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It does make sense, have thought about some of this (except for the ssh idea which I only read about a few days ago), the sentence you refer to is the result of getting way too mad at finally being able to install the base OS and then enter XFCE, only to see it stuck there, felt a bit like having almost completed a 1000 pieces puzzle, getting all pumped up and stuff... only to find out there was one missing piece in the box ! 🤪

But I should have expected this, it's their first attempt at a ppc32 build, and while it's a really fantastic job they're doing this is still experimental to some extent. Anyway, I've posted more than my share in this thread, so at this point I'll just shut up until I've got something constructive to say.
 
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Reading through (almost) all the adventures of Alubook133...
i got an itch to, perhaps try chimera, but, no. Too much, so i did put back my powerbook went into rest again. I'm happy it wanted to wake up though. Morphos never fail!

I've often wonder for myself, why, these enthusiast-people who create these small distributions and put so, so much time into it, don't talk to eachother.

I mean, adelielinux for example. They * still * can.not.get their fancy installer doing the important step of formatting a mac disk, correct, even "format all", so everything else fails while they're busy updating who knows what
 
Reading through (almost) all the adventures of Alubook133...
i got an itch to, perhaps try chimera, but, no. Too much, so i did put back my powerbook went into rest again. I'm happy it wanted to wake up though. Morphos never fail!

I've often wonder for myself, why, these enthusiast-people who create these small distributions and put so, so much time into it, don't talk to eachother.

I mean, adelielinux for example. They * still * can.not.get their fancy installer doing the important step of formatting a mac disk, correct, even "format all", so everything else fails while they're busy updating who knows what
Because lol. The installer likely doesn’t use mac-fdisk.

All you must do is go into the command line, go into superuser mode, and use mac-fdisk to make your partitions. Then run horizon afterwards and install.
 
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Reading through (almost) all the adventures of Alubook133...
you must be quite the courageous (or unconscious) type to inflict this to yourself ! 😁

In fact most of the distros I've tried so far do include a disk partitioning session within their installer, to the notable and yes regrettable exception of Adélie. After a few occurrences (and the help of some nice people here) you get to understand the "pattern" for correctly partitioning the disk, esp. in a multi-boot situation (right now I have 2 OS X and 2 Linux distros installed).

Too bad you gave up on your Powerbook, some distros are quite easy to install and pretty nice in terms of UI/UE, Lubuntu 12.04 remix, Kubuntu 12.04 and Ubuntu MATE 16.04 fall in that category IMHO, with the latter currently being my preferred one, looks real good. But I'd prefer to walk away from Canonical based distros (i.e. anything X-Buntu), therefore my real interest in Chimera Linux, but I'll have to wait until at least next release, the current PPC32 build just doesn't seem to want to do bizness with my Alubook laptop unfortunately (well, not in terms of a fully working DE anyway).
 
I just re-ran Sean's v2 YT clip about installing Adélie Linux on a G4 iMac, boy these many things that flew over my head the first time I watched it 3 months ago - but don't anymore, linux partitioning/mkfs/dependencies/repos/sddm/apk/... and the lot make full sense to me now, very pleasing sentiment I'll tell you.

But more importantly : at around 16:30 Sean mentions that one needs to exec apk add x86-input-libinput to make sure mouse/keyboard do work once in the DE. Stroke me immediately (kind of an Eureka moment ^^) as this is the issue I'm facing with Chimera Linux DE, so I'll try once again to install the base distro and then install sddm and a DE on top of it (I enjoy Plasma a lot so I'll try it out first, though probably too bloated for my little PPC32 1.33GHz with 1.25G RAM). Fingers crossed this will solve that issue ! 🫰

(ps : not Chimera's fault by any means obviously, but naming what is a mere login manager (as useful as it is) a "display manager" is not simply marketing B.S., it also confuses the heck out of people trying to learn and understand what's going on in the Linux realm. The "desktop environment" already does window/display/workspace management, so one's confused at to what a "display manager" can actually do and how it does complement the DE, so why not just call it for what is : a graphical login thing... :rolleyes:)
 
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So I have re-installed Chimera base system on my Alubook, works just fine. I then added SDDM login manager, enabled it - which immediately started it (not expected) - and resulted in a black screen with a (working) mouse pointer, just like it did few weeks ago at first attempt. Uninstalled it to make room for GDM, then installed XFCE4 no problem, however then couldn't install GDM, segfault at 11% of install.

