Google is a fanatic tool.
If CCP membership is mandatory, don't you think they will have much more member? China has 1.4 billion of people. So get your story right.
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China Expanding Government iPhone Ban
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Google is a fanatic tool.
If CCP membership is mandatory, don't you think they will have much more member? China has 1.4 billion of people. So get your story right.
Free nation will censor anything politically incorrect? Free country will censor its own pformer president? LOL?
A free country has highest population in prison, streets are being occupied by homeless and drag addict? A free country that has rampt thrift? A free country has highest gun murder rate?
US sounds like a third world country to me.
Please, this is war between China and US. Stolen or not, the fact remains we have 7nm and we will get it. There is no ethical question during the war, we are coming after you.
Just like Facebook, X etc is collecting data from population all over the world? And how US is constantly wire tapping leaders of its own ally?
Pooh bear is in your head. China has WAY more homeless people, and doesn't imprison people they just kill them.
LOL...You are full of illusions. You have any proof? That's right yon don't.
But, homelessness and drug problem is rampant in both Canada and United States. And you guys going full legalizing drugs. Let's see how many drug addicts will be added into your street, LOL.
Oh, by the way, it is apparently leagl to steal in United States. Polices aren't going to do anything about it.
Oh sweet, I found way to solve your homeless and drug problem. Just allow them to steal, it is their human rights! Give them free staffs, free drugs, kick out legal home owner and provided to homeless. You know human rights right?
Brainwashed? I've provided links to show Chinese dominance in batteries, EVs, and noted their ability to produce a real 7nm chip using DUV. What have you provided? A promise that Intel is going to introduce a 7nm chip next year, one year after SMIC??? And even after I linked the reason why SMIC moved past Intel by recruiting TSMC lead engineers, you accuse them of stealing tech? Talk about brainwashed.
It's amazing how pathetic you are that Taiwan has to be included in your definition of "West" to fit your viewpoint that the US hasn't already fallen behind China. Unfortunately for you, it doesn't matter. America can close off trade but it will just remain isolated from progress in China and East Asia, which includes Taiwan. But I don't expect an American to understand basic geography.
To somehow state that the Chinese are worse because they keep tight control over their citizens is quite sad, especially given the illegal wars in Iraq and Syria started by the US. The US has literally bombed innocent people for 20 years with impunity and people around the world have finally taken notice. That's why the Middle East, Latin America and Africa have already moved closer to China.
And here's what "freedom" in the US looks like:
Eww, no thanks!
Don't get so excited. Although China has 7nm, it is remains to see if China can past 7nm. But if this is machine that created by human, it is only time that China will gets EUV machine on their own.
Luckily, chip advancement has slow down quite bit and as we approaching limits of chip making, advancement will slow down even more. This is perfect timing for China to catch up. When China catch up, good luck to MUERICA.
What funny is that the only thing Taiwan can show off right now is chip making. And guess what, US wants dominance on advanced chip making. Meaning eventually US will see TSMC as threat. Once China catches on, Taiwan is less meaningful to US.
The Chip and Science and Inflation Reduction Acts are part of this. US want scuk it's ally thin and dry, so they can be number one. And US doesn't care about other.
No thanks to this.
It's widely known SMIC is supplied by US companies and stole tech to finish their 7nm foundry before us. When you are being supplied by the US and using their tech does it really make you first?
Taiwan is a western ideal country, not part of china, and allied with the US. so yes they are part of the "west".
The Chinese absolutely are worse because they have tight control over their citizens, it's the definition of living in an oppressive government which is absolutely a disadvantage to them.
Here's what "Freedom" in China looks like.
To be clear, I'm just saying that China has the intellectual capital to produce 7nm and beyond. The problem is the US' crybaby tactics to restrict ASML EUV exports other materials from East Asia (Korea, Japan). China may be able to develop EUV on their own but even if this does not happen, I think the EU will eventually move away from the US and that will allow ASML to sell to China. The latter is more of my forecast from what I've seen in EVs. It would be very strange for the EU to form a partnership with China on EVs but not on chips, especially with the US being uncompetitive with China and Taiwan.
You must have some proof right? Or you just make this up?
Not according to your country and not according to Constitution of Republic of China. There is no country on the earth called Taiwan. Please educate yourself.
And Taiwan is in eastern Aisa, not west. Believe what you want.
Oh, so US is classic living example of right control over their citizen, I mean US has wire tapping its citizen forever, even extended to oversea. US politicans gets donation from big corporations and works for the benefit of big corporation.
