The Macbook Air's thickness is just right.
The Macbook Pro's thickness is also just right.
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The Macbook Pro's thickness is also just right.
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Closed 15" MBA is thinner than the bottom part of an open MBP
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Think that's exaggerating things somewhat. I've just replaced my 5,3 MBP (2009) with an M2 16" that I consider quite thin for a MBP.
Edit: and it weighs less.
The top MBPs have functioned well as desktop replacement boxes for 12 years now since the 17" 2011 MBP brought Thunderbolt i/o to the world. As to size, I use both a 15" 2016 MBP and a 16" M2 MBP daily and physically they both remain laptops. If anything the M2 MBP is more laptop-like, because it does not get overly warm to the lap under hard usage while the 2016 Intel MBP sometimes gets unpleasantly hot (still better than earlier laptops however).
Interestingly, after 7 years IMO the primary real-world functional deficit of the 2016 MBP is its max of only 16 GB RAM (which was plenty when I bought the 2016 box in 2017). OS/apps RAM demands always increase over time. Yet many folks still argue for 16 GB RAM in new boxes today; absolutely nuts IMO to be constraining a box with 2023-2029 life cycle to RAM marginally adequate in 2023.
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1) The 16" does not "needs at least around 65W..." All Macbooks charge fine with less wattage, just not as quickly. I have for years intermittently used low-wattage chargers on my high-wattage MBPs, no problem.
2) You claim "that the extra thickness for the Pro devices are completely uncalled for considering Apple could create thinner Pro MacBooks in the past with even hotter-running Intel chips." I disagree. Most MBP users prefer to avoid uber-hot laptop operation. If Apple could reduce that hot operation while maintaining similar MBP thickness/weight, they should - - and they did, with a general cooling trend 2011-2023 MBPs.
That said, my guess is that the higher transistor densities of M3 will allow for thinner/lighter M3 MBPs without going back to hot laps. Personally after carrying a 17" MBP everywhere for six years then a 15" Intel MBP for another 6 years, the weight of the 16" M2 MBP does not bother me in the least.
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1) While it's being used. Try anything less than 65W while doing 3D modeling and see if your battery actually doesn't drain itself.
2) Apple could. That's the point. The current cooling is already way overkill for the current chips. Again, the current chips do not get even remotely as hot as whatever the Intel chips were running in the past but the current bodies are event thicker. And yet they are not significantly less loud when the device is under stress. So basically the only "benefit" here is reduced heat but at the expense of more weight.
Nice try. There are multiple dongles that fit all of those and even all of them combined do not make up for the 1.5lbs that the 16" has on top of the 15".
Point remains: the 16" is now way too big for what it is and the 15" proves Apple could always make a much thinner device, but they don't want to.
I think you'll just want to wait and try for yourself, but the new chips are just significantly faster than the old Intel 16". I jumped on M1 the first chance I got and even way back then, the 13" Pro with M1 was already outperforming the 16" despite having less RAM.
So whatever you have heard about Apple Silicon "acting like it has more RAM" is pretty much true.
P.S.: the new Pro devices aren't exactly quiet, and it's not even due to fan noise:
Basically, with great power... comes great noise. I think that just has to be understood and accepted. Personally, I just found it unacceptable to go backward in increased weight and thickness more reminiscent of pre-2012 MacBooks so I never went with the 16", but trust me, I was very tempted.
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And those machines boiled. You'd have to download a fan control app to prevent obnoxiously hot case temps, and then listen to your thin and elegant laptop begin spooling up for takeoff.
I haven't forgotten.
You say: "While it's being used. Try anything less than 65W while doing 3D modeling and see if your battery actually doesn't drain itself."
Of course one would need full power to do max work for hours without battery drain. So what? I never managed to fully drain an MBP battery plugged in to a lesser charger, despite aggressive PS images work.
You say: "Point remains: the 16" is now way too big for what it is and the 15" proves Apple could always make a much thinner device, but they don't want to."
I own a 16" M2 MBP and I disagree; IMO it is not way too big for what it is. Mine has 96 GB RAM and 2 TB SSD and works an images workflow effortlessly, exactly what I wanted (with RAM space to grow into as apps/OS evolve, which they will). I also think that Apple does want to make a thinner MBP, and I think that they will with the M3 generation. We will see.
You say: "Basically, with great power... comes great noise. I think that just has to be understood and accepted."
I strongly disagree. I had Apple's strongest 2011, 2016 and 2023 MBPs and each one has gotten quieter. None presented what I or anyone around me called "great noise." Some boxes (e.g. some Studios) have been reported to present anomalous whine; but IMO those are individual sample flaws not some consistent design characteristic. So far the M2 MBP has been dead quiet, never even spun up the fans once.
3d Modeling is all I use a mac/mbp for. Everything else I can do more efficiently on an ipad mini. If you used a 2019 16” and didn‘t fix Apple’s poor thermal design with thermal pads per the mod, you probably dont have a 2019 16” anymore bc it burned up by now. If you did, its fine as shown in the mod, as ours are. Some run on 90watt chargers, some on 87watt, no probs on either.
I’m glad to see they started taking it seriously in the mx mbp’s. I don’t know if I’d call their thermal design “overboard”. …doing what its supposed to do, I’d probably just call it effective. Would you reduce it so it becomes a problem?
I’m glad to see they started taking it seriously in the mx mbp’s. I don’t know if I’d call their thermal design “overboard”. …doing what its supposed to do, I’d probably just call it effective. Would you reduce it so it becomes a problem?