So decided to forget about login managers and attempted to enter XFCE directly (wiith .xinitrc directive and typing startxfce4 in tty), which did get me to the XFCE DE (as posted previously with a screenshot), however still mouse and keyboard inactive.

I tried to install various mouse/kbd related packages : xserver-xorg-input-all, xf86-input-libinput, xorg-input-drivers, but they all refused to install. I could install xf86-input-evdev, but that didn't improve things at all.

I have copied all log/dmesg/Xsession/... files/data present after these attempts so as to examine them and maybe find the culprit, so if someone could point me to where to look I'd greatly appreciate.

In the meantime I also took a pic of a couple of error messages that briefly appear at the moment it enters the XFCE desktop (pic below), but haven't had time yet to investigate.

chimera-xfce4_error-entering-DE.jpg
 
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So I have re-installed Chimera base system on my Alubook, works just fine. I then added SDDM login manager, enabled it - which immediately started it (not expected) - and resulted in a black screen with a (working) mouse pointer, just like it did few weeks ago at first attempt. Uninstalled it to make room for GDM, then installed XFCE4 no problem, however then couldn't install GDM, segfault at 11% of install.

So decided to forget about login managers and attempted to enter XFCE directly (wiith .xinitrc directive and typing startxfce4 in tty), which did get me to the XFCE DE (as posted previously with a screenshot), however still mouse and keyboard inactive.

I tried to install various mouse/kbd related packages : xserver-xorg-input-all, xf86-input-libinput, xorg-input-drivers, but they all refused to install. I could install xf86-input-evdev, but that didn't improve things at all.

I have copied all log/dmesg/Xsession/... files/data present after these attempts so as to examine them and maybe find the culprit, so if someone could point me to where to look I'd greatly appreciate.

In the meantime I also took a pic of a couple of error messages that briefly appear at the moment it enters the XFCE desktop (pic below), but haven't had time yet to investigate.

Gentoo has been testing my patience so I am back on Chimera on my G5 Quad.

Also having trouble getting a desktop environment going. Haven't tried nearly as hard as you though. Considering that people have had past success with the G5, I suspect this is some weird driver issue with your computer.

I might try this on my iBook G4 with similar hardware and report back to you. Could also be there's countless issues with old ass NVIDIA cards so idfk.
 
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Well well well... Looking into the error message I posted above, I search for "/run/seatd.sock", found nothing related to XFCE (more to Wayland and Hyprland, which I'm not using), so logically added seatd to my install, then ran it blindly (no idea what it was supposed to do except I read that it was tied to "supporting devices"), so just typed # seatd and reckoned a socket connection was indeed established, as the /run/seatd.sock file was now present), entered XFCE4 and... nothing, still no mouse/kbd active.

Actually, got a different error msg : went from "no such file" to "Permission denied"... humm, interesting, I was now working from my non-root account (no reason to launch XFCE from root), so I thought let's copy the .xinitrc file to the root account and from there launch seatd in the background and then XFCE. And...

SUCCESS ! ! Of a sort. I _finally_ got the frigging mouse and keyboard to respond, no need to tell you the feeling I think ^^. I've put a screenshot below (after installing neofetch, not included in distro) to give an idea, the 2nd monitor works fine and was easy to setup, responsiveness from moving windows around is not too bad, no browser included in this XFCE distro apparently so I'll have to look for one, obviously just scratched the surface after a fewminutes setting things up.

So what was missing was just the seatd package, advice to people interested here. :p

Next immediate task : have this work from my account, not just root. Have this seatd thing auto started when launching xfce (I'd love to understand how/why/... this is needed, but that'll be for later, if ever). Then look for drivers for the ethernet chip , then the wifi, etc...


chimera-linux_screen1.png
 
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I might try this on my iBook G4 with similar hardware and report back to you. Could also be there's countless issues with old ass NVIDIA cards so idfk.
my laptop has an Nvidia GeForce card which is recognized by the kernel (cf neofetch screen) so that might not be an issue, you should be able to run this on your iBook that has a slightly faster cpu. Dunno about the 64-bit distro for the G5's, should run smoother - if it ever runs, that is.
 
my laptop has an Nvidia GeForce card which is recognized by the kernel (cf neofetch screen) so that might not be an issue, you should be able to run this on your iBook that has a slightly faster cpu. Dunno about the 64-bit distro for the G5's, should run smoother - if it ever runs, that is.
The 64-bit version is installed and runs just fine. Of course the issue is getting the software to work at all though.
 