Man, you can find any video you want. It doesn't change facts that US streets are overruned with homeless and drug addicts. It doesn't change fact US has highest gun murder rate in the world, it doesn't change fact US has highest prison population. It also doesn't change fact that the Chinese government has high approval from its citizens. And people are enjoying their life everyday.
Right...so by this logic, the iPhone is a Taiwanese and Chinese device?
I know you don't understand this because, well, you've been schooled under the American education system but Taiwan is not part of the "West", even according to the official US position.
I doubt you even know where Taiwan is or the various countries the US has bombed over the years and would like to bomb next. Let me help you:
Thanks for proving my point. No one is going to look through the videos you linked and think those people are worse off than the Americans I linked.
Here, enjoy some more videos of the "greatest" nation on earth:
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West can mean two things:
1) Geologcially: West Hemisphere
2) Ideologically: Anything follows western ideology, such as so called democracy, universal rights etc. Now days is America lead value or any countries that United States consider to be its allies. Most important western counties are five eyes. Then you have European nations such as Germany, French as secondary allies, then you have Japan or South Korea following as allies because common threats. If someday Fenech or German doesn't do whatever US wants, the. It will not be western nation. LOL
The US's policy as much means that China is a part of Taiwan as it means Taiwan is a part of China. Do you think China is ruled by Taiwan? Equally valid reading/the US refuses to state which is what they mean.
China primarily ended poverty by redefining what the term poverty means-- to $2.30 per day. The US defines poverty as $40 per day. Apply the same definition and China has a much higher poverty rate.
I'm surprised you posted maps without the 9 dash line. Printing those in China could get you in trouble :O
None of it really matters, anymore-- China is falling apart and won't recover. Just by population demographics, by 2050 their population will be half of what it is today. Along the way, and overwhelming number people will be old and need to be cared for. If they try to counter it, by, say, forcing everyone to have 4 kids, then they'll also have all those dependents as well. Covid forced people to recognized the CCP for the brutal dictatorship it is, and that won't be unseen. Almost a third of China's GDP was in the real estate market, and it was a pyramid scheme that is now falling apart. It supplied all the income to local governments, which were already burried in debt-- and now have lose their income stream. Another ~1/3 of Chinese GDP was exports, and those are falling every quarter, with no end in sight. Things like the topic of this thread will only make it happen faster. Much of China's growth was based on foreign investment in China, and that's pulling out at unprecedented rates.
If China decides to try to take Taiwan by force, the US doesn't even have to get involved militarily-- China is overwhelming dependent on sea imports for food and energy. Blockade their imports and China will be starved and without energy in short order. China's navy is a green water navy, so they could do it without even being in range of China's ships (or land based anti ship missiles). And that's assuming the first island chain doesn't do it one their own pretty much all of which are strongly anti China at this point.
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This is false. The United State has signed Joint Communique on the Establishment of Diplomatic Relations.
It is clear stated that
- The Government of the United States of America acknowledges the Chinese position that there is but one China and Taiwan is part of China.
Secondly, PRC is successor of ROC and all ROC claimed terrory is automatically claimed by PRC, this is including Taiwan.
You have proof of your claim? You don't even understand the efforts went into on poverty reduction.
China is still growing at rate of 5% far exceeding any developed nation. I would call this falling apart. The only problem for China is if it is capable find new growth points.
For now, 75% of chip productions are above 28nm. Mature process count for all IoT, car making, telecommunication equipment etc. China is capable producing them and sell with lower price than western competition. Wait until China dominate in this area and it won't take long for China to process ability to produce advanced process.
China' EV is dominanting market. Pay close attention to car shows. Old car makers will struggle to compete with new EV. And China is far ahead in EV.
China is also dominanting on clear energy equipment, such as solar panels, etc.
It is only natural for low end manufacturing going to other countries that has lower wage. However, China economy is still strong.
Try and see.
The “One China Policy” and the “One China Principle” are not the same.
Journalists and analysts often conflate the two versions, and explicitly say that the U.S. abides by the PRC’s version of One China. However, this is both incorrect and a false interpretation of U.S. policy.The United States’ “One China Policy” does not recognize Taiwan as part of the PRC.
The U.S. has never recognized Taiwan as a part of the PRC. The U.S. merely acknowledges that the PRC holds the position that Taiwan is part of the PRC.
