I’ve never had them say “here’s your new device,” and I’ve had at least 5 or 6 replacements over the years. The only thing they’ve ever said is that they were giving me a replacement instead of repairing. Maybe a training issue at some locations?
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Class Action Lawsuit Against Apple for Offering Refurbished Replacement Devices Under AppleCare Moves Forward
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What is Apple thinking? Exactly as spelled out in the terms and conditions of their warranty. The real question should be, what are YOU thinking?
I can provide an anecdote. This is from a friend who used to work in electronics retailing and for awhile in electronics manufacturing (liquid crystal 3D glasses for the Amiga). He said that a company with a good quality assurance program is not checking every single device other than a cursory check to make sure it boots. They use statistical process control to conduct a thorough check of randomly selected finished goods: booting it up, setting it up, checking all the I/O, etc.
In contrast, a refurbished device has been diagnosed and, after refurbishing, is thoroughly checked before re-entering the retail stream.
I remember mentioning in another forum that I wouldn't be surprised if this was happening, and somebody ridiculed me for thinking that it's even remotely possible. Now, here we are.
Uh - directly from Apple? - I have bought refurbs directly from Apple for over 14 years and I have never had any issues like that - Apple will give you basically a new device with a new battery and outer shell and the same warranty as the new device.
As someone who worked for them for 14 years, you will all be very disappointed if you knew what these replacement units really are and how they are made. The comments on here of everyone stating they know things for certain is quite amusing. I have been to where they "refurb" them. It is the same facility they receive all the "defective" units. What you think they are doing to create a refurb or test a refurb is misguided and not even close. They even train employees at store level and ont he phone to never use the word "new". Bottom line, Your replacement unit is a crapshoot. You could get a decent one or a crappy one. Remember this, it is made from parts from other defective devices. They do not test all components. They rebuild the best they can and do a boot. If it boots its good to go. I never purchased their Applecare while working there either . Ripoff.
That makes sense to me, logistically. Evidently you'd prefer that returns be shipped to some other facility first. Is there a reason you believe this logistical decision implicates the refurbishment process?
I have a feeling I'm being trolled, but then I've never really got the hang of how casually people use language in forums like these. Do you really mean to say that refurbished products are made from defective devices? That assertion is false on it's face. If you're saying that faulty parts in a returned unit are replaced by fully functional parts from other returned units ... well again, OK -- and what is the problem with that?
I know hyperbole is king in comments sections, but a crapshoot? Do you realize that you're saying a refurbished Apple unit is more likely to fail again than it is to function properly? Maybe you didn't mean that. Maybe you meant it was exactly 50:50? Or to be generous you meant to say that Apple refurbs ave a return rate of -- what, you tell us, since you've "been to where they refurb them" -- is the return rate "only" 40%? 30% 20% Do any of those rates of return seem remotely plausible to you?
Me either.
As for store employees being trained to describe them as "new" -- I don't buy refurbished equipment at retail Apple Stores. (Does anyone?) I guess you're saying that a certain number of refurbished devices are shipped to retail stores so the store can use them for an instant in-store replacement. I didn't know that. I know Apple has a reputation for nearly miraculous supply chain management, but the likelihood that they'll ship a refurb with exactly the right specs to exactly the right retail store to facilitate the in-store immediate replacement of a future, specs-unknown return seems remote. Again, anecdotally (and as some others have offered above), my son has had an iPhone and a MacBook that he bought at an Apple retail store replaced. In both cases, the replaced equipment was in new packaging.
They're bragging about in their ads now "100% recycled". What's the difference?
That being said I've gotten refurbs and they may as well be new. If it's refurbished didn't it go through quality control twice?
As far as Applecare being a rip off - I can give you about 5 incidents where it more than paid for itself and especially so regarding a very expensive Mac.
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Did you call Apple and they replaced it, or did you file a lawsuit?
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Heck, if they really cared, they wouldn't manufacture anything at all! And if I really cared I wouldn't produce CO2 reading and replying to your post! In fact, I'm logging off, shutting down, and holding my breath through my next scheduled self-flagellation session, though I'll probably miss it without my iPhone to remind me.
Eh... The whole "let's throw our hands up in the air! everything is black and white" mentality ... well it doesn't always jive with me. Don't see how it's pertinent. ... But eh it was kinda funny, the reminder and self-flaggilation thing haha. And the smiley so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
OK, kudos for an actual good question. I don't know the reason for that. They really could in terms of the units themselves as far as I can see, as the only difference anyone can tell is the packaging. There may be some other reasons recently brought up (see below).
Ahh, OK. But, I think in that case, the germs on your phone might be the least of your worries. And, why, exactly would the phone even be out of our pocket in the men's room around a pee tub? Inquiring minds and all.
I had that happen as well (with my MBP), especially in the early days of the Apple stores. I'm guessing it is at their discretion, depending on whether they think it is something they can easily/reasonably fix, along with the situation and importance of the customer, etc. (ex. When I was on business work for a Fortune 100 just down the street from an Apple store, I got treated a bit better in terms of ease of replacement than when I was there on personal business.)
My hunch, is that the policies and customer satisfaction aren't as important these days as they once were.
Hypothetically (as I'm not really interested in an iPhone 11 in the first place!), yeah I'd be fine with that. As I mentioned, when I have the option of new or a refurb, I buy the refurb. I've just had better luck that way in getting problem-free devices.
