Chinese iPhone Shipments to US Plunge to 2011 Lows Amid Trade Tensions

[Darth Tulhu]

The Star Trek universe is a fantasy. And that universe is not devoid of greed, conflict and tribalism etc

The future depicted in Star Trek is unlikely to ever be.

The point I was making is that there IS a way to deal with the job loss that automation will cause, and used Star Trek as an example.

It will require a cultural shift in the attitude of the government towards its citizens, emphasizing the collective greater good over individual financial gain (see the rise of Singapore in the last 60 years). So while yes, Star Trek is a fantasy it doesn't mean we cannot or should not aspire to get there.

After all, the individuals that say "I can't" or "I can" are BOTH right.

 

[Darth Tulhu]

Not that so much, but free will definitely will cause a problem in socialism or communism. People just do not like being told what they will do and how they will live.

I was not implying this would be EASY nor SIMPLE.

But we definitely need to look into finding something DIFFERENT than what we've been stuck in. Whether it's a hybrid system or all-new, governmental INVESTMENT in the COLLECTIVE that makes up a society and a move away from individualism is what is necessary in the coming wave of automation.

So, basically the opposite approach than what the US is taking now (the destruction of ALL social programs), and more similar to what China has done to allow its rise in the World's economic stage (despite all the authoritarian crap that accompanied it).

 

[Fuzzball84]

The point I was making is that there IS a way to deal with the job loss that automation will cause, and used Star Trek as an example.

It will require a cultural shift in the attitude of the government towards its citizens, emphasizing the collective greater good over individual financial gain (see the rise of Singapore in the last 60 years). So while yes, Star Trek is a fantasy it doesn't mean we cannot or should not aspire to get there.

After all, the individuals that say "I can't" or "I can" are BOTH right.

Star Trek is maybe not the best example. In that world AI is used primarily as a tool, and its use is sparingly. The federation depicted in Star Trek still relies heavily on human assets.

Maybe this is because in the time it was conceived, AI was a science fiction, and presumed the use would be sparingly because of its computational requirements. The notable examples being the android data and the ships computer.

It could also be the case that society decided to limit its use to being a tool. That an abundance of it would be so damaging and dangerous that they decided to limit its usage and deployment.

So the world of Star Trek could more likely be a warning.

 

[Keymaster]

Wasn't this offset by a spike in shipments ahead of the anticipated tariffs per the stories on MR about Apple fying planes full of iPhones and other devices to the US?

That's where the $700 million came in, it's what was shipped before the tariff increase shut the door. A 72% decrease is in line with about a week of shipping from last year. There will be more shipments before that in March, they knew the tariffs were coming, but it was such a huge increase that everyone moved fast in April to do what they could.

And the whole tariff thing is nonsense, as is Trump trying to control the operation of individual companies. The president has no business or legal right to tell a business what to do, where to put a factory, or anything like that. It's not how our system is supposed to work, that's how a dictatorship works (that includes communist countries like Russia or North Korea). Everyone should be very worried about this, it's hurting the economy.

 

[Mousse]

Chinese shipments of iPhones and other mobile devices to the United States dropped dramatically in April, hitting their lowest levels since 2011, according to newly released customs data (via Bloomberg).

Click bait by Bloomberg. Might the lower shipment be related to the record/panic shipment back in March? Everybody and their monkey was trying to get their devices to the US before Trump's tariff hit.

 

[jfreedle2]

I was not implying this would be EASY nor SIMPLE.

But we definitely need to look into finding something DIFFERENT than what we've been stuck in. Whether it's a hybrid system or all-new, governmental INVESTMENT in the COLLECTIVE that makes up a society and a move away from individualism is what is necessary in the coming wave of automation.

So, basically the opposite approach than what the US is taking now (the destruction of ALL social programs), and more similar to what China has done to allow its rise in the World's economic stage (despite all the authoritarian crap that accompanied it).

That will never happen. People have free will and you will never be able to convince anyone to give up their autonomy. Neither the government nor any other person in this universe will convince anyone to give up their free will. The current social programs in the US are designed to make people completely dependent upon the government for their continued existence, which is completely against their humanity and dignity.

 

[johnsawyercjs]

Ayn Rand, one of the darlings of many Trump followers, is rolling over in her grave at this attempt by the Trump administration to manipulate business.

 

[frownface]

with a 145% tariff at the time; i'm surrpised it didn't drop 100%

 

[Darth Tulhu]

That will never happen. People have free will and you will never be able to convince anyone to give up their autonomy. Neither the government nor any other person in this universe will convince anyone to give up their free will. The current social programs in the US are designed to make people completely dependent upon the government for their continued existence, which is completely against their humanity and dignity.