This is the answer.
Seriously? People are complaining about thickness now. But, if Apple fell back into the “thinness at all costs” camp and their Pro machines had rampant fan noise, people would complain about the fan noise. People complain about everything. Sheesh! Take your pick, people!
I know since I personally own an M2 Pro Mac Mini. I‘m just stuck with the Intel MBP since I can only switch my work laptop every 3 years. Still it saves even more time to have an M2 Pro/Max with 8 performance cores during build/test compared to only 4 in the regular M2.
Coil whine and fan noise are completely different things and coil whine has absolutely nothing to do with „great power“. Even a badly designed 5 watt charger can have coil whine.
And the number of M2 MBP with coil whine will be rather small since otherwise there would be way more reports about it (in fact your link is the first I heard about it and I follow multiple Apple/tech news sites).
The number of Intel MBPs that get loud because of fan noise and hot because of still insufficient cooling is way higher, probably every 16“ Intel that is used for demanding work.
For years and years, people screamed how the 15/16" MBP's had left pro users behind, made them too thin to be useful, they were really just MacBook Airs with a little beefier chip, poor graphics and not enough space to be either powerful or well-cooled. (they weren't wrong - it took so little to get those fans spinning hard)
Apple listens, brings the current beefy M1/M2 14/16 MBP's, and people scream about how chonky they are.
If you want thin and more than enough power for most people, get an Air. If you want Pro/Max power, get an MBP. Thin and quite powerful or chonky and very powerful.
With the 15" MBAir FINALLY offering a reasonable-cost large screen option, I just don't see what there is to complain about in the MacBook lineup.
Apple listens, brings the current beefy M1/M2 14/16 MBP's, and people scream about how chonky they are.
If you want thin and more than enough power for most people, get an Air. If you want Pro/Max power, get an MBP. Thin and quite powerful or chonky and very powerful.
With the 15" MBAir FINALLY offering a reasonable-cost large screen option, I just don't see what there is to complain about in the MacBook lineup.
The whole point of HDMI is to be able to connect to any TV / meeting room projector without an adapter. Mini HDMI would not bring anything to the table vs USB-C IMO.
Yes the 16" intel could be cooled in the thinner chassis... with fans at full blast. The 16" Max is always dead silent. I own both and made the switch for that reason alone.
Granted I've never used the SD or magsafe3 ports. But the way better display and huge increase in performance are also nice and well worth the 10% weight improvement.
Now if Apple made a 16" in the intel chassis, with the mini-led promotion display, 100% silent (even if only for MxPro) I'd definitely be interested.
This.
I have to say that Apple has probably NEVER offered a laptop lineup that was as well centered and comprehensive as this one.
Perfect choice for everybody. Back in 2017 there were only wrong choices for everybody.
Interesting debate. I've been using a 16" Pro for work, and it is an ugly big lump. The weight doesn't bother me, but the shape of the edges makes it annoyingly hard to pick up compared to the older designs.
I suspect the M2 Pro variant could comfortably be in a thinner chassis, but that the M2 Max variant needs the extra space for thermal reasons. I doubt the extra connectors made any significant difference to the thickness, and Apple could easily have stuck a third USB on the 15" Air, had they not wanted to differentiate.
I suspect the M2 Pro variant could comfortably be in a thinner chassis, but that the M2 Max variant needs the extra space for thermal reasons. I doubt the extra connectors made any significant difference to the thickness, and Apple could easily have stuck a third USB on the 15" Air, had they not wanted to differentiate.
Hmm, I'd still happily give up a mm of thickness and the added memory bandwidth to get replaceable/upgradable RAM and SSD. That would increase device longevity, would be good for the planet, and is significantly more useful overall. My partner's Windows laptop still craps on my 16" Pro graphically, so it's not like Apple has everything perfect, even in their socketless universe designed to extract unfair sums of money from people that want a regular sized SSD. Fair enough if they want to make the skinniest pro devices, but the lack of a socketed SSD (or free slot) in a laptop as chunky as the 16" Pro is simply spiteful, IMO.
If I was going to get a new laptop, at the moment, it would definitely be the 15" MBP (or whatever variant comes after that in a year or two) because I like the screen size, and I like the general portability of the MBA range, especially if I'm just at the kitchen table, in my bedroom or need to put it on my lap.
Definitely, the current MBP users I see have their laptops mostly set up as workstations where they dock them, or use the monitor as a second screen, or else they have them set up on desks since they are the more powerful, beefier machine.
Since I already have an iMac, and don't care for having much horsepower when I am just casually surfing online/listening to music/watching videos/ doing some light music/audio editing, then I don't need the horsepower or the beefiness on the go. If I do need to do something heavier, I have the option of the iMac and I am happy with that.
Different people need different thicknesses for different situations. And that's fine by me.
Definitely, the current MBP users I see have their laptops mostly set up as workstations where they dock them, or use the monitor as a second screen, or else they have them set up on desks since they are the more powerful, beefier machine.
Since I already have an iMac, and don't care for having much horsepower when I am just casually surfing online/listening to music/watching videos/ doing some light music/audio editing, then I don't need the horsepower or the beefiness on the go. If I do need to do something heavier, I have the option of the iMac and I am happy with that.
Different people need different thicknesses for different situations. And that's fine by me.
I use my m1 Max 16 MBP on Air charger, never loses charge and it charges slowly. I use a 35 W car charger on long drives and my 16 MBP keeps and charges just fine.
What is the point of this thread? Of course a Macbook Air is thinner than a Pro. That's the whole point.