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Just a note on filtered water. While I completely agree that the quality of the water makes a big difference, filtered water does not really protect the machine from lime scale. If we are talking about "filtered", as in a Brita filter, or Culligan filter...they both will remove elements that, when removed, improve the taste of the coffee. However, lime scale which, among other nasty things, seriously effects the functioning of the boiler, and therefore effects reaching proper temperature, is caused by calcium carbonate (not removed by filtering)...what is often called "hard water". If the machine does not have a built in (and replaceable) water softener cartridge, frequent de-scaling of the machine is necessary. Even with a water softener cartridge, de-scaling is still necessary, but not as frequently.

So, the use of filtered water is, I fully agree, necessary for the taste of the coffee, water softener and de-scaling is essential for the proper functioning of the machine...

Once again, I acknowledge my lack of specific knowledge of Keurig systems. My comments are general in regard to espresso and drip machines...and perhaps Keurig, but others are better able to comment specifically on those coffee machines.

I used to use vinegar to descale my coffee maker, but have not done so recently. It makes the house smell real good. :p

The new Nespresso line (VirtuoLine) claims to produce a significant amount of crema with each cup. Viz:

Image

The problem is, it isn't crema. Once it pulls the "shot," the VL spins the coffee at a high speed and uses a little metal fork to whip the coffee, which produces a prodigious amount of foam, which you can see in the picture above, but it is not crema. It is just lots of tiny little bubbles that lack the fat/oil emulsification that is crema's most important ingredient.

Beyond that, I don't really care if they call it crema or not, but (and I will try to say this without violating Shrink's Law) to me everything about that foam is off-putting; the flavor, the consistency, everything just generally unpleasant. I'm sure it is a good marketing technique vs. the K cup line, and you have to believe they tested the stuff in consumer focus groups and the like, but even given the general lack of appreciation for fresh and properly made coffee in the US, I will be very surprised if the new line takes off. But, of course, I am usually wrong when it comes to calling popular tastes.

I don't like foam on beer or coffee. :)
 
I found the traditional drop coffee makers are better then Keurig from the simple fact of cost.

Yeah, without question it’s cheaper, but the convenience factor for us so overwhelmingly favors the Keurig, we mostly abandoned drip.

We tend to swap roasts/flavors between cups (or between us!) which really favors the by-the-cup Keurig model.

Then we keep a nice, high quality whole bean, and use the FP if we’re having a more leisurely morning. The FP is easily stored, (the grinder tucked away in a corner) so it makes a nice combo with the big K machine :)
 
The problem is, it isn't crema.

Bummer! The "normal" Nespressos produce a wholly consistent true crema. The metal cups let them deal with the pressures needed.

The coffee snobs that I work with are quite happy with their Pixie.

B
 
A lot of the time, I use a Hario ceramic cone (with unbleached paper filter) to make a single cup coffee, or I use the old style French press (my current one is made by the French company Le Creuset)when I need to make more than one cup.

For espresso, I use an ancient, much loved, and very battered Bialetti moka stove stop pot.
 
I moved back to a drip coffee maker as I can by my ground coffee in bulk - I'm sure this makes SandboxGeneral and Shrink shudder at the thought of buying huge amounts of no name coffee :p

Don't forget to add Kurwenal to your list! :p

So in my book, bulk coffee should mean whole green beans, which as I understand can be stored for about three months - I think. Otherwise the term bulk, would otherwise indicate a stockpile of beans, green or roasted only to be used in case of a nuclear holocaust where there is essentially no other option available to get fresh coffee.

Even one pound of beans, ground and sitting around for a while, days or even weeks it loses it's freshness, which is about 15 minutes after it's been ground.

You're right, I do shudder to think of this atrocity you bring up of bulk, ground coffee! :eek:

But, Shrink's Law should prevail here and as long as you're happy with it, that's all that matters! :)
 
Don't forget to add Kurwenal to your list! :p

So in my book, bulk coffee should mean whole green beans, which as I understand can be stored for about three months - I think. Otherwise the term bulk, would otherwise indicate a stockpile of beans, green or roasted only to be used in case of a nuclear holocaust where there is essentially no other option available to get fresh coffee.

Even one pound of beans, ground and sitting around for a while, days or even weeks it loses it's freshness, which is about 15 minutes after it's been ground.

You're right, I do shudder to think of this atrocity you bring up of bulk ground coffee! :eek:

But, Shrink's law should prevail here and as long as you're happy with it, that's all that matters! :)

Sometimes, my friend, needs must.

Some of us find ourselves in strange parts of the world where Illy (or LavAzza) ground coffee in a tin (already ground) is viewed as a wildly extravagant, nay, self-indulgent luxury, and one pays around $10 for such a tin (and one - this one at least - will pay it gladly, let me add). As I said, needs must…..
 
Sometimes, my friend, needs must.