I suppose you mean the base system installed fine on the Quad, not necessarily the DE... anyway I think it's worth a try on your iBook, with a little luck you might be able to run the whole thing base+XFCE4 DE.

Still plenty to do here, just like the keyboard working fine in tty stopped working once in XFCE, same's happening with the ethernet chip/board, no problemo in tty but then... :/
 
have this work from my account, not just root.
Probably there's some basics missing, The docs mention about having "Privileged Xorg" and the needs for Seat Managements since it's a "systemd-less" Operating System, so elogind or seatd is necessary.

and I didn't tried yet and I can't guarantee that will work, but I'll paste my VoidLinux notes that I always used to install XFCE from base if you try.

0) So after first reboot of the base install and verified that ethernet network can ping 1.1.1.1 for example install those packages

elogind dbus polkit networkmanager

1) After that add your user to those groups

sudo usermod -a -G network,polkitd YourUserHere

2) Enable those services (check the documentation, because I didn't)

dbus polkitd elogind networkmanager

3) Since networkmanager it's required for most Desktop Enviroments remove services that can conflict such as (check the documentation, because I didn't)

dhcpcd wpa_supplicant

4) Since the chimera docs didn't make things more explicit regarding xorg minimal, I would recommend the full xorg package just for the time being, and all the packages that I could remember for a minimal XFCE experience.

xfce4 xserver-xorg setxkbmap alsa-utils bluez blueman udisks ntfs-3g udiskie gvfs

5) Make the configuration for starting XFCE with startx command

echo "exec startxfce4" >> ~/.xinitrc

6) Enable bluethooth service

dinitctl enable bluetoothd

7) Reboot and enter your XFCE with

startx


Regarding the wifi the old VoidLinux PPC docs was usefull as well and worked for me. Both firmware files are still online, and you'll need to download them with "wget" instead of "xbps-uhelper fetch". Follow the manual installation steps.

Good luck
 
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They don't need to be ported, just somebody to build them who is running a PPC MUSL distro. Luckily enough the Adelie dev team recently built ArcticFox, and xeno74 also recently built SeaLion and BrassMonkey for Adelie. Now whether they will run on Chimera i haven't a clue.

That's great news, and I'm hopeful for the progress of those projects.

Thanks for sharing, and it's good to see you around.
 
@dextructor, thanxx a lot, yeah a "few things" missing indeed, not just "seatd"... 😅
I'll confess I kinda skipped the two doc pages you mention, anyway let me go thru your post items, and sorry for the length :

i- reading from "Privileged Xorg" : I just checked and elogind, libseat and seatd are all three already installed on my laptop (the latter two I installed manually due to the error msg I was getting as explained in my prev post, not elogind), but what am I supposed to do with them ? The doc says that they need to be setup, great, but what and how am I supposed to do this ?
After which there's a mention of a "setuid wrapper " and some explanation about it, I have no clue what it all means but apparently I'd better leave it alone - I think anyway.

ii- reading from Seat Managements : I see the XDG_RUNTIME_DIR env var set to 0 right now (logged as root so that's Ok), elogind and turnstile are installed, no idea what to do with them but there's no indication that I should act on them.

However - then I read this : "Keep in mind that seatd very much conflicts with elogind", looks like I need to uninstall seatd (though it solved the mouse/kbd issue yesterday in XFCE), but then what should I do with elogind to make sure kbd/mouse continue to work and avoid getting an error message about seatd missing ??

Here's an abstract :
In Chimera, elogind has this functionality disabled. Instead, it is created and tracked by the turnstile session tracking system.That means whichever solution you use for seat management, you will always have your runtime directory managed by turnstile.

The main reason for this is that when using the “linger” option with user services, the directory needs to remain there as long as the services are running, which is not possible to reliably ensure with elogind unless you set the linger bit separately in elogind too(and even that does not cover all cases).

the heck does this all mean ??? o_O

Ah, just found this in the Alpine wiki, so I'll try it out (after uninstalling seatd) : # dinitctl enable elogind (Alpine -> Chimera translated)
Also mentions polkit which you also do in your post, and it's already installed.
So hopefully this answers my prev question and will make the mouse/kbd continue to work even w/o seatd !

