Hankster
macrumors 68020
Yeah, but PhotoShop 7 can't be installed on OS X 🙁 So, unless I purchase and downgrade to Tiger I can just buy the upgrade to CS 🙁 Maybe if I wish hard enough I'll get CS for my birthday which is coming up 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀
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Classic Environment - Leopard
- Thread starter davejm123
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Yeah, but PhotoShop 7 can't be installed on OS X 🙁 So, unless I purchase and downgrade to Tiger I can just buy the upgrade to CS 🙁 Maybe if I wish hard enough I'll get CS for my birthday which is coming up 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀
IJ Reilly
macrumors P6
The last time I spoke with Adobe about a similar issue, they seemed quite flexible. I had a copy of Photoshop with no serial number (came installed on a used Mac, along with the manuals and discs), but they were willing to accept other proof that my copy was legit.
Incidentally, if you think Photoshop 7.0 is old, get this: I still run 5.0 (in Classic)! When I upgrade to Leopard I'll probably buy Elements instead of upgrading Photoshop.
slu
macrumors 68000
Again, call Adobe. Others have been successful doing this. Or try GIMP. If you don't at least try one of these solutions, then I have no sympathy.
Hankster
macrumors 68020
I still have the 4.0 disc and use 6.0 on one of my PC desktops 🙂 You can't go wrong with old school versions!!!
SheepShaver
If you want to use PS7 under Leopard you can try "SheepShaver" it is a free classic mac os emulator. You can find all you need here:
http://www.redundantrobot.com
I hope this is usefull, thought I don't know how fast it will work, not being native, of cource.
If you want to use PS7 under Leopard you can try "SheepShaver" it is a free classic mac os emulator. You can find all you need here:
http://www.redundantrobot.com
I hope this is usefull, thought I don't know how fast it will work, not being native, of cource.
GimmeSlack12
macrumors 603
SheepShaver is faster than any "native" machine you could have used OS 9 on (at least from my experience). I collected all of the stuff on Redundant for quite a while before finally putting together that tutorial. Now I know I should get more SheepShaver specific stuff up on that page, but really the goal is the same with the Basilisk information. That is to get a bootable image working (which I think I provided one anyway).
Smartcom5
macrumors newbie
Really ?
I highly doupt that.
SheepShaver is an emulator, where the 'Classic Environment' is an virtualization.
So, due to technical facts, an emulation can never be as fast, faster or more efficient than a virtualization, not to mention a native solution [Mac OS 9 itself].
Do you really believe, that SheepShaver on any [surely faster] MacIntel will runs a lot faster than the most extended PPC ?
The fastest Mac that can run Mac OS 9 native was the MDD with at least a 1,25 GHz dual-cpu, aside from all the cpu-upgrades [1,8 GHz Dual, 2 GHz e.g.] that boost a G4 to levels of the first CoreDuo-MacIntel's.
And don't forget the 7448' chips that has a huge increase of performance too.
It's impossible that a PPC-Mac that runs Mac OS 9 natively will run it slower than a Intel chip that has to emulate the whole computer.
We don't talk about the virtualization of Mac OS 9 within the Classic Environment.
But, back to topic
I'm also interested in a Classic Environment within Leopard, that's why i found this topic. 🙂
As i figured out, and already assumed - Apple has just dropped off the files who are needed to run classic programs out of Leopard - as they used to do so more than once.
I've found, that they dropped out the prefspane tab "Classic", the underlaying core services and so on.
So i'd copied the relating files back from my Tiger installation and after a few further fixes i got my all-time loved prefs-pane "Classic" back in the system settings.
The only thing is, that i had to start classic manually from the underlaying process while the system settings program always crashes if i tried to start Classic from this tab.
I got it to work [surely on my G5, due to "Classic" is an virtualization and no emulator], started SimCity 2000 [a old but lovin' Mac OS Classic game], but it crashes after a while as i tried to save the game.
I suppose it depends on the Open-/Save-dialogue that SimCity 2000 tries to access/use.
So, it is still possible - i will need more time to figure out something more about but it still works. 🙂
I hit on it [but still suppose it always] as i re-set the termal-calibration on my G5 after a cpu-change [G5 1,6 GHz Single → 1,8 GHz Single, it works ! 😀].
As you eventually know, the "Apple Service Diagnostics" [OF] is used to check the Mac's [also the G5] on failures.
As i saw the window styles, i immediately thought "Yea man, that are the old QuickDraw routines the classical Mac OS used to use and is famous for !".
So i tried to disassemble the volume the ASD programs based on - and i found a classical system - what a surprise. 😉
That just totally confirmed my suspicion that the G5 can actually run the classical system.
I virtually knew it the whole time - that Apple has just stripped of or modified the OpenFirmware of the G5, so that it won't be Apple to run Mac OS 9 - for marketing causes.
That's what i found out, what's on you ? 😀
For reading:
Wikipedia - Rosetta
Wikipedia - Virtualization
Wikipedia - Emulation
In this sense
Smartcom
I highly doupt that.