Some of us find ourselves in strange parts of the world where Illy (or LavAzza) ground coffee in a tin (already ground) is viewed as a wildly extravagant, nay, self-indulgent luxury, and one pays around $10 for such a tin (and one - this one at least - will pay it gladly, let me add). As I said, needs must…..

Of course extenuating circumstances require other solutions, no doubt. :)

In my earlier description, I may have, maybe, exaggerated, just a little....
 
Of course extenuating circumstances require other solutions, no doubt. :)

In my earlier description, I may have, maybe, exaggerated, just a little....

Indeed; to be honest, when I am at home, I will happily potter around languidly enjoying the preparations for making an espresso with my Bialetti moka pot; but this is an operation that takes time, and calls for a relaxed ambience.

Abroad, in some of the places where I work, even obtaining coffee can be an issue, hence, when I spot what is available (usually in high end coffee shops, or say, a shop which stocks some Italian staples, such as LavAzza and Illy), I swoop, and buy, and give grateful thanks that such a possibility exists.

In such settings, a French press is an undreamed of luxury, and ownership of a basic Gaggia an extravagance accurately describing a deranged personality.
 
I used to use vinegar to descale my coffee maker, but have not done so recently. It makes the house smell real good. :p

An excellent descaler and back flush, often recommended by manufacturers, is Cafiza.

I used it on all my machines, with the exception of my current machine, which does not require descaling or back flushing..
 
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The problem I have with Keurig is the incredible, incredible amount of waste. Yes they have the reusable cups but 99% of people don't bother.

Plus, you can't adequately control two of the three main things that make a cup of coffee good: Water temp and brew time.

So many people have told me that if they want a strong cup of coffee they just "press the button for a small"... and what if they want a normal size cup? "Oh just use two K cups!" And more waste ensues...

Plus the convenience argument is pretty stupid - you don't have time to set up your Mr. Coffee the night before? Or start your coffee brewing before you brush your hair or put on a face? It takes five minutes to make a couple cups of coffee the normal way... not a big deal.
 
I spent $100 on a Keurig (and another $100 on K-cups), and wish I hadn't. A $20 coffee pot makes better coffee, and is cheaper.

The French press is a very forgiving, flexible and understanding companion when trying to make a cup of coffee.

As long as your coffee is of a decent (oh, alright, a very good - or, exceedingly good - quality), your grinder (if you choose to go the more advanced level, and grind your own) is a (naturally) burr grinder, and your water of a reasonable quality, it is actually quite difficult to make a poor cup of coffee with this equipment.
 
I've noticed the newer drip coffee makers have a "strong brew" button. I've speculated that the only way to achieve this with drip is to have the water drip slower.
 
I've noticed the newer drip coffee makers have a "strong brew" button. I've speculated that the only way to achieve this with drip is to have the water drip slower.

Depending on the model, that button either causes the machine to steep the coffee for a longer period of time (up to 2x) or reduce the amount of water used to brew the coffee, resulting in a more concentrated but smaller volume of coffee. Or both.

Either is horrifying. Stale coffee steeped at 150 or 170 degrees is disgusting, and when steeped for 12 minutes instead of 6 it just becomes disgusting, over-extracted coffee.

In my humble opinion, and paying homage to Shrink's Law.
 
Depending on the model, that button either causes the machine to steep the coffee for a longer period of time (up to 2x) or reduce the amount of water used to brew the coffee, resulting in a more concentrated but smaller volume of coffee. Or both.

Either is horrifying. Stale coffee steeped at 150 or 170 degrees is disgusting, and when steeped for 12 minutes instead of 6 it just becomes disgusting, over-extracted coffee.

In my humble opinion, and paying homage to Shrink's Law.

I've consumed stronger coffee by means of the strong brew feature from a drip machine and was happy with the result. :) If we are talking drip, I see no way, in the design of standard drip machines that would allow for "steeping", just a slower drip. In two machines friends have, there is no mechanism that I could see that would hold the water in the coffee grounds. It just flows through. The only apparent variable is the rate at which water is released into the grounds.
 
I've consumed stronger coffee by means of the strong brew feature from a drip machine and was happy with the result. :) If we are talking drip, I see no way, in the design of standard drip machines that would allow for "steeping", just a slower drip. In two machines friends have, there is no mechanism that I could see that would hold the water in the coffee grounds. It just flows through. The only apparent variable is the rate at which water is released into the grounds.

Ah, I was referring to the various pre-packaged "pod" and "cup" machines.

In a pure drip brewer, the "stronger" button or dial most often operates by shunting some of the water away from the grounds. So, for example, if there is a strength knob or dial, turning the dial away from "+" or "strong" adjusts the amount of water that never touches the coffee. To use an analogy from the espresso world, you are really just pulling a short shot.

I have no idea what machine you are using, of course, but, next time you try that "strong" button, look carefully up in the back of the filter housing and you will probably see water coming down the back of the filter housing and by-passing the grounds basket completely. It is a cheap and easy way to appear to make the coffee "stronger."

