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It is 100% fact, and merely tossing Marx into the middle of it doesn’t change a thing. That’s called “poisoning the well,” and it’s not a substitute for an argument.
And yet you have not make a solid argument yourself. The fact is socialism and communism is nothing but a complete failure waiting to happen. That is why China started to migrate to capitalism in order to not have the subjects to die of starvation. This is why the Soviet Union collapsed due to the ramped corruption that happens in communism. You know that the only way forward is capitalism. Thank you for accepting and agreeing to this fact.
 
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Thank you for accepting and agreeing to this fact.
China doesn’t care about starvation: witness the Cultural Revolution. The Soviet Union collapsed because it lacked the moral foundations to counter Pope John Paul II and the economic foundations to compete with Reagan’s arm race. Corruption had very little to do with it, or we’d expect the same to happen with Putin and his gang of crony capitalist friends already.

Aside from these, however, which are really beside the point, a better example of what is possible can be found in Europe, where societies are founded more closely upon what is best for human beings and not what is best for any corporation’s profits.

But we will continue down the path to crony capitalism ourselves with Trump, as he makes sweetheart tariff deals for his friends (his friends being those who open their wallets) and punishes those who think a better way is possible than a society based upon greed. We won’t see factories built as a result of the tariffs; we won’t see a better standard of living. It’s not China that is our enemy nearly so much as we ourselves are.
 
It is 100% fact, and merely tossing Marx into the middle of it doesn’t change a thing. That’s called “poisoning the well,” and it’s not a substitute for an argument.

But to try and steer this back on topic: Trump’s tariffs are directly responsible for this at least in part if not entirely. Apple is moving production to India in an effort to minimize tariff exposure (wait, I thought foreign countries paid them? 🙄), and they front-loaded shipments to beat the tariffs as much as possible. The two taken together result in low shipments. Any negatives associated with this are therefore Trump’s fault.

He’s been in office barely over 100 days. Pretty sure my made in Vietnam Apple products were made before that. You know, when orange man wasn’t in office. Let’s be real here, Apple is leaving China behind because the CCP couldn’t get their head out of their rear during COVID with the severe lockdowns and proven that the supply chain reliance on China can’t be depended on. I know it’s cool, hip, and trendy to blame the orange man for everything but let’s just rest on the facts here.
 
China doesn’t care about starvation: witness the Cultural Revolution. The Soviet Union collapsed because it lacked the moral foundations to counter Pope John Paul II and the economic foundations to compete with Reagan’s arm race. Corruption had very little to do with it, or we’d expect the same to happen with Putin and his gang of crony capitalist friends already.

Aside from these, however, which are really beside the point, a better example of what is possible can be found in Europe, where societies are founded more closely upon what is best for human beings and not what is best for any corporation’s profits.

But we will continue down the path to crony capitalism ourselves with Trump, as he makes sweetheart tariff deals for his friends (his friends being those who open their wallets) and punishes those who think a better way is possible than a society based upon greed. We won’t see factories built as a result of the tariffs; we won’t see a better standard of living. It’s not China that is our enemy nearly so much as we ourselves are.
History tells a different story.
 
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He’s been in office barely over 100 days. Pretty sure my made in Vietnam Apple products were made before that. You know, when orange man wasn’t in office. Let’s be real here, Apple is leaving China behind because the CCP couldn’t get their head out of their rear during COVID with the severe lockdowns and proven that the supply chain reliance on China can’t be depended on. I know it’s cool, hip, and trendy to blame the orange man for everything but let’s just rest on the facts here.
You know, I have never seen an orange man. It must be on a video game somewhere.
 
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Fascist, Orange man, etc are all the hip edgy lingo lately. I’m trying to fit in with the crowd so I’m not a square 😂
The funny thing about fitting in is that you need to be sure that they are the ones that you want to fit in with. 😁
 
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Who creates and enforces the law in your fantasy world? Since you were clear that government should have no part in that.
It is not a fantasy world, it is reality. God created the law. If you follow God, then there is no need to have enforcers of the law.
 