As for your other points :

0) All four packages are already installed
1) will do (Edit : actual group is _polkit)
2) did a # dinitctl list, all these services already up and running (so no need to do eg rc-service polkit to start manually)
3) Dunno how to get the ethernet link up without using dhcpcd, so I'll keep it for now. Btw I have to regularly run dhcpcd , otherwise the ethernet link goes down, any way to keep it up all the time without manual intervention ?
4) already installed xfce4 and xserver-xorg, don't know what the others you mention are, so won't install them until I find a need for them
5) already there from the start, with slightly different line of code in .xinirc, seems to be Ok
6) # dinitctl enable bluetoothd : "bluetoothd" not recognized as a valid service...
7) yep

NGL, this is a tad heavier than I thought it would be, underestimated the load, pretty happy when it first worked yesterday so wouldn't imagine there was still quite some way to go before even starting to customize the DE and play with it... but hey, a very recent, modern OS on my good old Powerbook laptop ? TOTALLY worth it ! :)

Update : after the few changes noted above (most notably uninstalled "seatd"), first off # startx alone does no good, then #startxfce4 gets me in XFCE4 DE but not only the kbd/mouse don't work but I don't even get the mouse pointer, "seatd missing" error msg etc... :-/

So I'll reinstall seatd for now, even though it's said to "conflict with elogind" as per the Chimera doc, hopefully I'll recover a working DE.
Update : just did, also added my userid to group "_seatd" (figured out that's what was needed to avoid error msg and indeed got none), and... yep, worked out as expected, mouse/kbd now working again in XFCE4. Some mess up with monitors, but that's It for today (tonight, rather).
 
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and some explanation about it, I have no clue what it all means
I don't make the rules, and I'm not by miles away a developer, so take everything with a grain of salt.

Any O.S. designed after 2000 did not want everything to be run using admin privileges, so by design you can use root, but you don't need it.

Xorg it's really old, and changes happened along the way and "non-root xorg" was one of them, so unless Chimera is wrong (which I doubt) something needs to be verified on your end. And/or things needs to be fixed and a proper report would help a lot of Chimera devs.

Non root Xorg from Gentoo Wiki explains a little about the wrapper being some bug of the graphics driver requiring root, but as well it emphasis on the elogind being installed, added properly and started as a service.

And as well reading the logs to see if you are a user of the group, and to troubleshoot for whatever reason you can't start Xorg without root privileges.

Take your time and read.

elogind to make sure kbd/mouse continue to work and a void getting an error message about seatd missing ??
Like I said, I don't make the rules and I can't to fully explain why things behave this way...

Seatd was designed to work primarily with wayland regarding input devices graphics etc, and since Chimera prefer modern solutions like Wayland and Pipewire so it can explain why this package it's needed for those environments.

But elogind otherwise it's different by essence when it allows to run some of the environments like KDE and Gnome without systemd, but requires it's fair share of configuration, service etc.

Most of Desktop Environments are on the way of migrating to Wayland (I like for some reasons and dislike for another set of reasons) but I'll not complain here, and if elogind works I'll continue to setup on my machines until it doesn't.

Regarding my notes like I said, this works for VoidLinux, and may work on Chimera but I didn't test it since I have no time and intention at the moment since most of the packages I use on my daily Void machines aren't ported and it's working fine.

My motto is: "If you are wise enough you follow the rules, until it comes the day that you are competent enough so you can make the new rules".

I installed Gentoo on some machines a few times following some docs, but that means that I know what I'm doing?! Hell no, just means that I can follow instructions.

But Gentoo it's very old and have a good enough manual, and Chimera doesn't have the time and resources yet, so experienced users can navigate different manuals, and if they use history things will be ok.


: "bluetoothd" not recognized as a valid service...


If you for example don't want to install bluez package because "you don't need them" it's your judgement, but also it's well described on the Chimera Wiki and when you'll try to enable and had that error, you now know why.

Like I said, my notes it's my, works for me every time because I tested on my machines using Void since they are available on x86, ARM, PPC etc. If you can make better notes, by all means make it and share please.


Dunno how to get the ethernet link up without using dhcpcd, so I'll keep it for now.