We Apple users live in a "walled garden". Living in such a society does not necessarily preclude others to live on their own, and farm, fish, or raise cattle. But many in a society might like the benefits of having droids do all the work if the society is set up where the "tide raises all ships" via education and other "socialist" infrastructure upgrades.

Entrepreneurship, self-employment, invention, and self-reliance (free will) are not eliminated in these scenarios, as I'm not talking about a totalitarian regime.

 

[simply258]

Apple probably has a lot of stock in the US, in addition demand is lower due to the next iPhones a few months away.

 

[jfreedle2]

We Apple users live in a "walled garden". Living in such a society does not necessarily preclude others to live on their own, and farm, fish, or raise cattle. But many in a society might like the benefits of having droids do all the work if the society is set up where the "tide raises all ships" via education and other "socialist" infrastructure upgrades.

Entrepreneurship, self-employment, invention, and self-reliance (free will) are not eliminated in these scenarios, as I'm not talking about a totalitarian regime.

Ultimately a totalitarian regime is what socialism and communism devolves into due to the philosophical decisions about those economic systems. Put simply, they have never worked, do not work, and will never work.
Ultimately you will see that certain jobs are eliminated through automation while new jobs will crop up to replace those jobs. This is the way of things. It is rare that people make clothes by hand today where it was commonplace many years ago. Moving assembly to automation just makes more sense.

 

[Darth Tulhu]

Ultimately a totalitarian regime is what socialism and communism devolves into due to the philosophical decisions about those economic systems. Put simply, they have never worked, do not work, and will never work.

Tell that to China and Singapore; their economies are enviable. The notion that socialism will INEVITABLY devolve into totalitarianism is a gross over-simplification. For example, universal healthcare, Social Security, and free universities are "socialist" policies.

Ultimately you will see that certain jobs are eliminated through automation while new jobs will crop up to replace those jobs. This is the way of things. It is rare that people make clothes by hand today where it was commonplace many years ago. Moving assembly to automation just makes more sense.

I agree. Which is why the government should take the lead in investing in its own population via education and other so-called "socialist" initiatives.

 

[jfreedle2]

Tell that to China and Singapore; their economies are enviable. The notion that socialism will INEVITABLY devolve into totalitarianism is a gross over-simplification. For example, universal healthcare, Social Security, and free universities are "socialist" policies.

Actually no. Most people if getting paid to do a job or enjoy vacation or play games, would choose to not work. Therefore productivity dies and the government has to enforce people to work in order for society to work. China has increased productivity by introducing free market capitalism into their economy. And they all do not work, which is why we have a lot of foreign students coming to the United States for education.

I agree. Which is why the government should take the lead in investing in its own population via education and other so-called "socialist" initiatives.

No, the government should never get involved. The government has two roles and two roles only. To coordinate with other governments on behalf of the will of the citizens for trade and business opportunities. The other role is to provide for the common defense. The government should be out of the way and allow free market capitalism to advance the needs of society. This is the only way in which progress will happen. Free Market Capitalism is not about greed at all and is not the goal.

 

[Mousse]

No, the government should never get involved. The government has two roles and two roles only. To coordinate with other governments on behalf of the will of the citizens for trade and business opportunities. The other role is to provide for the common defense.

Narp. A government's only task is to take care of its citizens.

The government should be out of the way and allow free market capitalism to advance the needs of society. This is the only way in which progress will happen.

That explains why we, Americans, have the worst healthcare of any developed nation, unless you're filthy rich. Every other developed nation has universal healthcare of one kind or another. Most of their citizens don't mind paying taxes, because they get something in return, eg. healthcare, labor laws that protects the workers.
The only thing we, the American people, get is welfare for the rich and torment of black/brown people. Geez, wonder why I hate paying taxes.😑

Free Market Capitalism is not about greed at all and is not the goal.

The only goal of capitalism is to make money. Any benefit we get is collateral.

 

[BaldiMac]

No, the government should never get involved. The government has two roles and two roles only. To coordinate with other governments on behalf of the will of the citizens for trade and business opportunities. The other role is to provide for the common defense. The government should be out of the way and allow free market capitalism to advance the needs of society. This is the only way in which progress will happen. Free Market Capitalism is not about greed at all and is not the goal.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised in today's political environment that there are people like you who believe that we should abandon the rule of law in favor of survival of the fittest.

 

[Dutch60]

Narp. A government's only task is to take care of its citizens.

That explains why we, Americans, have the worst healthcare of any developed nation, unless you're filthy rich. Every other developed nation has universal healthcare of one kind or another. Most of their citizens don't mind paying taxes, because they get something in return, eg. healthcare, labor laws that protects the workers.
The only thing we, the American people, get is welfare for the rich and torment of black/brown people. Geez, wonder why I hate paying taxes.😑

The only goal of capitalism is to make money. Any benefit we get is collateral.