SheepShaver is an emulator, where the 'Classic Environment' is an virtualization.
So, due to technical facts, an emulation can never be as fast, faster or more efficient than a virtualization, not to mention a native solution [Mac OS 9 itself].
Do you really believe, that SheepShaver on any [surely faster] MacIntel will runs a lot faster than the most extended PPC ?
The fastest Mac that can run Mac OS 9 native was the MDD with at least a 1,25 GHz dual-cpu, aside from all the cpu-upgrades [1,8 GHz Dual, 2 GHz e.g.] that boost a G4 to levels of the first CoreDuo-MacIntel's.
And don't forget the 7448' chips that has a huge increase of performance too.
It's impossible that a PPC-Mac that runs Mac OS 9 natively will run it slower than a Intel chip that has to emulate the whole computer.
We don't talk about the virtualization of Mac OS 9 within the Classic Environment.
But, back to topic
I'm also interested in a Classic Environment within Leopard, that's why i found this topic. 🙂
As i figured out, and already assumed - Apple has just dropped off the files who are needed to run classic programs out of Leopard - as they used to do so more than once.
I've found, that they dropped out the prefspane tab "Classic", the underlaying core services and so on.
So i'd copied the relating files back from my Tiger installation and after a few further fixes i got my all-time loved prefs-pane "Classic" back in the system settings.
The only thing is, that i had to start classic manually from the underlaying process while the system settings program always crashes if i tried to start Classic from this tab.
I got it to work [surely on my G5, due to "Classic" is an virtualization and no emulator], started SimCity 2000 [a old but lovin' Mac OS Classic game], but it crashes after a while as i tried to save the game.
I suppose it depends on the Open-/Save-dialogue that SimCity 2000 tries to access/use.
So, it is still possible - i will need more time to figure out something more about but it still works. 🙂
I hit on it [but still suppose it always] as i re-set the termal-calibration on my G5 after a cpu-change [G5 1,6 GHz Single → 1,8 GHz Single, it works ! 😀].
As you eventually know, the "Apple Service Diagnostics" [OF] is used to check the Mac's [also the G5] on failures.
As i saw the window styles, i immediately thought "Yea man, that are the old QuickDraw routines the classical Mac OS used to use and is famous for !".
So i tried to disassemble the volume the ASD programs based on - and i found a classical system - what a surprise. 😉
That just totally confirmed my suspicion that the G5 can actually run the classical system.
I virtually knew it the whole time - that Apple has just stripped of or modified the OpenFirmware of the G5, so that it won't be Apple to run Mac OS 9 - for marketing causes.
That's what i found out, what's on you ? 😀
For reading:
Wikipedia - Rosetta
Wikipedia - Virtualization
Wikipedia - Emulation
In this sense
Smartcom
MisterMe
macrumors G4
GimmeSlack12 was slightly over the top, but his statement has two advantages over yours:
- He is correct in most cases.
- He gave the caveat "at least in my experience."
Additional Information: MacOS 9 contains a significant quantity of 680x0 code. PPC-based Macs required an emulator to run MacOS 9 and to execute 680x0-based apps. The emulator was part of the Toolbox ROM or ROM file. Think that a Power Mac G4 or G5 ran System 7 apps slower than a Macintosh Plus? Think again.
No Diablo 2 or no Leopard
So this means that I either have to give up Diablo 2 or never ever get Snow Leopard. I am leaning towards the later, because I don't want to keep an old computer just to play one game even if it is as bomb as Diablo 2 XD.
So this means that I either have to give up Diablo 2 or never ever get Snow Leopard. I am leaning towards the later, because I don't want to keep an old computer just to play one game even if it is as bomb as Diablo 2 XD.
GimmeSlack12
macrumors 603
I love the people who take generalizations and carefully craft a long winded, waste of time reply that forgo the fact that no one really cares. Sure, if you compared the speed of SheepShaver on my iMac 2.4 Core 2 vs. the Classic Environment on a 1.25GHz DP G4 then chances are the DP would edge it out. But then again, if you have a DP G4 you can run the Classic Environment and this problem doesn't really apply. Have fun with the extra 2 seconds of lifetime saved by using your DP. The Intel is pretty damn fast, that was my point.
I havthe same question. I have a MacBook pro 10.5 but I have some old games that need classic environment to use them. I was going to buy them on amazon but it would be foolish to waste my money if the won't work because my computer doesn't have classic environment. Is there a fix for this? Unfortunately, I don't have an old computer to use them on, so I hope if anyone can find a fix.
GimmeSlack12
macrumors 603
A couple of key questions:
What games are you interested in?
And why buy them? Most old Classic games are available through abandonware: www.macintoshgardens.org
Using SheepShaver is a little complex to get started but we are all here to help 😀
I just went to Macintosh Gardens and it said the page didn't exist. The games I'm interested in are Descent 1, 2 and 3. The discs I have are all scratched so I don't think they will work.
GimmeSlack12
macrumors 603
http://www.macintoshgarden.org/games/d?page=1
Scroll down to the Descent games. I typed the URL wrong in my other post, my bad.