Coalition for App Fairness: Apple is Using Subpoenas to Punish Opponents by Prying Into Confidential Communications

[Wildkraut]

On Windows, piracy exists and developers can still reap millions of dollars. On iOS, piracy exists, and developers can still reap millions of dollars. On Android, piracy exists and the only way for developers to make money is via ads or in app purchases?

Yeah sorry, not my fault, Android users mainly use ad supported Apps and Games.
Sure few exceptions always exists, but the average Android user mainly use ""free"" Apps and Games. 🤷‍♂️
Okay there are In-App purchases of coins, avatars, etc. but that's it.

Look at "top grossing" and then over to "top paid", with Minecraft as an paid exception, then comes a big jump to Bloons TB 6(what ever this is)

Top Grossing Apps | US | Top App Store Rankings for Android

See the Top Android Apps in US on the Google Play Charts by Free, Paid, and Top Grossing. Sensor Tower provides a detailed visualization of the top ranking apps by category and country, along with app ranking changes and review ratings!

sensortower.com

 

[Sciomar]

I didn’t say never, I said it’s the future. And, while it may have a bearing of future Android games in Android driven VR/AR glasses, it still doesn’t relate to Android games on today’s Android phones.

If you don't attack it before it establishes a foothold, you'll leave that pathway open and it'll be too late by the time it's realized.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Yeah sorry, not my fault, Android users mainly use ad supported Apps and Games.
Sure few exceptions always exists, but the average Android user mainly use ""free"" Apps and Games. 🤷‍♂️
Okay there are In-App purchases of coins, avatars, etc. but that's it.

I think it’s more accurate to say that Android users mainly use ad supported AND pirated Apps and Games. Unless you ignore the fact that piracy on Android doesn’t exist.

Look at "top grossing" and then over to "top paid", with Minecraft as an paid exception, then comes a big jump to Bloons TB 6(what ever this is)

Well, developers know there’s really no way to make money on Android unless you’re ad supported (because, while it’s trivially easy to pirate on Android, it’s not as easy to remove the ads), so that’s all you’re gonna see in the top downloads. AND interestingly, Microsoft will lock your Minecraft account if you’re caught pirating, so NOT surprising that it’s top paid. No one wants to have their cross platform access revoked when they could just spend a few bucks.

It’s almost like, if you make it hard to pirate OR you provide some downsides to pirating, that people are more apt to spend money. Android provides an easy way to pirate so that it’s up to the developers to implement those downsides.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

If you don't attack it before it establishes a foothold, you'll leave that pathway open and it'll be too late by the time it's realized.

Attack all you want (not even sure what you would attack at?), it’s going to happen because publishers love money and developers love getting paid. All they need is for RAID Shadow Legends to give them a check and it’s done. Hm, maybe you could attack RAID Shadow Legends and tell them NOT to do that?

This post not brought to you by RAID Shadow Legends. (It’s already happening!!!!)

 

[bgillander]

While I understand your point, my company's business apps have nothing to do with my personal opinions.

“working with Apple is a freaking PITA. I'd love an alternative.”

 

[richpjr]

“working with Apple is a freaking PITA. I'd love an alternative.”

Yes, for work. Submitting apps is a PITA. Random approvals or rejections of the same app based on who happens to review it. I once submitted an app and it was reviewed and approved in 6 minutes. This is the great arbitrator of filtering out spyware? Really?

That has nothing to do with my personal choices for my purchases. And since I have an iPhone, 2 iPads and a Macbook I clearly "voted" for Apple with my wallet. But that doesn't mean I approve of everything they do and wouldn't love an alternative place to get iOS apps.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

Two missed conceptions that appear again and again as an explanation why the Apple App Store has more revenue …

Voting by wallet?: If voting by was wallet was a litmus test of approval of all suppliers practices … than check complaints around the telco services. People use this counter argument as an instrument to strike opposing opinions rather rather drawing examples from reality.

Another one …. Android users have more of inclination to be Pirates than iOS users: Again a fallacy. I find no indication that there is some kind of moral divide between users or otherwise.

So what is going on?

1. Android supports vendor App Stores iOS does not. Comparisons are usually drawn only with Google Play.

2. Effectively Android does not really much of a Tablet market like iOS.

3. None of the main Android App Stores actually enforce in app payments. Meaning that in app, developers can point to their own payment systems. That is why it seams that there are more free apps in Google Play, when in fact are freemium apps just they are Apple App Store.

4. Considering the prices of Android devices vs iOS reason would say that on average iOS users may have more money than Android users … hence higher spending habits.