Of course, the #1 problem with nearly every drip brewer (especially the low cost models) is the lack of a high enough and consistent water temperature. Years ago, I did some testing on a well-reviewed drip machine. It started out at 170, and by the end of the brew cycle it was putting out 140 degree water. Starting bad, and getting worse. There is just no way to properly steep coffee at those temperatures; the necessary chemical reactions just never happen.
 
Of course, the #1 problem with nearly every drip brewer (especially the low cost models) is the lack of a high enough and consistent water temperature. Years ago, I did some testing on a well-reviewed drip machine. It started out at 170, and by the end of the brew cycle it was putting out 140 degree water. Starting bad, and getting worse. There is just no way to properly steep coffee at those temperatures; the necessary chemical reactions just never happen.

I can affirm those findings in regards to a relatively cheap Hamilton Beach automatic drip machine that I have. I didn't test the temperature extensively, but one time. Right after it finished I put a thermometer in the coffee cup and if I recall properly, it was only about 160-170℉. There were other times I could notice that it was hotter than that, but most of the time it was about that temp or slightly cooler. Regardless of my unscientific testing, my lips could tell there was dramatic differences in the temperature from cup to cup.
 
Ah, I was referring to the various pre-packaged "pod" and "cup" machines.

In a pure drip brewer, the "stronger" button or dial most often operates by shunting some of the water away from the grounds. So, for example, if there is a strength knob or dial, turning the dial away from "+" or "strong" adjusts the amount of water that never touches the coffee. To use an analogy from the espresso world, you are really just pulling a short shot.

I have no idea what machine you are using, of course, but, next time you try that "strong" button, look carefully up in the back of the filter housing and you will probably see water coming down the back of the filter housing and by-passing the grounds basket completely. It is a cheap and easy way to appear to make the coffee "stronger."

Of course, the #1 problem with nearly every drip brewer (especially the low cost models) is the lack of a high enough and consistent water temperature. Years ago, I did some testing on a well-reviewed drip machine. It started out at 170, and by the end of the brew cycle it was putting out 140 degree water. Starting bad, and getting worse. There is just no way to properly steep coffee at those temperatures; the necessary chemical reactions just never happen.

Interesting. I am by no means a drip coffee machine expert. That said, my experience with the strong brew feature of the drip machines, is that no water is diverted and you end up with the same amount of coffee at the end. I could be remembering wrong.

Also my impression is that for a drip machine, for the water to percolate up to then flow down through the coffee, a certain water temperature must be achieved to facilitate the mechanics of this process, water at or near boiling? My assumption is that a certain temp would be required for the machine to function?
 
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Interesting. I am by no means a drip coffee machine expert. That said, my experience with the strong brew feature of the drip machines, is that no water is diverted and you end up with the same amount of coffee at the end. I could be remembering wrong.

Also my impression is that for a drip machine, for the water to percolate up to then flow down through the coffee, a certain water temperature must be achieved to facilitate the mechanics of this process, water at or near boiling? My assumption is that a certain temp would be required for the machine to function?

I will quickly disclaim the title "drip expert" as well. My current machine-of-choice is a La Marzocco GS/3.

No doubt any generalization about such a large number of machines is likely to be wrong, of course. Easy enough to test, though, for a particular machine. Just tracking and recording only two variables, volume and time, will reveal the answer.


I can affirm those findings in regards to a relatively cheap Hamilton Beach automatic drip machine that I have. I didn't test the temperature extensively, but one time. Right after it finished I put a thermometer in the coffee cup and if I recall properly, it was only about 160-170℉. There were other times I could notice that it was hotter than that, but most of the time it was about that temp or slightly cooler. Regardless of my unscientific testing, my lips could tell there was dramatic differences in the temperature from cup to cup.

Very true.

I recall reading somewhere that one trick with an under-powered drip machine is to run the water through twice, the first time with no coffee and the second with the already-heated water + coffee. I claim no first-hand knowledge, but apparently this gets those cheap under-powered machines up closer to 200, at least at the beginning of the brew cycle.
 
Very true.

I recall reading somewhere that one trick with an under-powered drip machine is to run the water through twice, the first time with no coffee and the second with the already-heated water + coffee. I claim no first-hand knowledge, but apparently this gets those cheap under-powered machines up closer to 200, at least at the beginning of the brew cycle.

That sounds like a good idea. The next time I, if I, use that machine again, I'll try to do that.

These days, as you well know, I am either making espresso in the Gaggia or coffee in my French Press, so the Hamilton Beach has been retired to the back of the cupboard.
 
Be careful. Soon you will need a bigger cupboard. ;)

My friend, it's too late! I am in need of reorganizing the cupboard directly above the Gaggia to hold all the coffee accessories and cups, and mugs. Right now it's in a bit of disarray, yet still functional.

As I plan for certain future wants and needs, I will have to do something more to accommodate space for unused machines. :)
 
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