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It is not a fantasy world, it is reality. God created the law. If you follow God, then there is no need to have enforcers of the law.
And yet God says that every person should be subject to their government. And the governments authority comes from God.
 
And yet God says that every person should be subject to their government. And the governments authority comes from God.
And yet governments are to be subject to God and follow God’s law not some made up fantasy that does not match reality. The US government is chartered to be subject to the citizens and not the government controlling the citizens.
 
God? Which God? Whose God? What religion? What personal beliefs? Etc. Etc.
I don't think bringing in religious beliefs is a good idea for any discussion.
Too much believing and too little facts.
Everyone is right and everyone is wrong….you believe what you want without imposing anything or judging anyone based on religion.
 
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And yet governments are to be subject to God and follow God’s law not some made up fantasy that does not match reality. The US government is chartered to be subject to the citizens and not the government controlling the citizens.
I agree. However the governments authority to do things other than the two functions you claim also comes from God. How do you justify placing a limit on God's authority? Why would you reject the government's authority to act for the common good?
 
I agree. However the governments authority to do things other than the two functions you claim also comes from God. How do you justify placing a limit on God's authority? Why would you reject the government's authority to act for the common good?
Too often the government is pushing immoral (thus violating God's law) ideas because they see it as for the common good, even though it is not. This is not limiting God's authority, but limiting the overreach of the government. We do not want the government so powerful that you end up with 1984 style society. This is where socialism and communism will ultimately become. There are aspects of the government that do not fall in these two categories that are good, and there are many that are against the common good. Welfare is a prime example. What it is portrayed to be is to help people out of poverty. However the implementation is such that it keeps people in poverty and solely dependent upon the government. If someone receiving welfare gets a job that does not fully pay for their needs, then they lose all assistance. What I have seen with government, it is often very wasteful of tax payer funding and often creating excessive bureaucracy to employ their friends. This very corruption needs to be put to an end and those responsible charged appropriately.
Those two categories are primarily for the federal government. You have state and local governments that have more responsibility than these two categories. This is how the government of the United States was setup. There were aspects that needed fine tuning in the case of cross state criminal behavior. No person has the permissions to violate the rights (endowed by God) of another. Because others may have a different point of view does not mean that I should adopt or give credence to their point of view. There is truth and it is absolute and it was given to us by God.
 
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It is not a fantasy world, it is reality. God created the law. If you follow God, then there is no need to have enforcers of the law.
I'm assuming your god is the Judeo-Christian god, not some has been god like Apophis or Ra. Yahweh had multiple laws requiring those with resources not horde it all and to help the less fortunate. Mitzvot (commandments) 26-52 of God's Law tells us to treat the poor and foreigners with compassion. 184-202 of God's Law tell us to treat your worker fairly.
Jesus had 2 commandments, the second being to treat everyone with decency and humanity.
 
Too often the government is pushing immoral (thus violating God's law) ideas because they see it as for the common good, even though it is not. This is not limiting God's authority, but limiting the overreach of the government. We do not want the government so powerful that you end up with 1984 style society. This is where socialism and communism will ultimately become. There are aspects of the government that do not fall in these two categories that are good, and there are many that are against the common good. Welfare is a prime example. What it is portrayed to be is to help people out of poverty. However the implementation is such that it keeps people in poverty and solely dependent upon the government. If someone receiving welfare gets a job that does not fully pay for their needs, then they lose all assistance. What I have seen with government, it is often very wasteful of tax payer funding and often creating excessive bureaucracy to employ their friends. This very corruption needs to be put to an end and those responsible charged appropriately.
This is all black and white nonsense. The real world has nuance. Rarely is anything always bad or always good. Despite your repeated rants about socialism, we recognize the value in socialized industries like firefighting or national defense.

Those two categories are primarily for the federal government. You have state and local governments that have more responsibility than these two categories.
Ahh. So you now realize you were wrong to say that government only has two functions, so you are moving the goalposts.