U.S. Policy – The One China Policy
The official U.S. policy is that Taiwan’s status is undetermined. The One China Policy is intentionally ambiguous, and the U.S. does not take a position on the resolution of the Cross-Strait situation – leaving any final resolution of their differences up to the two parties. However, the U.S. opposes either side unilaterally changing the status quo, and has stated its interest in the peaceful resolution of Cross-Strait differences. Washington has also said that any such resolution should take place with the consent of the Taiwan people.While interpreted slightly differently by different U.S. administrations, the U.S. One China Policy has long served as a way to maintain a strong relationship with Taiwan while also maintaining official diplomatic relations with the PRC.
PRC Policy – The One China Principle
The PRC follows the One China Principle, a core belief stating that Taiwan is an inalienable part of China, with the PRC serving as the sole legitimate government of that China. The U.S. acknowledges this position, but does not take a stance on its validity.
Resources
The Taiwan Relations Act, the three Joint Communiqués with the PRC, and the Six Assurances to Taiwan provide the foundation for U.S. policy on Taiwan and China.Please see One China Policy Primer – The Brookings Institution for how the U.S.’ One-China policy interacts with these documents.
See also One China, Multiple Interpretations by the Center for Advanced China Research.
Regarding economy, I'll set a reminder for 6 months from now and we'll see how your take ages
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The “One China Policy” and the “One China Principle” are not the same.
Journalists and analysts often conflate the two versions, and explicitly say that the U.S. abides by the PRC’s version of One China. However, this is both incorrect and a false interpretation of U.S. policy.
The United States’ “One China Policy” does not recognize Taiwan as part of the PRC.
The U.S. has never recognized Taiwan as a part of the PRC. The U.S. merely acknowledges that the PRC holds the position that Taiwan is part of the PRC.
U.S. Policy – The One China Policy
The official U.S. policy is that Taiwan’s status is undetermined. The One China Policy is intentionally ambiguous, and the U.S. does not take a position on the resolution of the Cross-Strait situation – leaving any final resolution of their differences up to the two parties. However, the U.S. opposes either side unilaterally changing the status quo, and has stated its interest in the peaceful resolution of Cross-Strait differences. Washington has also said that any such resolution should take place with the consent of the Taiwan people.
While interpreted slightly differently by different U.S. administrations, the U.S. One China Policy has long served as a way to maintain a strong relationship with Taiwan while also maintaining official diplomatic relations with the PRC.
PRC Policy – The One China Principle
The PRC follows the One China Principle, a core belief stating that Taiwan is an inalienable part of China, with the PRC serving as the sole legitimate government of that China. The U.S. acknowledges this position, but does not take a stance on its validity.
Resources
The Taiwan Relations Act, the three Joint Communiqués with the PRC, and the Six Assurances to Taiwan provide the foundation for U.S. policy on Taiwan and China.
Please see One China Policy Primer – The Brookings Institution for how the U.S.’ One-China policy interacts with these documents.
See also One China, Multiple Interpretations by the Center for Advanced China Research.
Regarding economy, I'll set a reminder for 6 months from now and we'll see how your take ages
Why you be bringing facts into this discussion?
The “One China Policy” and the “One China Principle” are not the same.
Journalists and analysts often conflate the two versions, and explicitly say that the U.S. abides by the PRC’s version of One China. However, this is both incorrect and a false interpretation of U.S. policy.
The United States’ “One China Policy” does not recognize Taiwan as part of the PRC.
The U.S. has never recognized Taiwan as a part of the PRC. The U.S. merely acknowledges that the PRC holds the position that Taiwan is part of the PRC.
U.S. Policy – The One China Policy
The official U.S. policy is that Taiwan’s status is undetermined. The One China Policy is intentionally ambiguous, and the U.S. does not take a position on the resolution of the Cross-Strait situation – leaving any final resolution of their differences up to the two parties. However, the U.S. opposes either side unilaterally changing the status quo, and has stated its interest in the peaceful resolution of Cross-Strait differences. Washington has also said that any such resolution should take place with the consent of the Taiwan people.
While interpreted slightly differently by different U.S. administrations, the U.S. One China Policy has long served as a way to maintain a strong relationship with Taiwan while also maintaining official diplomatic relations with the PRC.
PRC Policy – The One China Principle
The PRC follows the One China Principle, a core belief stating that Taiwan is an inalienable part of China, with the PRC serving as the sole legitimate government of that China. The U.S. acknowledges this position, but does not take a stance on its validity.
Resources
The Taiwan Relations Act, the three Joint Communiqués with the PRC, and the Six Assurances to Taiwan provide the foundation for U.S. policy on Taiwan and China.
Please see One China Policy Primer – The Brookings Institution for how the U.S.’ One-China policy interacts with these documents.
