Comparison: iTunes 4k vs 1080p bluray vs 4k bluray

[HarperVision]

Not really, the same rules apply as always. Back in the days we used line doublers for laserdiscs, then quadruplers, then MuseLD came along. Then DVD, HD-DVD and BluRay. Upscaling always looked better if done right. The availability of 4k made upscaling less of a requirement, but there's still a benefit in doing it. It can be done much cheaper today than back then. A cheap Faroudja doubler ran for $30k back then, Snell & Wilcox and Teranex started in the $50k range, up to $150k depending on options. Today quality scaling can be done under $10k, just not with anything that's integrated in a TV or source device. A HTPC with madVR, Lumagen or Envy are your best best. With what manufacturers are putting into TVs/projectors/players these days, I wouldn't bother... I agree.......

Hey, you forgot the venerable TAW Rock/Rock+/Rock Pro from back in the day! It was considered the Faroudja, Snell & Wilcox, Runco killer for a mere fraction of the cost.

I helped develop, market and field those bad boys back then with Phil Tuttobene, Deniz Mutlu and Mark Rejhon. It was the “MadVR Envy” of its time, only more affordable. ;-)

Are you “Coderguy” from AVS?

 

[GrumpyCoder]

Hey, you forgot the venerable TAW Rock/Rock+/Rock Pro from back in the day! It was considered the Faroudja, Snell & Wilcox, Runco killer for a mere fraction of the cost.

I helped develop, market and field those bad boys back then with Phil Tuttobene, Deniz Mutlu and Mark Rejhon. It was the “MadVR Envy” of its time, only more affordable. ;-)

Are you “Coderguy” from AVS?

Oh wow, yes. I completely forgot about the Rock. Phil was very present back in the day with it and his CRT projectors. I had a Barco 1209 back them if I remember correctly. The Rock was on my list, but I came from a Faroudja Quadrupler and at some point received pre-production Lumagen from Jim Peterson for beta testing. That must have been over 15 to 20 years ago. A lot has changed since back then, it was a really good time though. I think Curt Palme is still in full-CRT mode.

Not "Coderguy", no. Been on AVS for almost two decades now, but not very active. It's just not the place it used to be in the beginning. And many people who really brought progress in like Amir Majidimehr and Peter Montoulieu are now banned there. Amir was at Microsoft back in the day around the same time when I was doing research at Fraunhofer. I left before the first version of H.264 became a standard in 2003. That must have been around the same time when Amir and his team worked on the Microsoft alternative VC-1. Amir founded audiosciencereview later and Peter is now in the DCI-Forum, while AVS is now largely a marketing and hype platform for specific dealers/distributors. Mention anything other than Sony/JVC and lately the Christie Eclipse and the forum police will start shooting at you over there.

 

[Robin Thakur]

In addition to the quality and mastering of the 4k content/discs, the end result is all also highly dependent on the chain of devices you are watching the content on.

The TV needs to be capable of displaying decent HDR images in 4K preferably with Dolby Vision, and you need to have configured it properly. It’s also dependent on the device supplying the movie, so a decent 4K blu ray player will supply a far better picture with Dolby Vision and full atmos sound whereas an Xbox or PS5 won’t. Lastly the HDMI cable needs to be the correct standard. If you’re using an Atmos sound bar, make sure it’s connected to the tv using e-arc or you won’t be getting full atmos and ideally you’ll be using a seperate AVR which has HDMI 2.0/2.1 sockets or better and e-arc and the decent speakers to back that up. I wouldn’t like to guess the percentage of people that think they’ve setup the devices properly but actually aren’t watching/hearing what they think they are...the number of atmos soundbars I’ve seen people connecting up with optical cables or Bluetooth!!!

I was using the Xbox as an 4k disc player with a QLED Samsung 4K and I wouldn’t have ever said I saw much difference between blu ray and 4k discs previously, perhaps some nicer resolution and colour space. However I recently upgraded to an LG OLED and a dedicated Panasonic disc player and wow, the difference is very noticeable in terms of video and atmos audio.

The 4k disc versions supply a much higher bitrate for the content as others have noted, so streaming is just convenience for the moment, not for quality in my opinion. As TVs get bigger and better hopefully people start to appreciate higher quality, assuming they understand how to set these devices up optimally and manufacturers concentrate on fidelity.

