All iPads Combined - Apple is killing iPad. New Models are Underwhelming

[sleepyking]

confused

why were they able to release a Retina iPad for the same price, Retina iPhones for the same price, and Touch ID phones for the same price (subsidized at least), but not a Retina Mini for the same price????

if it included Touch ID, that would've made it more reasonable at least from a buyer's point of view, or at the very least my point of view.

at first I didn't really care much for Touch ID but after having gotten used to it on the 5S, it's very convenient when unlocking and it has recently been consistently working when I download new apps, not just music. Would've loved this on the new Mini too, as it would be more future-proofing once the technology gains more use.

is there a chance Apple releases the Mini w/ touch ID sometime next Spring???

 

[TheBing1980]

I honestly don't think there is anything they could do w/o a ton of complaints.

At the end of the day, we're still buying them!

 

[Kurthis]

Same procedure as every keynote...

1) Apple presents new/updated products
2) Press and some users say it is underwhelming
3) People buy ********s of the oh so underwhelming products
4) Apple stock drops

 

[cardinalryan]

iPad "Air" and iPad mini now have the same exact specs save only for size. And the Mini is $100 less.

Seriously, who wouldn't go for the cheaper of the two? Besides, the pixel density will be higher on the Mini meaning it will look even better than the iPad Air.

Sorry, but now that both devices have the same specs, who would be interested in the larger iPad Air?

Gotta say that I agree with this...I was looking forward to today and looking for a reason to go back to iOS but this just doesn't do it.

And the price increase on the mini?? Are you kidding?? I am not one to scoff at price and I'm willing to pay for quality devices, but this simply isn't inline with equal, if not better, offerings from Asus/Google and Amazon.

I suspect that the Nexus 7 just picked up quite a bit of momentum after today. Many people were waiting for today's announcement before making a tablet buying decision in 2013 and I think this definitely tipped the scale in favor of Google.

Loyalists will continue to buy, but with each underwhelming announcement, Apple loses more and more. I'm not happy about this...I may still buy because it is a quality device, but I will struggle with the logic of paying a $200 premium over an equal product.

----------

Same procedure as every keynote...

1) Apple presents new/updated products
2) Press and some users say it is underwhelming
3) People buy ********s of the oh so underwhelming products
4) Apple stock drops

I think you will see something different this go round. I believe the full sized iPad will continue to sell well, but I have my doubts about the Mini selling the way it did a year ago with a $70 price increase. As with all predictions, I may well be wrong, but I do not think that Mini sales will be record breaking.

 

[futbalguy]

Gotta say that I agree with this...I was looking forward to today and looking for a reason to go back to iOS but this just doesn't do it.

And the price increase on the mini?? Are you kidding?? I am not one to scoff at price and I'm willing to pay for quality devices, but this simply isn't inline with equal, if not better, offerings from Asus/Google and Amazon.

I suspect that the Nexus 7 just picked up quite a bit of momentum after today. Many people were waiting for today's announcement before making a tablet buying decision in 2013 and I think this definitely tipped the scale in favor of Google.

Loyalists will continue to buy, but with each underwhelming announcement, Apple loses more and more. I'm not happy about this...I may still buy because it is a quality device, but I will struggle with the logic of paying a $200 premium over an equal product.

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I think you will see something different this go round. I believe the full sized iPad will continue to sell well, but I have my doubts about the Mini selling the way it did a year ago with a $70 price increase. As with all predictions, I may well be wrong, but I do not think that Mini sales will be record breaking.

If people were willing to pay $329 for the old iPad Mini. They should be more than willing to pay $399 for the new one. The new one is so much better than the old one. Are you people crazy? The new processor is going to destroy the old one which was a generation older than the iPad. The screen is going to be soooo much better. I don't understand ANY of these complaints. The new mini is worth twice as much as the old mini in my eyes. Its going to be so much more useful. It is the iPad Air with a slightly smaller screen. Why wouldn't it be just about the same price as the fullsize iPad? Its only $400 for a great product. The old mini was a crippled iPad, this one is a full fledged iPad with no tradeoffs. It is priced as such.

As a side note, sometimes I dont think people consider the value they will get out of a product. People regularly spend $50-$100 at a bar in a major city but complain about paying $400 for a device that they will probably used just about every day.

 

[futbalguy]

[/COLOR]
I think you will see something different this go round. I believe the full sized iPad will continue to sell well, but I have my doubts about the Mini selling the way it did a year ago with a $70 price increase. As with all predictions, I may well be wrong, but I do not think that Mini sales will be record breaking.[/QUOTE]

It doesnt matter which one sells more as long as in combination they sell a lot. Apple is giving you a choice of screen size. They could have priced the two at the same price and it would be fair in my opinion. Why arent people complaining that the iPad Air cost $100 more than the iPad Mini? If the iPad Air is not overpriced then neither is the iPad Mini which has the same functionality for $100 less.