Same thing, most Desktop Environments use networkmanager, and when properly installed, configured, it would start automatically at the tty, effectively replacing dhcpcd. So if you don't follow my recommendations it's at your own peril.

but hey, a very recent, modern OS on my good old Powerbook laptop ? TOTALLY worth it
I like the idea of modern system components like the kernel, but on my machines I use Openbox since it's dead simple, and SX to start, but probably both won't be ported to Chimera as far as I know.

Otherwise I would use LXDE because it's even lighter than XFCE for my use case.

Good luck
 
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And as well reading the logs to see if you are a user of the group, and to troubleshoot for whatever reason you can't start Xorg without root privileges.
like I said, since I added my non-root account to the _seatd group, I don't have to be root anymore to enter XFCE. So right now I have elogind and libseat co-residing, and it _appears_ to work fine, at least I can get into XFCE (from tty, no DM installed yet, last tries were unsuccessful), mouse/kbd et all operating normally.

I've read the Gentoo wiki about non-root Xorg, and everything it says should be installed and run as a service _is_ indeed installed and runs as a service. No fb0 related error message in the Xorg.0.log file either, loginctl user-status responds as it should so elogind is running properly, etc... IOW : there's nothing in that page that my setup doesn't comply with - yet, can't get mouse/kbd to work in XFCE if I don't have seatd running. Was worth a shot though, after first read thru I thought that could be it, but no.

I'll look into the rest of your post later.
 
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So just did some additional check-ups, and found that networkmanager was not running as a service (it is now, and enabled), likewise udiskie which I installed, though I usually don't blindly install "stuff" without having at least a minimal understanding of what they're for, suffering from way too much Windows bloatware/spyware I guess (well, by "blindly" installing Chimera I did just that, so lol).

As for alsa-utils (that's for the audio, right ?) the Chimera installation wiki recommends not to install it, so instead I installed pipewire as requested - however then dinitctl start wireplumber gave a "failed to find service descriptor" error, strange...

Similarly, when trying to apk add bluez or blueman, I get a "segmentation fault" error, and that's with the horiz. bar up to 88% right below "Installing pipewire-bluetooth (1.4.1-r0)"... looks like my laptop has issues with plumbing and pipes ^^... maybe I'll install alsa-utils if that's what it takes to have audio working, while bluetooth is a no-go for now apparently.

Just saw with #ip a that networkmanager adds some info about IPv6 address as well as a "secondary dynamic noprefix route" with a related additional IP, in fact ping'ed that IP and it did respond... looks like nm adds a secondary IP to the ethernet i/f. Anxious to see if the ethernet link now stays up thru the whole session (while without nm I'm forced to re-do dhcpcd every now and then, probably because dhcpcd was not enabled/started as a service before, dunno).

So... tried again to get into XFCE without seatd running, and it failed again, in fact for a split second I can see the error msg about missing seatd just before it launches the DE... :?

Ok, at this point I'm done spending time trying to do the "right" thing while I now have a working XFCE DE with mouse/keyboard working just fine (OMG unbelievable !). I shouldn't need seatd to run ? seatd is not compatible with elogind ? BFD. I'm good anyway, for now at least. So thank you again for your help, I'll now move on to maybe more interesting and productive things I initially wanted to do with this.
 
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To put it mildly, my first experiments with Chimera-XFCE aren't exactly satisfying. I quickly found that in XFCE (that distro anyway) there is no internet related app, no mail app no browser no FTP client or server.

I searched for a dozen different browsers I knew about but none available in the repos, installed "lynx" which is a console/text only web browser, worked fine but not very practical when searching for specific information. I then read about epiphany being an XFCE based browser, first time ever heard of it, so installed it successfully and attempted to run it. Boy that didn't go too well lol, full CPU hog and couldn't even pass the "default browser Yes/No ?" question that appeared long after I launched it... so after a while had to kill it to stop the carnage.

But then things got real bad : the apk database is apparently corrupted, I'm getting this below :

ERROR: FDB format error (line 236950, entry 'Z')
ERROR: Unable to read database: v2 database format error
ERROR: Failed to open apk database: v2 database format error

whatever I try to do with apk, including apk fix. Not sure if this will help, but I believe the last addition I made was flatpak (after reading in the Chimera wiki it was Ok to install it), which installed successfully. In fact I can use it, except it lists nothing, I tried to look for a browser there and other stuff, but nothing came out of flatpak.

