples in the comment section) are that the Volt and other plug-ins should be reasonably competitive with the top of non-plug-in vehicles (e.g. the Prius, Insight, Fusion Hybrid) when running off gasoline.

The rub is not that you cannot do this. AFAIK, talk of the Volt being rendered unusable because of a power outage, etc, are just fear mongering. The rub is that if you do do this with much frequency, you're wasting your money (And the environmental costs associated with building a vehicle like the Volt in the first place), as outside of the projected low mileage sort of use pattern, the Volt is not really better than a Prius, Insight, etc, that cost a lot less. Basically you can use the Volt like you would any other car, but the more you're able to charge it from the wall and drive it short distances, the more efficient it becomes in terms of its overall value equation, both economically and, potentially, environmentally.

EDIT: Sorry for the drawn out posts... One last thought is that the design of the Volt gives the engine a big advantage over the engines in cars like the Prius and Fusion hybrid. In those cars, the engines have to provide torque and work at all kinds of different speeds and respond to the resistance from the road. The engine in the Volt just powers up and starts charging the battery -- it can have a relatively simple design because all it needs to do is spin at one frequency with a standard resistance on the other end.

 

[ftaok]

2) Which also makes me wonder how realistic this is for long trips (not long commutes, but for a vacation/road trip.) And if it is totally depleted on the electric side, what does the MPG number run at?

At least for the Volt, the gas engine generator will give you the equivalent of 35 MPG. That was based on the assumption that the gas tank is/was 8.5 gallons combined with GM's claim that you could drive 300 miles once the engine fires up.

 

[jbernie]

1) Presumably you'd have to own your own home or have a condo/apartment complex that was very understanding about extension cords...

That is correct, even then I am sure there are plenty of older houses through out the USA where people will not be easily able to plug in. i.e. on street parking only. Regardless you can still own/drive a Volt and run it without the 40 mile electric only range but you would more likely see around 50-60mpg (Prius or Insight numbers) than the higher numbers being mentioned. This is due to the need to use gas to recharge the batteries 100% of the time.

2) Which also makes me wonder how realistic this is for long trips (not long commutes, but for a vacation/road trip.) And if it is totally depleted on the electric side, what does the MPG number run at?

There are two types of electric vehicles... you have the pure Electric Vehicle (EV).. think the Nissian Leaf.. which only runs when charged and has no internal combustion engine to provide some form of backup power. You then have Extended Range Electric Vehicles (EREV).. think the Chevy Volt... where you have battery power and an alternate form of power that can be used as well.

In the case of the Volt, it is always powered (to the wheels) by the batteries/electric motors however the Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) is there to recharge the generator, and it does so at the optimal rpm of the engine. Where as with a normal car the RPMs go all over as you accelerate, break & cruise, the electric motors in the volt handle that and the ICE just powers the generators at a constant optimized level to get even better fuel economy.

In addition, one thing that is not really mentioned about the Volt and the GM Voltec platform is that the fuel source can be anything, gas, hydrogen, fuel cells, e85, etc, obviously with the appropriate storage tank . The electric portion just needs a power source. So as time progresses and maybe we do get the "hydrogen highway" that gets talked about GM can release Volts that use hydrogen instead of gasoline.

3) Can it recharge somewhat while driving like the Prius? If it could "go hybrid" for times when plugging in isn't realistic then it becomes a lot more practical.

see above, the range of the Volt is 40 miles electric PLUS another 300 or more miles when using the ICE to recharge the batteries. In the case of the Nissan Leaf and there "367mpg" number, its 367mpg but only a range of maybe 40-60 miles. Should you want to drive across country in the Volt you will just stop at a normal gas station, refill the gas tank and continue on your way. You do not need to recharge every day or every 40 miles to make use of the vehicle.

And I can't help but imagine the look on the night clerk at a no-tel motel when someone motors up in their Volt with an extra-long extension cord and asks where to plug it in.

Well... so long as you are at a motel on the first floor or so you can probably just run the cable into the room. As we move more towards volume production of vehicles that use electric power you will no doubt start seeing the hotel chains offering recharge stations of some description for travellers. Though you would only have slow charging if you used an in room power source as it is 110v not the 240v needed to do the 3 hour charge.

Edit: Although all are Hybrids, Toyota's "Hybrid Synergy Drive" for the Prius etc and the Honda Insight are Parallel Hybrids and the Chevy Volt is a Series Hybrid.

 

[quagmire]

The gas generator doesn't charge the battery, it powers the electric motors. The battery just becomes dead weight sitting at 30% charge. There is regenerative braking and an optional solar panel on the roof to help charge the battery, but plugging it in will be the fastest way to recharge it.