Hmm, fair point. That might be the first actual one I've seen on this thread. I'll have to take that into consideration next time I but a refurb, though that is more an issue when considering the initial purchase, as if you're getting one to replace your defective one, it could have more/less wear on the SSD.
I'll probably keep going with refurbs though, as SSDs seem to well outlast the usefulness of the device in my experience so far, so I'd rather have the increased reliability chances of the refurb (and the money savings).
I see a few examples have been given, but I'd add that these match my experience. I go refurb, because of the dozens of devices I've purchased since I discovered the refurb option, the refurbs have had a lower flaky-rate. I don't mind so much if a device has an outright issues, but flaky is just a pain to diagnose and get fixed/replaced.
My assumption is that the pre-use and then refurb process tends to weed out most of the flaky units, whereas when you get one new, they have a very small amount of actual testing.
Well, for any kind of company producing a product, it won't be all or none. You can't advance and produce things while being 100% environmentally pure (if that should even be a goal). So, tradeoffs. I'm happy Apple is making *some* tradeoffs. Certainly more than other companies... or the companies who just do tons of damage without giving a care at all.
That said, there is just *way* too much virtue signaling going on these days, so such efforts seem to be divided between actual care for the environment and marketing department.
I think I'm going with the trolling thesis too. It certainly doesn't match any of my experiences of the outcome of such processes.
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OK, kudos for an actual good question. I don't know the reason for that. They really could in terms of the units themselves as far as I can see, as the only difference anyone can tell is the packaging. There may be some other reasons recently brought up (see below).
Ahh, OK. But, I think in that case, the germs on your phone might be the least of your worries. And, why, exactly would the phone even be out of our pocket in the men's room around a pee tub? Inquiring minds and all.
I had that happen as well (with my MBP), especially in the early days of the Apple stores. I'm guessing it is at their discretion, depending on whether they think it is something they can easily/reasonably fix, along with the situation and importance of the customer, etc. (ex. When I was on business work for a Fortune 100 just down the street from an Apple store, I got treated a bit better in terms of ease of replacement than when I was there on personal business.)
My hunch, is that the policies and customer satisfaction aren't as important these days as they once were.
Hypothetically (as I'm not really interested in an iPhone 11 in the first place!), yeah I'd be fine with that. As I mentioned, when I have the option of new or a refurb, I buy the refurb. I've just had better luck that way in getting problem-free devices.
Hmm, fair point. That might be the first actual one I've seen on this thread. I'll have to take that into consideration next time I but a refurb, though that is more an issue when considering the initial purchase, as if you're getting one to replace your defective one, it could have more/less wear on the SSD.
I'll probably keep going with refurbs though, as SSDs seem to well outlast the usefulness of the device in my experience so far, so I'd rather have the increased reliability chances of the refurb (and the money savings).
I see a few examples have been given, but I'd add that these match my experience. I go refurb, because of the dozens of devices I've purchased since I discovered the refurb option, the refurbs have had a lower flaky-rate. I don't mind so much if a device has an outright issues, but flaky is just a pain to diagnose and get fixed/replaced.
My assumption is that the pre-use and then refurb process tends to weed out most of the flaky units, whereas when you get one new, they have a very small amount of actual testing.
Well, for any kind of company producing a product, it won't be all or none. You can't advance and produce things while being 100% environmentally pure (if that should even be a goal). So, tradeoffs. I'm happy Apple is making *some* tradeoffs. Certainly more than other companies... or the companies who just do tons of damage without giving a care at all.
That said, there is just *way* too much virtue signaling going on these days, so such efforts seem to be divided between actual care for the environment and marketing department.
I think I'm going with the trolling thesis too. It certainly doesn't match any of my experiences of the outcome of such processes.
Not trolling. I had 3 bad experiences. You had good ones. Its a crapshoot with refurbs. I saw much more behind the scenes. It was eye opening.
I don't doubt the bad experiences. It's the 'behinds the scenes' aspects I'm doubting. Also, curious if your 3 experiences were ordering refurbs from the Apple site, or getting them some other way. That seems to be a key factor so far, just reading through this thread.
That's fine, though. The point I'm trying to make is more in regard to refurb vs new. It would make sense to centralize the process. And, why wouldn't you re-use the good parts?
doesn't Apple say "as new" that''s not the same as "brand new"
https://www.apple.com/au/support/products/iphone/
"Apple provides as part of the repair or replacement service may be new or equivalent to new in both performance and reliability. Service coverage may be subject to certain restrictions. Same-day service availability and options may vary by region and iPhone model. For international service, Apple may repair or replace your iPhone and iPhone parts with a comparable iPhone model or parts that comply with local standards. Service coverage is subject to the AppleCare+ terms and conditions."
https://www.apple.com/au/support/products/iphone/
"Apple provides as part of the repair or replacement service may be new or equivalent to new in both performance and reliability. Service coverage may be subject to certain restrictions. Same-day service availability and options may vary by region and iPhone model. For international service, Apple may repair or replace your iPhone and iPhone parts with a comparable iPhone model or parts that comply with local standards. Service coverage is subject to the AppleCare+ terms and conditions."
I've purchased Apple Refurbished products before and there is absolutely no way of telling that they're not new except for the serial number.
possibly. i've had them tell it was a "new" device literally every time i've had a replacement. probably 6 times. the last time i pushed back as i knew that a white box is a refurb, as i work in repairs but want them to stand by their warranties, and it nearly caused an episode. a manager was called over to reassure me that the replacement device was indeed new and not refurbished.