Found this recent discussion on github where the "apk guys" recognize an issue on their side, anyway I don't know if this is easily fixable or not... :?
 
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No solution yet for this issue with the apk DB, no feedback here either...

Apparently this is due to the file /lib/apk/db/installed being faulty, so going to look into apk tools here and there to see what can be done.

Having said that, not going to put too much time/energy into it : after an initial positive impression XFCE appears to be rather sluggish on my laptop, windows and apps take a lot of time to open up, window refresh quite slow too, the only web browser I found so far kills the CPU, so even though this DE is kind of "light" compared with GNOME or worse yet KDE Plasma, it seems like it's too much of a load for my G4 Alubook.

Now that I have a little better understanding of its intricacies, I'll probably code a bash script to run thru the Chimera Linux base install + configuration in case I'll have to re-install it (and try a lighter DE if that exist), this will save time (and pain) in the future. This, and work on grub so that I can boot into any of the OS X and Linux distros I have installed, hopefully can automate it as much as I did with yaboot (or maybe will dump Chimera for now and restore yaboot in /dev/sda2 of which I've made a copy before moving to grub/Chimera).
 
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Not much happening here lately... well, lacking any response I've simply edited the "installed" packages db file to get rid of the offending line (in fact, couple of lines, they go by "R-Z pairs" around that line) and apk started to work normally again (apparently, though I suspect I did break s'thing) so could try some more stuff.

Installed sddm "display manager", but the b*tch is slow AF on my laptop, have to wait 15s in between typing letters for the password, a bit like the experience I initially had wih Chimera when attempting to run a full distro including the XFCE DE, only worse.
So I then wanted to replace it with lightdm but it's not available in the Chimera repo, then tried gdm but got a segmentation fault after 11% package d/load... :?

So I finally got rid of any DM, back to entering XFCE4 manually at tty login prompt, played around a bit, many things missing compared to what I get with other distros (no web browser, no mail app, not even ftp client or server, no wifi chip support, not even ethernet support, etc...) plus pretty sluggish operations and of course my lack of expertise with Linux - all in all decided it wasn't really worth the effort *for me* at this point (YMMV, as usual), simply put looks like my good old 1.33GHz/1.25GB laptop is probably not up to the task - so moving on to other adventures (back to MATE 16.04 right now, by coincidence a "MATE 18.04 for PPC" thread just appeared in MR :-]).
 
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Not much happening here lately... well, lacking any response I've simply edited the "installed" packages db file to get rid of the offending line (in fact, couple of lines, they go by "R-Z pairs" around that line) and apk started to work normally again (apparently, though I suspect I did break s'thing) so could try some more stuff.

Installed sddm "display manager", but the b*tch is slow AF on my laptop, have to wait 15s in between typing letters for the password, a bit like the experience I initially had wih Chimera when attempting to run a full distro including the XFCE DE, only worse.
So I then wanted to replace it with lightdm but it's not available in the Chimera repo, then tried gdm but got a segmentation fault after 11% package d/load... :?

So I finally got rid of any DM, back to entering XFCE4 manually at tty login prompt, played around a bit, many things missing compared to what I get with other distros (no web browser, no mail app, not even ftp client or server, no wifi chip support, not even ethernet support, etc...) plus pretty sluggish operations and of course my lack of expertise with Linux - all in all decided it wasn't really worth the effort *for me* at this point (YMMV, as usual), simply put looks like my good old 1.33GHz/1.25GB laptop is probably not up to the task - so moving on to other adventures (back to MATE 16.04 right now, by coincidence a "MATE 18.04 for PPC" thread just appeared in MR :-]).
Good news is that MintPPC is waking up again :)
 
Hey, thanks for pointing that out, totally missed it ! Mint+XFCE could be a good mix for PPC32 Linux.

Looking into Void PPC right now (bumped into an archive while looking for s'thing else), the live ISO (from 2021-08, musl version) did get me into the DE (XFCE 4, with Epiphany running normally while it clogged the CPU in Chimera) but doesn't detect the laptop internal SSD so no luck installing so far, I'll try the non-musl distro (and the kernel 4.4 if needed). Looks like the project has been abandoned anyway, not too sure...
 
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