Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Spot on description of what crypto currencies are. They are just "assets" with no meaningful real value. We only see their prices explode because we see prices in all asset markets explode. That is not a success story of crypto currencies, it's an asset bubble caused by poor macroeconomic policies. The low-interest-rate of the recent years has brought us there.

And why are interest rates so low? Because politicians and economists (mostly neoclassical) incorrectly assumed that monetary policy by central banks can control consumer price inflation by indirectly controlling money creation through lending of private banks. But they evidently can't because the amount of money does not cause such inflation. Rising salary does. More money in the wrong place just causes asset bubbles.

But since at least a decade (in japan even since about 25 years) companies do not lend money anymore even with zero interest rates. Central banks can lower interest rates but they can't force companies to invest. This is perfectly described by economist Richard Koo.

)

Instead money goes into assets. But if one saves money there must be another one that takes the same amount as debt. Currently it's the state.

Crypto currencies are not the solution, they are a symptom of poor monetary policy. Private banks are creating billions of additional money every year through lending. But those credits that have in the past been used by companies to invest into an increase of productivity increasingly flow into the pockets of the already wealthy that instead use it to bet on rising prices of assets, no matter if it is stocks, real estate or crypto currencies. The whole development reminds me of what happened in 1929.

Currencies that are unregulated and subject to massive speculation on the market will never be accepted as general means of payment because they are inherently unstable and they lack an authority that enforces demand for it through taxation.
And now tell me. What do you think cash is?

Before, gold was the backer for cash, but ultimately it has no intrinsic value these days. The banks just print more when needed. It's backed by no asset so just like crypto, it can fluctuate and the price can be manipulated easily.

Great. More ways for most people to lose real money.

Is Bitcoin a scam? Ask yourself how Bitcoin is valued and you have your answer.

What does Bitcoin produce? The answer is nothing and this is why it is such a great scam. The price can literally be anything you want and there is an argument to justify it.

At the end of the day, if you’re valuing your Bitcoin in terms of dollars, you still want the dollars and all your arguments fall apart.
And you trust your government with your money?

Take Cyprus as an example. (All bank deposits over €100k were seized no matter how legit your money was).

Take Spain as an example. (The tax office can seize money without warning at their discretion)

Governments can manipulate currency to their hearts' content.

The point of decentralization is to protect against this. That's why it carries value.
 
Actually, the price can be literally anything Elon Musk wants. The entire cryptocurrency economy is dependent on Elon Musk's Twitter account.
This is the difference between regulated and unregulated markets.

Elon did the same with his stock and manipulated the "traditional" centralized markets accordingly.

There is no difference.

However, regulation over time will put a stop to that and allow cryptocurrencies to correct themselves over time.

One thing to realize is this is the very tip of the iceberg in terms of pioneering technology. There is a huge promise with crypto, but like anything new, somebody will take advantage, and this is where scams occur. However, your assertion that 99.9% of all projects are scams is just absolute nonsense.
 
And now tell me. What do you think cash is?

Before, gold was the backer for cash, but ultimately it has no intrinsic value these days. The banks just print more when needed. It's backed by no asset so just like crypto, it can fluctuate and the price can be manipulated easily.


And you trust your government with your money?

Take Cyprus as an example. (All bank deposits over €100k were seized no matter how legit your money was).

Take Spain as an example. (The tax office can seize money without warning at their discretion)

Governments can manipulate currency to their hearts' content.

The point of decentralization is to protect against this. That's why it carries value.
The US Government is not Cyprus or Spain, but nothing would stop governments from dropping crypto to worthless by banning them for commerce too. The government can hurt a decentralized currency too.

There are limitless scams associated with a decentralized currency and volatility, trust, and loss of ownership are major problems. Compare it to the Visa network. It’s the Stone Age in comparison.

How do you value Bitcoin? In terms of what? The only reason people want it is because it’s worth a lot of dollars.
 
  • Like
  • Disagree
Reactions: Santiago and jooish
Before, gold was the backer for cash, but ultimately it has no intrinsic value these days. The banks just print more when needed. It's backed by no asset so just like crypto, it can fluctuate and the price can be manipulated easily.
Gold has more intrinsic value than bitcoin. In many cultures, gold is used as jewelry and people find gold pleasing to look at physically. Gold also has many applications as a material.