 

[NoSmokingBandit]

And how much CO2 is produced to generate the electricity to charge the thing?

Precisely. Is it going to be marketed as "green" or "low fuel costs"? Either way, its not gong to work. Energy has to come from somewhere and you are either going to pay at the pump or on your electric bill. Im sure its more efficient than a plain gasoline engine, but tricking your customers into thinking you can jump from 35mpg to 230mpg with no repercussions is just lame.

 

[quagmire]

Precisely. Is it going to be marketed as "green" or "low fuel costs"? Either way, its not gong to work. Energy has to come from somewhere and you are either going to pay at the pump or on your electric bill. Im sure its more efficient than a plain gasoline engine, but tricking your customers into thinking you can jump from 35mpg to 230mpg with no repercussions is just lame.

As stated, it will be roughly $2.75 every 100 miles to charge the Volt. Hardly a strain on the consumers wallet.........

 

[jbernie]

Precisely. Is it going to be marketed as "green" or "low fuel costs"? Either way, its not gong to work. Energy has to come from somewhere and you are either going to pay at the pump or on your electric bill. Im sure its more efficient than a plain gasoline engine, but tricking your customers into thinking you can jump from 35mpg to 230mpg with no repercussions is just lame.

Your electric bill doesn't go up a few $$ a gallon if we have a war in the Middle East, or a Hurricane in the Gulf etc. Although the cost of electricity can vary it is more constant than gas prices which can spike/drop quickly due to the nature of where most of the oil supplies used are located and refined and method in which it is paid for... or so we are told

For those who do the electric only power.... vs a traditional gas only vehicle. 40 miles is at least 1 to 1.5 gallons per day. So at $2.45 odd for the low grade here in Denver, you are looking at $2.45 to $3.67 per day in gas vs a few hours at 10c per Kw/h. Yes it does move the cost from one area (gas station to electric bill) but if you are dropping $2-3 per day out of your gas costs those savings will add up over time.

And for the other arguement... if you are going to buy a new vehicle... you could go and buy some cheap small car and get very good mileage and maybe pay less over the life of the vehicle, but in saying that, are consumers really truely going to cross shop a Chevy Volt vs a Kia Rio? The Volt isn't some stripped down absolute basic car. You would be more likely to cross shop at least a Prius, if not something higher if you are willing to spend $32.5k-40k on a vehicle (low number assumes tax breaks).

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Your electric bill doesn't go up a few $$ a gallon if we have a war in the Middle East, or a Hurricane in the Gulf etc. Although the cost of electricity can vary it is more constant than gas prices which can spike/drop quickly due to the nature of where most of the oil supplies used are located and refined and method in which it is paid for... or so we are told

For those who do the electric only power.... vs a traditional gas only vehicle. 40 miles is at least 1 to 1.5 gallons per day. So at $2.45 odd for the low grade here in Denver, you are looking at $2.45 to $3.67 per day in gas vs a few hours at 10c per Kw/h. Yes it does move the cost from one area (gas station to electric bill) but if you are dropping $2-3 per day out of your gas costs those savings will add up over time.

And for the other arguement... if you are going to buy a new vehicle... you could go and buy some cheap small car and get very good mileage and maybe pay less over the life of the vehicle, but in saying that, are consumers really truely going to cross shop a Chevy Volt vs a Kia Rio? The Volt isn't some stripped down absolute basic car. You would be more likely to cross shop at least a Prius, if not something higher if you are willing to spend $32.5k-40k on a vehicle (low number assumes tax breaks).

You kw/Hr number is little low if you are using 10 cents. I have not seen power that cheap for a while. I was paying below market rates at 11 cent per Kw/Hr and during last summer prices spike in this area up to 17-20 cent per Kw/Hr. Either way it still works out to be a hell of a lot cheaper to buy electricity than gas even at today's prices

 

[jbernie]

You kw/Hr number is little low if you are using 10 cents. I have not seen power that cheap for a while. I was paying below market rates at 11 cent per Kw/Hr and during last summer prices spike in this area up to 17-20 cent per Kw/Hr. Either way it still works out to be a hell of a lot cheaper to buy electricity than gas even at today's prices

Quite likely... no idea what my rate is.. but regardless... when we saw gas spiking towards $5 last year I don't electric rates were going that way at the same time.

Long term concern is that we see a concerted effort to move over to vehicles that require some form of electric charging (many years away though) but we don't make any efforts to improve the electric grid to allow for this and we are caught well short in being able to support these vehicles.

I believe though that assuming people are primarily doing overnight off peak recharging we should be ok for some time grid wise as demand drops overnight and the increased demand from vehicle charging can help the power stations as they can run at a more constant level of production which makes them more efficent.