See also One China, Multiple Interpretations by the Center for Advanced China Research.
Regarding economy, I'll set a reminder for 6 months from now and we'll see how your take ages
I am sorry. As Chinese, we understand that US has made commitment on One China policy and does not recognize either Taiwan is independent states or Republic of China.
Therefore, the only conclusion that US is regonize that Taiwan is not independent status and PRC has legitimate concern over Taiwan.
However, this does not matter. Taiwan issue is entirely Chinese internal matter. US doesn't not have any legitimate rights to intervene our internal matter. This is our bottom line and we have made clear that if Taiwan becomes de facto independent or it is safe to assume peaceful unification is unachievable, we have rights to use military force.
Let us all hope this day will not come, but it does not help when US is flaming the flame. It is very clear to us that US wants China starts war and drag China's economy growth. There is no question about Biden's evil plan, Russia-Ukraine war is best example of US divisibe police.
It is pretty clear to me that the more chaos US can create, the more money it's military complex will make. More chaos , means more country will depends on US which helps maintain its position.
Lol, please. Taiwan is functioning as an independent country in every way. They have democratically elected leaders, they have personal freedoms and free speech that would never be allowed if they were actually Chinese, and they have their own military-- primarily aimed at defending themselves from China. Do you know of any other says, cites, with a military defending themselves from the country they're part of? Hell, there are tarrifs on trade between China and Taiwan (like between other countries), and China avoids flying in Taiwan's airspace (note that I did not say air defence identification zone).
China like to push the agenda that it's an "internal matter", but it's no more an internal matter than Russia invading Ukraine.
The US has created an unprecedented period of global peace and economic growth since the end of WW2. They enforced the free seas and global trade that allowed China's "economic miracle" to occur-- as well as other "miracles" across the planet (none of these are actually miracles-- they're just the result of access to free trade, information, and protection from predatory nations). If the US stops, no country has more to lose than China-- who's economy is more dependent on exports than any other, and who is HUGELY dependent on imports for food (China produces 77% as many calories as it consumes) and energy (e.g. China is a net importer by 67% on oil).
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It doesn't matter if it is functional as independent status, it is not in terms of international recognition and law. They are not independent and never will be, if you think they are independent, so be you. I don't think what you think matters. There are two things matters in this world:
1) Money and resources
2) Military
Taiwan has neither.
Russia and Ukraine are de facto two countries, both of them are inside UN. Taiwan is entirely Chinese territory, and it doesn't even recognized as independent country by UN.
I tell you what, I support Russia self-defense right. This Russia - Ukrainian is pushed by west and Russia has every rights to defend themselves from Ukraine shelling.
Our determination of unification is strong, even if the war push back our economic progress by 30 years, it will be worth it.
I realized that there will be no common ground here. But we all hope the war does not occur. US and it's alliws must remember don't push us and don't flame the war. It will be on you if the war starts and death will be on you.
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Do you support Ukraine's right to defend themselves?
Even failing that, what a silly statement-- Ukraine wasn't shelling Russia until Russia invaded Ukraine.
Taiwan is not legally recognized because China has used their economic size to bully countries into that position-- "if you want to trade with us at all, you will not legally recognize Taiwan as a country". Despite that, other countries have trade agreements, defacto embassies, military agreements, tariffs, etc with Taiwan. As China's economic might fades over the rest of this decade, and beyond, I'd expect the formal legal recognition to reverse course a bit.
I'm curious what date you think Taiwan became part of China. As in, historically, mainland China and Taiwan were both controlled by the ROC (Taiwan). There was a civil war, between the communists and ROC government. Territory was taken. The ROC never lost control of Taiwan (in fact, their main government moved to there from mainland China).
No peace treaty was ever signed, nor was Taiwan ever taken by military force. So, by your reconning... when did Taiwan become part of communist China?
"It will be on the USA if China invades a peaceful country" is a silly take. If China invades Taiwan, it will be on China.
"Our determination of unification is strong, even if the war push back our economic progress by 30 years, it will be worth it." is also a silly take. You can only have the industrial revolution/economic miracle once, and China already had it. If they're set back 30 years, that's where they'll stay. That's also ignoring that in 30 years, China's population will have fallen to half of what it is today-- the faster a countries "economic miracle", the harder the birth rate fall off-- China had theirs late, and then exacerbated the demographic problem with the one child policy. So, no cheap labor for the second round-- just old dependents.
Cheap labor china had for the last round:
Current situation:
^yellow bars are people that likely don't exist-- China recent revised their population estimates down, but they didn't say who was missing. The yellow is best guess at where the missing people are.