Currencies can fluctuate, yes, stable currencies like the dollar, yen, euro, pound fluctuate by less than 1% by day but cryptocurrencies, due to their speculative nature, often fluctuate by 5, 10, 15% or more.



And you trust your government with your money?
This is the difference between regulated and unregulated markets.
Elon did the same with his stock and manipulated the "traditional" centralized markets accordingly.

There is no difference.

However, regulation over time will put a stop to that and allow cryptocurrencies to correct themselves over time.

So you don't trust the government with your money but you want the government to regulate your crypto, which you think of as money. Ok. Isn't the whole point of crypto is that it's trustless and can't be controlled by an entity. But now you think the government needs to come in to save crypto? LOL.

Take Cyprus as an example. (All bank deposits over €100k were seized no matter how legit your money was).
Yes, some countries experience few economic collapses. But guess what? Unlike countries, ICOs have a significantly higher failure rate. I maintain that 99.99% are scams.

Governments can manipulate currency to their hearts' content.
Sure. So can cryptocurrencies.

The point of decentralization is to protect against this. That's why it carries value.
Pick 2 out of 3: decentralization, security, performance.

One thing to realize is this is the very tip of the iceberg in terms of pioneering technology. There is a huge promise with crypto, but like anything new, somebody will take advantage, and this is where scams occur. However, your assertion that 99.9% of all projects are scams is just absolute nonsense.
Oh please. Stop with this BS. 99.99% of cryptocurrencies are a solution searching for a problem.
 
And now tell me. What do you think cash is?

Before, gold was the backer for cash, but ultimately it has no intrinsic value these days. The banks just print more when needed. It's backed by no asset so just like crypto, it can fluctuate and the price can be manipulated easily.


And you trust your government with your money?

Take Cyprus as an example. (All bank deposits over €100k were seized no matter how legit your money was).

Take Spain as an example. (The tax office can seize money without warning at their discretion)

Governments can manipulate currency to their hearts' content.

The point of decentralization is to protect against this. That's why it carries value.
Money is the quantification of an obligation. Whenever somebody lends money, it is created and when it's paid back it is destroyed. There is nothing to be backed. The amount of obligations any individuals inside of an economy want or need is dependent on the overall economic situation and currency policy has to be in accordance with that.

And you trust your government with your money?

Well, currently they are doing a lot of silly things from a macroeconomic perspective. It's not that I trust the government, it's that currency needs regulation in order to work properly. I simply understand, that there is a need for protection and regulation. And crypto currencies do not provide that.

What a currency has to be protected against is market speculation because it destroys its ability to act as a stable means of payment.

Cryptocurrencies aren't freedom, they are anarchy.

Also as long as we have nation states with currencies and more or less stable economies, crypto can go home as those state will not accept tax payments in any other currency than their own.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Santiago
Nice, I use coinbase pro as my main exchange.
I would definitely recommend getting the Coinbase debit card to anyone. You get cash back on any purchase anywhere (1% back in Bitcoin or 4% back in Stellar Lumens, your choice).

The trick is to correctly decide which of your crypto holdings you want to use for transactions. You'll want to use a stablecoin like USDC because there's no transaction fee with those. If you choose to use Bitcoin for your Coinbase debit card transactions, you're going to pay a 2.49% transaction fee to convert the Bitcoin to USD for the transaction.

I just learned yesterday that I can use my Coinbase debit card with Apple Pay, and I quickly proceeded to set that card as the default card for Apple Pay.
 
  • Like
Reactions: iapplelove
Gold has more intrinsic value than bitcoin. In many cultures, gold is used as jewelry and people find gold pleasing to look at physically. Gold also has many applications as a material.

Currencies can fluctuate, yes, stable currencies like the dollar, yen, euro, pound fluctuate by less than 1% by day but cryptocurrencies, due to their speculative nature, often fluctuate by 5, 10, 15% or more.






So you don't trust the government with your money but you want the government to regulate your crypto, which you think of as money. Ok. Isn't the whole point of crypto is that it's trustless and can't be controlled by an entity. But now you think the government needs to come in to save crypto? LOL.


Yes, some countries experience few economic collapses. But guess what? Unlike countries, ICOs have a significantly higher failure rate. I maintain that 99.99% are scams.