Caveat: I’m no expert and just thinking out loud. If you don’t agree, please explain (not specifically to you, Mousse, but in general).

“A Big Beautiful Bill”…..
Lowering taxes and cutting federal expenses.
I think this one just passed the House of Representatives (?).
I think I know who will benefit from this (rich) and who will pay for it (less rich and poor). I also think this will do no good to the budget deficit.
More unrest in financial markets and less interest in government bonds. That will not do American economy any good. On the contrary, I think.
I’m no expert at all, but doesn’t this sound logical?
Maybe the Senate can and will do something to block it, but this “Big Beautiful Bill” shows exactly what Trump politics are about.

 

[It’s always something]

The only goal of capitalism is to make money.

Yes, and that is why making capitalism the organizing principle of society leads to grave evils: it makes the evil of greed into a “virtue”.

 

[jfreedle2]

Narp. A government's only task is to take care of its citizens.

I do not need nor want the government to take care of me. That is my job.

That explains why we, Americans, have the worst healthcare of any developed nation, unless you're filthy rich. Every other developed nation has universal healthcare of one kind or another. Most of their citizens don't mind paying taxes, because they get something in return, eg. healthcare, labor laws that protects the workers.
The only thing we, the American people, get is welfare for the rich and torment of black/brown people. Geez, wonder why I hate paying taxes.😑

We actually have the best healthcare. Universal Healthcare results in people not needed essential treatments or you will die before receiving treatment. This is why people with Universal Healthcare systems come to the United States to get treatments that they cannot get under Universal Healthcare systems. The rest of your point is just made up by the press.

The only goal of capitalism is to make money. Any benefit we get is collateral.

Nope, that is greed and has nothing to do with Capitalism. Capitalism is about freedom from tyranny.

 

[jfreedle2]

I guess I shouldn't be surprised in today's political environment that there are people like you who believe that we should abandon the rule of law in favor of survival of the fittest.

No, I do not. The Rule of Law was handed down by God and should not be abandoned.

 

[jfreedle2]

Yes, and that is why making capitalism the organizing principle of society leads to grave evils: it makes the evil of greed into a “virtue”.

Actually that is socialism or communism that results in absolute greed.

 

[jfreedle2]

Caveat: I’m no expert and just thinking out loud. If you don’t agree, please explain (not specifically to you, Mousse, but in general).

“A Big Beautiful Bill”…..
Lowering taxes and cutting federal expenses.
I think this one just passed the House of Representatives (?).
I think I know who will benefit from this (rich) and who will pay for it (less rich and poor). I also think this will do no good to the budget deficit.
More unrest in financial markets and less interest in government bonds. That will not do American economy any good. On the contrary, I think.
I’m no expert at all, but doesn’t this sound logical?
Maybe the Senate can and will do something to block it, but this “Big Beautiful Bill” shows exactly what Trump politics are about.

The rich wished they would only pay their fair share. If everyone paid the same it would be very different rather than have the top 1% paying 90% of the taxes.

 

[delsoul]

My “Made in Vietnam” MacBook Air is just as good, if not better, than any chinese made MacBook I’ve had in the past. All the benefits without all of the political nonsense attached to it. Glad to see Apple shifting towards India and Vietnam, while shifting away from CCP China.

 

[It’s always something]

Actually that is socialism or communism that results in absolute greed.

Actually, capitalism does it. Capitalism as a principle of social organization is inherently greed-oriented. There’s no way to excuse the morally abominable accumulation of hundreds of billions of dollars while others starve to death, but capitalism makes it into a virtue and blames the starving man for his “moral failing” of “not working hard enough.”

 

[jfreedle2]

Actually, capitalism does it. Capitalism as a principle of social organization is inherently greed-oriented. There’s no way to excuse the morally abominable accumulation of hundreds of billions of dollars while others starve to death, but capitalism makes it into a virtue and blames the starving man for his “moral failing” of “not working hard enough.”

That is completely and utterly false. That is the lie that Karl Marx told to dupe people.

 

[It’s always something]

That is completely and utterly false. That is the lie that Karl Marx told to dupe people.

It is 100% fact, and merely tossing Marx into the middle of it doesn’t change a thing. That’s called “poisoning the well,” and it’s not a substitute for an argument.

But to try and steer this back on topic: Trump’s tariffs are directly responsible for this at least in part if not entirely. Apple is moving production to India in an effort to minimize tariff exposure (wait, I thought foreign countries paid them? 🙄), and they front-loaded shipments to beat the tariffs as much as possible. The two taken together result in low shipments. Any negatives associated with this are therefore Trump’s fault.