 

[gtmac]

I want one of each!

Yep me too. Mailing my iPad 3 in to Amazon!!

 

[smiddlehurst]

You dont get it do you? The next air will have an A7X or A8, fingerprint sensor and IGZO, it is pretty obvious that marketing played a huge role in the decision making process of this iteration.

The next version of a computer will have a faster processor? You don't say!

Sorry but I really dislike this sort of view. It's the same nonsense that came along last year when the Mini didn't have a retina display and it's just lazy thinking. That wasn't marketing, it was physics! Fit an A6X and you'd need a bigger chassis, get worse battery life and have significant heat issues. Apple decided those compromises weren't worth it so held on for a year until the A7 was ready.

This is no different really. The A7 could easily have been called an A7X and no-one would have batted an eyelid, the performance easily justifies that even in the 5s (and as we don't yet know clock speed in the iPad it could improve still further). IGZO panels offers power benefits but are significantly more expensive (common estimates at iPad size would be between 1.5x and 2x) which would most likely be passed on to the consumer and aren't actually required to deliver the device so why do them? There's also, AFAIK, no indication that IGZO is ready for market in the quantities Apple would need.

Look, I'm sorry to be so blunt here but you *did* lead with "you don't get it" so what the heck. Any product is limited by the technology that is available and the quantities that technology is available in. Whinging on Internet forums about it all being 'marketing' is ridiculous and shows a real lack of understanding of the real world problems involved in bringing products to market. When / if IGZO or any other tech turns up it'll be because it a) solves a problem, b) is cost-effective and c) is available in sufficient quantities to meet demand. If you want to wait for it then by all means do so, that's absolutely a valid choice. But to moan that it's all 'marketing' is just ludicrous IMO.

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why were they able to release a Retina iPad for the same price, Retina iPhones for the same price, and Touch ID phones for the same price (subsidized at least), but not a Retina Mini for the same price????

if it included Touch ID, that would've made it more reasonable at least from a buyer's point of view, or at the very least my point of view.

at first I didn't really care much for Touch ID but after having gotten used to it on the 5S, it's very convenient when unlocking and it has recently been consistently working when I download new apps, not just music. Would've loved this on the new Mini too, as it would be more future-proofing once the technology gains more use.

is there a chance Apple releases the Mini w/ touch ID sometime next Spring???

A) The Retina Mini would have been the only device in those you listed where the bill of materials likely went up by a significant amount. Add to that the margins were known to be smaller than normal for an Apple product and it makes sense. Remember the mini was running on an A5 (cheap as chips for Apple right now) with 512Mb of memory and a non-retina display along with a smaller battery pack than the one that's now in the Retina version. Of course positioning would have also played a part here as they clearly wanted a nice structured price plan between the four different models and got it.

B) No chance of a refresh in spring IMO. If you look at the iPad range it's tied to the silicon, specifically the SoC. A8 likely won't be ready until September next year and at that point I'd expect the whole range to shift up to it along with Touch ID. Fundamentally I suspect that the reports of a shortage of sensors is correct and by the time the next wave of iPad's roll round that issue will have been resolved.

 

[Lindsford]

why were they able to release a Retina iPad for the same price, Retina iPhones for the same price, and Touch ID phones for the same price (subsidized at least), but not a Retina Mini for the same price????

if it included Touch ID, that would've made it more reasonable at least from a buyer's point of view, or at the very least my point of view.

at first I didn't really care much for Touch ID but after having gotten used to it on the 5S, it's very convenient when unlocking and it has recently been consistently working when I download new apps, not just music. Would've loved this on the new Mini too, as it would be more future-proofing once the technology gains more use.

is there a chance Apple releases the Mini w/ touch ID sometime next Spring???

Because they didn't use 2.5 year old technology.

 

[Altis]

I think you will see something different this go round. I believe the full sized iPad will continue to sell well, but I have my doubts about the Mini selling the way it did a year ago with a $70 price increase. As with all predictions, I may well be wrong, but I do not think that Mini sales will be record breaking.

There are a ton of people who wanted a Retina mini for the last year.

It's $100 less than the full size, sure. But it has the same specs inside, and full Retina screen. So, it's as premium as the full size is, but in a smaller form for those who simply want a smaller form.

Makes good sense to me, and it should sell decently.