This is how the government of the United States was setup. There were aspects that needed fine tuning in the case of cross state criminal behavior. No person has the permissions to violate the rights (endowed by God) of another. Because others may have a different point of view does not mean that I should adopt or give credence to their point of view. There is truth and it is absolute and it was given to us by God.
And now you admit that government can appropriately create and enforce laws to protect the rights of its citizens.
 
This is all black and white nonsense. The real world has nuance. Rarely is anything always bad or always good. Despite your repeated rants about socialism, we recognize the value in socialized industries like firefighting or national defense.


Ahh. So you now realize you were wrong to say that government only has two functions, so you are moving the goalposts.


And now you admit that government can appropriately create and enforce laws to protect the rights of its citizens.
Socialism and Communism is always evil and should be eliminated.
Federal Government should be shrunk and stay in their lane.
Governments do create immoral laws that must not be obeyed.
 
I'm assuming your god is the Judeo-Christian god, not some has been god like Apophis or Ra. Yahweh had multiple laws requiring those with resources not horde it all and to help the less fortunate. Mitzvot (commandments) 26-52 of God's Law tells us to treat the poor and foreigners with compassion. 184-202 of God's Law tell us to treat your worker fairly.
Jesus had 2 commandments, the second being to treat everyone with decency and humanity.
Yes. We should not allow the government to provide this. It was always ment for us to do this directly, not through the inefficient government.
 
God? Which God? Whose God? What religion? What personal beliefs? Etc. Etc.
I don't think bringing in religious beliefs is a good idea for any discussion.
Too much believing and too little facts.
Everyone is right and everyone is wrong….you believe what you want without imposing anything or judging anyone based on religion.
Taking God out of the equation has been the major problem with a lot of things that we have today. There is only one God.
 
Socialism and Communism is always evil and should be eliminated.
Federal Government should be shrunk and stay in their lane.
Governments do create immoral laws that must not be obeyed.
So... my city fire departments are evil and slavery should have been left to the states? I think most rational people disagree with those positions.
 
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And yet governments are to be subject to God and follow God’s law...
Yes. We should not allow the government to provide this. It was always ment for us to do this directly, not through the inefficient government.
The Government should follow God's law, part of which is to care for its people. Yet we shouldn't allow the Government to care for the people? What's the point of a government following God's law if we shouldn't allow the Government to follow God's law?

The only way I can think of where the Government would follow God's law and not care for its citizens is if it follows the laws that allows us to discriminate against other. Discriminate against gays (Leviticus 18:22), clean shaven men😙 (Leviticus 19:27), tattoos (Leviticus 19:28), cross dressing (Deuteronomy 22:5) and so on. Most of those laws were so that the people of God could distinguish each other from pagans. Jesus did away with most of those when he allowed the pagans to be part of God's people. You can tell who's God's people by their action, not how they look.(John 13:35)

If you want to adhere to those laws, you fail to understand Jesus' teaching of love. Jesus spent half his time helping out the poor and marginalized. Jesus' disciples are communist.(Acts 2:42-45)
 
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The Government should follow God's law, part of which is to care for its people. Yet we shouldn't allow the Government to care for the people? What's the point of a government following God's law if we shouldn't allow the Government to follow God's law?

The only way I can think of where the Government would follow God's law and not care for its citizens is if it follows the laws that allows us to discriminate against other. Discriminate against gays (Leviticus 18:22), clean shaven men😙 (Leviticus 19:27), tattoos (Leviticus 19:28), cross dressing (Deuteronomy 22:5) and so on. Most of those laws were so that the people of God could distinguish each other from pagans. Jesus did away with most of those when he allowed the pagans to be part of God's people. You can tell who's God's people by their action, not how they look.(John 13:35)

If you want to adhere to those laws, you fail to understand Jesus' teaching of love. Jesus spent half his time helping out the poor and marginalized. Jesus' disciples are communist.(Acts 2:42-45)
You really have no clue about that which you speak. You do not understand Jesus's teachings and it shows and you do not understand that Communism has NEVER worked, and WILL NEVER work. Even Satan can quote scripture to support immoral activities.
 
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