Comparing CPU / GPU Performance Numbers - nTB vs TB. What Are We Paying For ?

You mean you didn't read the reviews before you made your purchase choice?

Yes, there only appears to be a 5-10% performance difference between the two models for most tasks, although the ArsTechnica review did say that the 15W CPU does start to throttle under GPU load, which may or may not be an issue for you depending on the software you use.

Personally, I wouldn't be inclined to pay the extra money (AU$500 where I am) for the touchbar, and I wasn't that impressed when I tried one in the Apple store. Others may love it, or have a particular use for it (e.g. video editing) that makes it worth it - it's a personal thing.

Sure, I would prefer 4 x TB3 ports, but given the possibility of using a docking station, it's not a deal-breaker to have only 2.

I think the non-TB is the "sweet spot" for price-performance in the 2016 MBPs, but I would upgrade it to 16GB for my own use. Storage may be upgradeable later (via 3rd party SSD), but RAM is a once-only decision.

 

- 4 ports is more than two.
- the base model have to run in the turbo mode to achieve the same speed as tb mbp.
- Ram is slower in the base model.
- The base model has also slower wifi
- the base model does not have touchID

Some scores in tests isnt everything. Some other reviewer said that when editing a 4K vid with the base model, fcp was lagging and that didnt happened with a tb version.

 

I went and checked them out side by side yesterday. I favored the nTB just from reviews and personal thoughts. But when I seen and worked with the TB I thought this is really impressive. I don't use the function keys much now and I would not use the TB a lot either, but I like the idea its there and would pay the $300 to have it, along with the the 4 ports which is a big plus for me.

Thinking of waiting for the next refresh and pick up a re-furb down the road.

 

Notebook check shows the gap widening significantly when CPU and GPU are under load. The gap widens to about 15% then. Gaming is the obvious area where this most likely happens, but other professional apps that really tax the GPU would also see gains like this. If you're not going to be doing either, then the performance difference is negligible at best.

 

Ram, Wifi, CPU speed differences are all unnoticeable.

 

Could you please open this abit more? Based on what?

 

Not sure what you're referring to, looks like you barely glanced at the article.
Glad you raised your claim from 5 to 10% though.
If you'd actually done the comparison though, there are tons of scenarios where the TB outdoes the nTB by significantly more than 10%.

Overwatch:
TB: 86fps - 21% increase
nTB: 68fps

Deus Ex:
TB: 26fps - 23% increase
nTB: 20fps

Bioshock:
TB: 48fps - 16% increase
nTB: 40fps

Tomb Raider:
TB: 22fps - 23% increase
nTB: 17fps

Far Cry:
TB: 27fps - 15% increase
nTB: 23fps

Battlefield:
TB: 50fps - 14% increase
nTB: 43fps

Farming Sim
TB: 93fps - 18% increase
nTB: 76fps -

Titanfall
TB: 65fps - 15% increase
nTB: 55fps

Look, prefer whatever laptop you want, but don't make stuff up.

 

Since specs suck already when compared to windows alternatives, I would say the touch bar version has better resale value.

These Skylake chips are a year old already, prices will drop fast during next refresh.

 

Bigger question is why buy a mac to be in windows a lot...most of those have no mac client.

But that's me...I go for steam games that have mac ports...or steadily the xbone library of games grow. Bethesda letting mods in fallout 4 and skyrim SE happen...(and not locked down like PS 4, feel bad them for them since they miss out on so much) has me not missing pc master race much these days.

Also the FPS drop not that bad for some. 86 vs 68 for overwatch...68 still playable in a pinch. Not winning tourneys with that...but you aren't exactly competition level for even CS:GO on a mac anyway either.


And where TB is below 30...we can argue its like arguing its less crippled. 22 vs 17 for tombraider....that's bad frame rate regardless.

 

Demand may rise once touch bar and touch ID are utilized by more and more apps, ditching specs and every other common things that the 2 machines share (form factor, speaker, display), I hardly see how nTB 2nd hand demand could rise once its specs are fairly outdated. Plus you are thinking about selling yours in a relatively short time, I suppose there are many people thinking the same, which in turn will create more supply for nTB 2nd hand market, hence affects its value even more.

 

Your calculations are off.

86/68=1.26 26%
26/20=1.3 30%
48/40=1.2 20%
22/17=1.29 29%
27/23=1.17 17%
50/43=1.16 16%
93/76=1.22 22%
65/55=1.18 18%

 

I would also like to point out that you are paying for a $300 difference, not $400.
nTB is a MacBook Air replacement, its a 15W TDP CPU just like the one used in Air. For $300 you are getting 28W TDP CPU, a better iGPU, 2 Fans instead of 1, 4 thunderbolt 3 ports, higher clocked memory, 1 more microphone, 30% faster Wifi transmission speed (http://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-...Hz-i5-Touch-Bar-Notebook-Review.185639.0.html), touch bar and touch ID.