And we all know those "other" ~7" tablets don't even come anywhere remotely close to the quality of the Retina Mini.

 

[rtr1985]

He's right, about the screen anyway. The Mini and Air have the same 2048x1536 resolution, giving the Mini a higher density display (326ppi vs 264, respectively.)

Is that a material difference in resolution quality? I have no expertise in this type of thing. If it is, it is enough for me to switch to an iPad Mini. Especially since it has the same features--A7, MIMO, battery life, etc. In other words, does the same resolution, with a 62ppi variance, matter one way or the other?

 

[mellofello]

I can't wait to get the air. It addressed every problem I had with my iPad 3. Too heavy, too much bezel, and too slow.

Thing is going to be beast mode. I am a android fan boy and I can't wait to replace my pos nexus 7 with this.

Most excited I have been for a apple product in a while. Also planning on snapping a 13 inch rmbp to replace my 2010 mba.

 

[s2mikey]

There are a ton of people who wanted a Retina mini for the last year.

It's $100 less than the full size, sure. But it has the same specs inside, and full Retina screen. So, it's as premium as the full size is, but in a smaller form for those who simply want a smaller form.

Makes good sense to me, and it should sell decently.

And we all know those "other" ~7" tablets don't even come anywhere remotely close to the quality of the Retina Mini.

Not totally true about other tablets not coming close to the mini. The nexus 7 is a fine product and the kindles get the job done too. Sure, they lack the very nice ecosystem apple has but let's not over state it. $400 bucks is a boatload of money for a 7.9" tablet no matter who makes it. 16GB too which is almost worthless.

 

[Altis]

Not totally true about other tablets not coming close to the mini. The nexus 7 is a fine product and the kindles get the job done too. Sure, they lack the very nice ecosystem apple has but let's not over state it. $400 bucks is a boatload of money for a 7.9" tablet no matter who makes it. 16GB too which is almost worthless.

The trouble is that the Nexus 7 is really attractive on paper, but doesn't seem to deliver in person.

The build quality isn't great, it doesn't run as smoothly, etc. Don't take my word for it, the reviews are out there everywhere. I considered getting one but there were so many cautions against it, I didn't want to get involved.

I suppose part of it is, what do you want to do with it? The kindle is nice for light browsing and reading, for example.

With all the new Apple suites available free with purchase, as well as the A7 (proven to be very top notch for a tablet), things aren't so bad.

I do wish the whole ecosystem got bumped up to min. 32 GB by now though, I sure agree with that.

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Is that a material difference in resolution quality? I have no expertise in this type of thing. If it is, it is enough for me to switch to an iPad Mini. Especially since it has the same features--A7, MIMO, battery life, etc. In other words, does the same resolution, with a 62ppi variance, matter one way or the other?

You aren't likely to notice the difference in picture quality. However, it benefits the Mini to have higher PPI because the content tends to be a bit smaller (and thus closer to your eyes). It all kind of balances out.

The Retina iPad looks great, and I bet the Mini looks amazing now too.

Too bad iOS 7 will burn your retinas and give you eye problems within 10 years...

 

[Saturn1217]

I would argue that for the iPad mini's intended purpose (at least for me) I would rather have the Nexus 7 (2013). It is more portable and easier to hold with an equally awesome screen (and it doesn't require a case). At that size I don't really care about apps. I just want a portable web browser that is easier to use than my phone.

I'm more interested in the new iPad Air (dumb name). I want a tablet that I can use for productivity instead of just straight consumption so getting a full-sized tablet that is as light as possible seems like the best compromise. I'm hoping (have never owned an iPad) that the iPad Air will be good for reading academic articles, notetaking with a stylus & playing the occasional game.

One thing I really wish that Apple would implement that I think would actually be innovative (even though it has been done already) is an active stylus. If people could replace pen and paper in every situation with an iPad and not have to worry about all the awkward workarounds you need with capacitative styluses I think every college student and many professionals would buy it day one. You know that if Apple decided to implement an active stylus it would be the best stylus ever and App developers for notetaking apps would love it. I would buy instantly even if the apple branded stylus was predictably overpriced.

 

[ThisIsNotMe]

what I don't understand is carrying along the iPad 2. I mean, I do understand it from a business perspective... they want to sell MORE iPad Air models so they'll make the alternative an antequated piece of <hardware> to force you to buy the newest and spend the money.

I wonder if this is going to become a trend. Iphone 6 release they'll announce they're stringing along the iPhone 4s or something and killing off the 5, 5s, and 5c. What they'd probably do is iPhone 6 and 5c and THAT'S IT. We will see....

interesting move by Apple none-the-less

Why would a school or business want/need to spend money on an iPad Air?