Sure. So can cryptocurrencies.


Pick 2 out of 3: decentralization, security, performance.


Oh please. Stop with this BS. 99.99% of cryptocurrencies are a solution searching for a problem.
It sounds like you lost out and are bitter. Better luck next time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Psychicbob
It sounds like you lost out and are bitter. Better luck next time.
Ah yes. This is usually the last argument made from crypto stans.

Lose a technical argument? Just finish by saying that "you probably lost out on the gains so now you're bitter".

I'm very comfortable financially, have made money through my other investments, and don't prefer to gamble in cryptocurrencies that are damaging to the planet and scams people.
 
And if Ethereum ever has to process as many transactions as Visa, well, guess what? It needs to build its system exactly like Visa.
There is more than one single way to make something good.

Apple's M1 chip "processes as many transactions" as Intel's chips, and Apple didn't have to build it exactly like Intel did.
 
  • Like
Reactions: terrapin_nation
I worked in the crypto space for 2 years. 99.99% of the projects are straight-up scams.

Everything in crypto is just a ponzi scheme

True. That’s what happens when we have 12 years of no regulation, anons selling magic bean tokens to desperate people, and most of those anons being very rich and connected in the first place.

A good example of how these schemes are almost completely being run by a gang of wealthy friends is the fact that Chamath, Bilaji, A16Z and others in their circle are behind most of the bigger pump and dumps. The big exchanges are all part of the racket as the guys above also are the funders and shareholders of these manipulated exchanges.

Tether. We all heard about what a racket this is. Money laundering and counterfeit bigger than any banks did back in the day.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Santiago
This certainly lowers the barrier of entry for some people. As others have pointed out I’m not sure that is a good idea.
 
I worked in the crypto space for 2 years. 99.99% of the projects are straight-up scams.

Everything in crypto is just a ponzi scheme (and a bit like a pyramid scheme). You own a crytocurrency? You hype it up blindly in order to get more buyers. Then you exit for a profit. Anyone saying cryptocurrency is useful or is the future is only saying that to drive hype, thus price, before exiting.

14 years later, crypto hasn't done anything useful except enabling money laundering and buying illegal things. Not only that, it wastes energy (green or not) and hundreds of thousands of people talent that could have gone into solving more pressing problems in the world.

What cryptocurrencies are is just a modern, efficient way of creating and exiting scams. Cryptocurrencies take advantage of social media to spread and the fact that there is a lot of cash looking for "investments" due to our current low interest-rate environment.

Unlike owning things like stocks where the entities must have boards, report financials, have audits, disclose risks, crypto companies can raise $100 million and then completely shut down the next day without any repercussions except getting a few angry tweets from investors. Once you give money to a crypto project, the founders can do whatever the hell they want.

People say blockchain doesn't have a "killer application" yet. Actually, it does. Its killer application is scamming.

There is a reason why a significant portion of crypto companies are registered in the Cayman Islands.

I wish the U.S. and EU would just grow a pair and ban all crypto like China did.
Blockchain technology is still very young like the internet in the mid 90s in 2018 it was a sort of a joke to talk about it being used in the DoD now its utilized for a variety of applications the decentralized nature of it allows for the easy hosting of internal tools that cant be as easily targeted as a centralized application can by a foreign advisory. Just using it for record keeping has cut down on a lot of internal theft and compliance issues that plagued us in the past.

EDIT: Outside a handful of projects in the civilian space I agree most are scams I would keep an eye on Ethereum its similar to what we use internally from a feature standpoint but less robust and polished at this time if they overcome some issues it could really open up a lot of possibilities most people haven't imagined yet for blockchain technology.
 
Last edited:
I worked in the crypto space for 2 years. 99.99% of the projects are straight-up scams.

Everything in crypto is just a ponzi scheme (and a bit like a pyramid scheme). You own a crytocurrency? You hype it up blindly in order to get more buyers. Then you exit for a profit. Anyone saying cryptocurrency is useful or is the future is only saying that to drive hype, thus price, before exiting.

14 years later, crypto hasn't done anything useful except enabling money laundering and buying illegal things. Not only that, it wastes energy (green or not) and hundreds of thousands of people talent that could have gone into solving more pressing problems in the world.