 

Let's be honest for a moment here:

15W CPU is enough for the majority (90%) of users. In my class alone there are 9 Mac users out of 20 students; of which 6 use Air 13", 1 MB 12", 1 a MBP 13" (2012-2015 form factor), and I'm the only one with 2016 nTB. It can run most things the 28W can run, the speed difference is minimal. Throttles? Yes, if you do CPU-intensive tasks such as video editing. Then you might as well get the 15"? Quad core with 47W TDP.

Intel 550 is like 10-15% faster than the 540. If you want gaming, again, might as well get the 15" with Radeon Pro 460 or get a gaming laptop.

What do you use all 4 ports for? It may make sense if you plug in a mouse, a charger, an SD card adapter/an external SSD, and an external monitor at the same time. Then again, just buy an adapter that has multiple ports on them.

Faster wifi. Please. Do you use 653MBit/s? 99% chance ares, you don't. It's like arguing that one car is better because it has a maximum speed of 360 km/h and the other 320km/h.

2 fans because the 28W chip uses more heat. In my defense, the lack of 1 extra fan gives more space to the 54.5W battery vs. 49W you got on the TB. And let's not begin on the battery life because we all know how nTB can get 10, up to 12 hours of battery life. The TB can get up to 8 if you're lucky.

TouchBar is a gimmick and actually slows your productivity, read from TheVerge and Ars Technica.

The only useful thing is TouchID, I give you that. Does it worth $300? Hell no.

Need portability? Get the nTB. Need power? Get 15". The 13" TB is in an extremely awkward position.

 

When does it lag? If I buy a new macbook pro and it lags with normal use, it's going back..

 

Nice straw man argument, but my original claim was that it was a significant performance boost in activities like games that utilize CPU and GPU. You disagreed, I proved you wrong.

 

To each his own. You keep saying just get the 15", 15" is a whole new laptop which is larger and heavier and much more expensive. 15" is ridiculously expensive with Radeon 460, thats like NV 965m performance, I would just get a Razer at that point. What do I use 4 ports for? I can charge in on either side of the laptop, and I love that. TouchBar may not be so useful right now, but that's where Apple is pushing forward and I wouldn't be surprised if all their major product lines come with touch bar over the next few years. But I do see how this machine doesn't make sense to you judging by how you describe your use cases, I agree that you should stick with the non touch bar version.

 

I ordered a nearly maxed out 13" TB MBP that I'm supposed to pick up this weekend. I'm OK with the extra cost over the nTB computer, but only if it delivers decent battery life in addition to its other features. I don't expect it to do as well as the TB version because of the processor and battery difference, but I do want something north of 8 hours for the work that I do. What people here are reporting for the TB MBP is all over the place, and it's still unclear whether an OS update will make a meaningful difference. But I've yet to read a comment from anyone who's unhappy with the nTB MBP. If the battery issue isn't resolved quickly, I'm going to return the computer and get the nTB version.

(As I posted this, I got an email saying my computer is ready for pick up, so I guess I'll see how it does sooner than I thought.)

 

I returned my 2.9GHz i5/8GB/Intel Iris 550 13" tMBP due to the lag. I was coming from a mid-2015 15" MBP with 2.2GHz i7/16GB RAM/Intel Iris Pro (6100). Within just a few days of usage I was finding the new 13" to become extremely choppy/laggy when switching between apps and workspaces.

Granted I'm a pretty heavy multi-tasker and I tend to run the following apps simultaneously:

Microsoft Excel (large files with millions of data points split between 8+ sheets)
Microsoft OneNote
Microsoft Outlook
Spark Email for other email accounts
Chrome (with 8+ tabs)
Safari (with 8+ tabs)
Adwords desktop Editor
Bing Ads desktop editor
Parallels + Windows 10 + 3 proprietary work apps that only run on Windows)
Skype for business
Google Play Music desktop player

I normally have those apps split up between 3 or 4 workspaces. On the 13" this usage made the computer noticeably laggy/choppy when swapping between apps and workspaces. Much more so than my mid-2015 15".

I ended up exchanging it for the 2.6GHz i7/16GB 15" tMBP. The new 15" has been blazing fast without a single hiccup, even while using a secondary 34" external monitor and the same app usage.

Since I much prefer the smaller footprint of the 13", I've considered going round two with another 13" and configuring it for 16GB RAM and either the 3.1GHz i5 or 3.3GHz i7. However, I've read that those processor upgrades provide minimal bumps in true performance. And in my use case, having the larger 8MB shared L3 cache in the quad core (vs 4MB in the dual core options on the 13") seems to be of real benefit.