All this makes it difficult to track globally users spending on Android devices. Unlike iOS that consolidates all users spending in a single mandatory App Store.

So I would say that the difference between Apple Store revenue, dev collective revenue may lie mainly on the fact Apple fully enforces in app payments and it’s a single mandatory Store in iOS, rather than user on Android being more inclined to Piracy practices. Furthermore, more revenue on the Apple Store does not mean
more revenue to each dev individually. This looks far more logical.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Android users have more of inclination to be Pirates than iOS users: Again a fallacy. I find no indication that there is some kind of moral divide between users or otherwise.

Apparently, Android gamers, of ALL gamers, are the ONLY ones that PREFER to play games that are free with IAP’s or free with ads. On other platforms that provide a way for the developer to protect their investment better, gamers will pay for games… from the lower priced mobile games to the higher priced console and PC games. Only Android stands out as a place where games, that are otherwise successful on both iPhone and, say, Switch, can’t make enough of a profit to make it worth making an Android version. Further, do the Android owners that also own Playstations, Switches, and PC’s buy games on those and just not on Android?

I’m sure I could build a convoluted theory about why this is. BUT, in many cases, the simplest answer is usually the correct one.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

Apparently, Android gamers, of ALL gamers, are the ONLY ones that PREFER to play games that are free with IAP’s or free with ads.

Android gamers, iOS gamer, windows gamers, … is a classification based on pure marketing. There are simply gamers. Gamers aren’t defined by the devices they use but the games they play.

So how do you drive that conclusion? How do you justify than the PC gaming still massive presence, multiple stores and sideloading? Aren’t PC gamers also Androld or iOS gamers. What about Playstation or XBOX Gamers?

The only rational conclusion you can drive is that console and smartphone gaming growth has to do with proximity, setup and installation (get up and go) convenience … hardware upgrade once in 8 years or so. In the case of console gaming actually has a lot do do convenience paired with the price of consoles for the purpose, not so much app store gatekeeping or charging.

I understand nevertheless the interest in the fear based rationale, “security and protection” to customers and now the argument for devs. But the App Store revenue data actually shows more an effect of revenue concentration in a single channel, rather than distribution or protection.

The tech market place has always faced growth and innovation … Apple and App Store are no saviours. App Stores indeed have place, but in my view, not at expense of other entities rights to their property and innovation.

 

[Abazigal]

Yeah, it would take a lot of time to dismantle why, but quick and short: The „average“ Android user simply tic different, they mainly use „free“ Apps and also prefer ad supported games. If they see a game for 1.99€ and see the same game with ads for 0€, they prefer the 0€ ad supported version.
Just look at the current iOS/Android top grossing game charts, they are all ad supported. iOS is also slowly going more and more into this direction, that’s why Apple came with arcade, trying to push their revenue with subscriptions. As a mobile game developer, you should support both, an ad supported version and a non-ad supported version, thats the best way to go. In case of Monument Valley for Android, this game was already known from iOS and friends, the hype was over, it did not worth 3.xx€ anymore to find out what and how it is. It still had nice arts and mechanics, but did not worth the money anymore. An ad supported version of it would have probably boosted their revenue on Android more than offering it for 3.xx€. I also paid for it on iOS, but overall compared to other games of the same price, the fun was much less.

Another example is that a game like Grimvalor released as a paid app on iOS, but a free app on android that offered the first level playable for free, with the option to pay to unlock the rest of the game (effectively working out to be the same price as iOS).

So why the difference? The developer seems to operate on the assumption that iOS users are more amenable to simply purchasing paid games outright, even if they are unsure whether they will like it or not.

There are also paid apps like Tweetbot, overcast, fantastical, LumaFusion, bear, notability and Apollo which are currently iOS only. So it’s evidently profitable enough for these developers to target the iOS user demographic alone.

So iOS is not just home to great apps, it’s also home to the best apps.

I don’t think developers would want to do anything that would actively harm their own self-interests, so while I may not know the exact reasons, the iOS App Store is clearly more attractive to developers for a myriad of reasons, and denying it doesn’t really change anything, I feel.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

There are also paid apps like Tweetbot, overcast, fantastical, LumaFusion, bear, notability and Apollo which are currently iOS only. So it’s evidently profitable enough for these developers to target the iOS user demographic alone.

There are apps that are web only, others Android only, others Windows only, other mac only, others cross platform. The data as I see it points to the fact that App Stores aren’t really a defining factor of success. But the value these apps and digital services bring to their customers. Yet this value can and is allegedly being abusively conditioned by big tech policies using devices such as App Stores and descritionary OS constraints.