 

[Mak47]

No A7X
No Fingerprint Sensor
No new display technology (igzo)
The only differentiating factor between Air and rMini is now the display (Air might have more screen real estate but rMini comes with superior PPI)

Enough said.

1. The X series chips were a stop-gap measure to power the retina display until the standard chips would suffice. They now do, which allows a return to a smaller battery. This is not a loss of any feature, it's actually a gain in form factor.

2. No Fingerprint sensor--this would have been nice, but with all the gesture controls I'm not sure Apple is married to having a home button on the iPads permanently. Touch ID in its present form would have made moving away from it in the future very difficult.

3. No IGZO--the main benefit to IGZO is a reduction in power consumption. This is already accomplished with the A7 losing the "X" extension. Why gamble on untested tech in a flagship product if you don't have to?

4. Only differentiating feature is size--and that's a problem why? Get the one you like and don't sacrifice performance. How this is negative I don't understand.

 

[s2mikey]

The trouble is that the Nexus 7 is really attractive on paper, but doesn't seem to deliver in person.

The build quality isn't great, it doesn't run as smoothly, etc. Don't take my word for it, the reviews are out there everywhere. I considered getting one but there were so many cautions against it, I didn't want to get involved.

I suppose part of it is, what do you want to do with it? The kindle is nice for light browsing and reading, for example.

With all the new Apple suites available free with purchase, as well as the A7 (proven to be very top notch for a tablet), things aren't so bad.

I do wish the whole ecosystem got bumped up to min. 32 GB by now though, I sure agree with that.

Didn't know that about the nexus. I thought the reviews I had read were pretty good. But, I still find the best tablet experience to be apple so that's that. Agreed on what you are doing with it too. For very basic usage, the cheaper tabs prolly work fine for most folks. Once you want to game or do more serious apps then the apple ecosystem does shine.

32 GB ought to be mandatory by now....that one is a head scratcher.

 

[*~Kim~*]

When they were promoting the portability of the iPad Air, I seriously thought that they were going to drop the mini. I could see the point of the iPad Mini vs full sized, but now I can't really see the point of the iPad mini with Retina Display, never mind the original iPad mini. $100 extra for Retina display and Specs that are on par with the iPad Air? It's a no brainer.

 

[Ries]

iPad Pro

http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/23/japan-display-4k-tablet-lcd/

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Sorry, but now that both devices have the same specs, who would be interested in the larger iPad Air?

Me for one. Actually my deliberations were the exact opposite of yours. I thought now that the 10" iPad is a decent weight - just .25 or so heavier than the mini why not replace my mini with an air & enjoy more physical screen real estate.

Ultimately I decided to replace the mini with the retina mini and the iPad 3 with the Air. The mini's size is still more comfortable as a reader & the Air's size is better for being productive. I think they are both excellent & worthy upgrades -- unlike the iPad 4.

 

[alice04]

I would because i prefer the larger screen. It's that simple.

yeeeeiyz! iPad 5 larger screen and thinner. booyah

 

[fdama]

iPad "Air" and iPad mini now have the same exact specs save only for size. And the Mini is $100 less.

Seriously, who wouldn't go for the cheaper of the two? Besides, the pixel density will be higher on the Mini meaning it will look even better than the iPad Air.

Sorry, but now that both devices have the same specs, who would be interested in the larger iPad Air?

Someone like me who has the iPad mini but finds the smaller screen inadequate for reading through pdf's, technical drawings, etc, which I do a lot of. Its not a pixel density issue, but a screen size issue. This is why I will be selling my 1st gen iPad mini and getting an iPad Air. Also think about those who like to draw using their iPad using apps like Paper. I dont think any of them use an iPad mini. A larger canvas will always be superior in this case.

 

[DisplacedMic]

iPad "Air" and iPad mini now have the same exact specs save only for size. And the Mini is $100 less.

Seriously, who wouldn't go for the cheaper of the two? Besides, the pixel density will be higher on the Mini meaning it will look even better than the iPad Air.

Sorry, but now that both devices have the same specs, who would be interested in the larger iPad Air?

is this guy serious?
what do you think is the selling point of an item that has the word mini in it?

the 13" "Air" and the 11" "Air" have the same exact same specs, who would be interested in the larger Air? Surely not just for the SDslot, right?

 

[TroyBoy30]

Seriously, who wouldn't go for the cheaper of the two? Besides, the pixel density will be higher on the Mini meaning it will look even better than the iPad Air.

i wouldnt. i have a nexus 7 and hate the small screen. i want a 5-6 inch iphone and a 12 inch ipad