What cryptocurrencies are is just a modern, efficient way of creating and exiting scams. Cryptocurrencies take advantage of social media to spread and the fact that there is a lot of cash looking for "investments" due to our current low interest-rate environment.

Unlike owning things like stocks where the entities must have boards, report financials, have audits, disclose risks, crypto companies can raise $100 million and then completely shut down the next day without any repercussions except getting a few angry tweets from investors. Once you give money to a crypto project, the founders can do whatever the hell they want.

People say blockchain doesn't have a "killer application" yet. Actually, it does. Its killer application is scamming.

There is a reason why a significant portion of crypto companies are registered in the Cayman Islands.

I wish the U.S. and EU would just grow a pair and ban all crypto like China did.
you „worked„ in the crypto space? As what? It‘s true that most of the centralized projects (so basically everything other than Bitcoin) are probably endling up as scam and wasted energy... Bitcoin is definitely not one of these... please do your research if you are think so and do not spread FUD for no reason. Bitcoin is already changing the people... Bitcoiners are getting much more conscious when it comes to consuming goods... in the end you always ever ask yourself... do I really need to buy the next new iPhone or can I wait one more year and stack some Satoshis instead. ...Bitcoin will change the world... in a good and healthy way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: miniyou64
I worked in the crypto space for 2 years. 99.99% of the projects are straight-up scams.

Everything in crypto is just a ponzi scheme (and a bit like a pyramid scheme). You own a crytocurrency? You hype it up blindly in order to get more buyers. Then you exit for a profit. Anyone saying cryptocurrency is useful or is the future is only saying that to drive hype, thus price, before exiting.

14 years later, crypto hasn't done anything useful except enabling money laundering and buying illegal things. Not only that, it wastes energy (green or not) and hundreds of thousands of people talent that could have gone into solving more pressing problems in the world.

What cryptocurrencies are is just a modern, efficient way of creating and exiting scams. Cryptocurrencies take advantage of social media to spread and the fact that there is a lot of cash looking for "investments" due to our current low interest-rate environment.

Unlike owning things like stocks where the entities must have boards, report financials, have audits, disclose risks, crypto companies can raise $100 million and then completely shut down the next day without any repercussions except getting a few angry tweets from investors. Once you give money to a crypto project, the founders can do whatever the hell they want.

People say blockchain doesn't have a "killer application" yet. Actually, it does. Its killer application is scamming.

There is a reason why a significant portion of crypto companies are registered in the Cayman Islands.

I wish the U.S. and EU would just grow a pair and ban all crypto like China did.

Strange how you claim to have worked in the crypto space for 2 years and still don't understand the value of crypto...

Asking for the US government to ban crypto is like asking for free speech to be banned. Your views are very privileged and ignorant.

We might as well shut down sugar manufacturing, soda companies and fast food restaurants that have destroyed the lives of people that consume too much of those products to their detriment.
 
Where are the actual counterarguments? Or there just isn't any?

This is the third person who refuses to address any of my points except to resort to ad hominem.

Quote my arguments and provide your counterargument. Let's debate.
I also want to be in the debate. If you are having one
 
We might as well shut down sugar manufacturing, soda companies and fast food restaurants that have destroyed the lives of people that consume too much of those products to their detriment.
If we try to shut them down they will just put their companies on the blockchain. We can't win this battle
 
  • Like
Reactions: terrapin_nation
Isn't Crypto Asset digital goods? Why is Apple not charging 30% App Store commission?
 
Isn't Crypto Asset digital goods? Why is Apple not charging 30% App Store commission?
Cryptos have a higher market cap than Apple. If Apple charged them 30% commissions they would just charge Apple 30% commissions back and it would be a draw
 
  • Like
Reactions: terrapin_nation
I don’t see why people slag off crypto when all the major countries are looking into implementing their own crypto.

If you look at the Swedish e-krona project they're using Distributed Ledger Technology (which I guess are a superset of blockchain technologies) but with some huge differences from bitcoin:

* No resource intensive mining
* The central bank is the only actor who can create coins
* The central bank is the only actor who can destroy coins
* No limits on the number of coins (I think)
* The central bank distributes the coins to participating banks
* The banks can run their own node
* The people buys coins from the banks, the banks notifies the central bank which issues new coins and delivers them
* The coin's value is tied to the fiat currency
 
  • Like
Reactions: Santiago
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.