Following that forward 30 years, there's only one thing happening to China's population.
This hasn't been getting better, either. China's birth rate continues to drop, now at 1.09 (2.2 is the population sustaining level in a developed country).
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No, backlash to the US government for banning officials from using some chinese phones and persuading US carriers not to sell those same chinese phones.
Ukraine has been shelling Donbas area before the war starts. Russia has ever legitimate rights to defends themselves. NATO expansion also also triggers Russia's self-defense. The war is entirely provoked by America and funded by America and its alies.
I support Russia and its action to defense themselves.
Learn some history buddy. Taiwan has been part of China since 10th century, since Song Dynasty. Please also learn Koxinga and how he took over Taiwan from Dutch. Also learn how Qing Court unified Taiwan and ROC consider Taiwan is part of ROC.
Since PRC is only legal successor to ROC, it has legal claim to Taiwan.
It will be on USA and its action of provoking the war. To who's surprise, USA has been in war since its foundation, countless of war crime has been committed by USA.
Remember this map...
End of discussion, won't reply anymore.
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Ukraine has been shelling Donbas area before the war starts. Russia has ever legitimate rights to defends themselves. NATO expansion also also triggers Russia's self-defense. The war is entirely provoked by America and funded by America and its alies.
I support Russia and its action to defense themselves.
Learn some history buddy. Taiwan has been part of China since 10th century, since Song Dynasty. Please also learn Koxinga and how he took over Taiwan from Dutch. Also learn how Qing Court unified Taiwan and ROC consider Taiwan is part of ROC.
Since PRC is only legal successor to ROC, it has legal claim to Taiwan.
It will be on USA and its action of provoking the war. To who's surprise, USA has been in war since its foundation, countless of war crime has been committed by USA.
Remember this map...中国一点都不能少，台湾永远是中国的一部分，。即使台湾寸草不生我们也要保证祖国的统一。
End of discussion, won't reply anymore.
Excellent. Can always tell the other side knows they've lost the argument when they say, "End of discussion, won't reply anymore."
I've been waiting for the 9 dash line. Chinese sea grab, despite being internationally refuted and going against all convention.
China’s ‘nine-dash line, historic rights’ invalid – tribunal
The international arbitral tribunal has concluded that China's "nine-dash line" in the South China Sea is "invalid" and that it does not have "historic rights" over the disputed region.
globalnation.inquirer.net
"Historic rights" in general are a misguided non starter. Every area has been controlled by many groups of people. Should the Japanese claim they have "historic rights" to mainland China, because they controled it in the 1940s?
The Donbas is part of Ukraine. Ukraine shelling Russian forces in the Donbas is part of the Ukraine/Russia conflict-- which mostly started in 2014 (I say mostly because before that Russia was sending in unflagged soldiers to sew discontent). In that era, Russia sent Wagner forces into the Donbas-- which is who got shelled.
NATO expansion:
It's not like NATO is militarily taking territory. NATO is "expanding" because they fear Russia invading them-- joining NATO is the best way to prevent it. Russia "defending itself" into Ukraine has actually resulted in the largest NATO "expansion" in decades (from countries with real military power, that double russia's border with NATO-- Russia managed to turn formally neutral countries into NATO countries with their "defense"). It's actually quite analogous to how Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, India, Indonesia, Australia, etc have all be making military alliances more than ever before-- because China has been getting aggressive. Nobody is building military alliances against, say, Switzerland.
Taiwan today is no more part of China than China today is part of Taiwan. In either direction, the state of affairs is a stalled civil war that never had any resolution unifying them.
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This logic could have worked only if there was no illegitimate coup and violence in February 2014. Actually there was a legitimate way to elect a president that people wanted according to the constitution without any violence and keep the territorial integrity. When your family get burned alive you don't have to submit to any illegitimate regime and the UN charter actually agrees with you and supports you with your right for the self-determination.
When you "play games" on a certain level it is important to have statesmanship competencies. Even at the very basic level if you claim territorial integrity you'll have to continue to pay social securities/pensions to all the territories that you claim your own let alone you don't cut water supply to any of the territories which is an act of genocide.
For this very reason US is hoping for the coup in Russia in order to have it disintegrated. Otherwise if we accept "your logic" there is no point in coup in Russia as Russia in any scenario will always have a legitimate right to claim its territorial integrity unconditionally.
If you think that having a "friend" in a shape of United States somehow liberates you from the burden of having statesmanship competencies you are wrong. United States is not as strong as you think it is.