It isn’t right that people that value the quality that only disc offers and have invested in the devices to display it might have to make do with poor streaming quality that compromises either dark scenes or doesn’t offer the full capabilities of atmos because companies stop producing 4K discs or it gets put into a niche category like Laserdisc back in the day. At best, it’s a retrograde step until either compression improves or internet connections do.

The blame also falls on device manufacturers for not making it easy to config all the stuff to work together, often because of copy protection or hardware standards which shift every couple of years.

 

[Macalicious2011]

In addition to the quality and mastering of the 4k content/discs, the end result is all also highly dependent on the chain of devices you are watching the content on.

The TV needs to be capable of displaying decent HDR images in 4K preferably with Dolby Vision, and you need to have configured it properly. It’s also dependent on the device supplying the movie, so a decent 4K blu ray player will supply a far better picture with Dolby Vision and full atmos sound whereas an Xbox or PS5 won’t. Lastly the HDMI cable needs to be the correct standard. If you’re using an Atmos sound bar, make sure it’s connected to the tv using e-arc or you won’t be getting full atmos and ideally you’ll be using a seperate AVR which has HDMI 2.0/2.1 sockets or better and e-arc and the decent speakers to back that up. I wouldn’t like to guess the percentage of people that think they’ve setup the devices properly but actually aren’t watching/hearing what they think they are...the number of atmos soundbars I’ve seen people connecting up with optical cables or Bluetooth!!!

I was using the Xbox as an 4k disc player with a QLED Samsung 4K and I wouldn’t have ever said I saw much difference between blu ray and 4k discs previously, perhaps some nicer resolution and colour space. However I recently upgraded to an LG OLED and a dedicated Panasonic disc player and wow, the difference is very noticeable in terms of video and atmos audio.

The 4k disc versions supply a much higher bitrate for the content as others have noted, so streaming is just convenience for the moment, not for quality in my opinion. As TVs get bigger and better hopefully people start to appreciate higher quality, assuming they understand how to set these devices up optimally and manufacturers concentrate on fidelity.

It isn’t right that people that value the quality that only disc offers and have invested in the devices to display it might have to make do with poor streaming quality that compromises either dark scenes or doesn’t offer the full capabilities of atmos because companies stop producing 4K discs or it gets put into a niche category like Laserdisc back in the day. At best, it’s a retrograde step until either compression improves or internet connections do.

The blame also falls on device manufacturers for not making it easy to config all the stuff to work together, often because of copy protection or hardware standards which shift every couple of years.

I will buy a dedicated UHD player in the coming months to replace my Series X.

I just need to do research and wait for thr one I want to fall in price.

 

[HDFan]

I just need to do research and wait for thr one I want to fall in price.

I wouldn't wait too long, depending on the model you chose. Streaming video has now surpassed blu-ray sales, and the number of 4K players on the market has dropped drastically. I just checked Amazon and there were less than 1 page of 4K UHD players listed. For some high-end models prices are flat, or increasing. I just saw a used Oppo on sale for almost $7k, >6 times the original price. As I haven't seen any mention of an 8K optical player, the 4K UHD players may represent the end of an era. I expect at some point 4K UHD players will be a niche market, like expensive turntables for vinyl disks.

 

[McMadden]

The Oppo's 205 was discontinued by he Chinese owned company to concentrate more so on cell phones if I recall. Oppo's if you find it cheap used, grab it. Next is the Panasonic UHD high end players, but an all around can't go wrong is the Sony UHD X800M2 or the mark 2. Its short fall is that you have to manually engage DV and manually disengage it when playing non DV disc. Its considered an above avg 4K player.

 

[Robin Thakur]

The Oppo's 205 was discontinued by he Chinese owned company to concentrate more so on cell phones if I recall. Oppo's if you find it cheap used, grab it. Next is the Panasonic UHD high end players, but an all around can't go wrong is the Sony UHD X800M2 or the mark 2. Its short fall is that you have to manually engage DV and manually disengage it when playing non DV disc. Its considered an above avg 4K player.

I wouldn't wait too long, depending on the model you chose. Streaming video has now surpassed blu-ray sales, and the number of 4K players on the market has dropped drastically. I just checked Amazon and there were less than 1 page of 4K UHD players listed. For some high-end models prices are flat, or increasing. I just saw a used Oppo on sale for almost $7k, >6 times the original price. As I haven't seen any mention of an 8K optical player, the 4K UHD players may represent the end of an era. I expect at some point 4K UHD players will be a niche market, like expensive turntables for vinyl disks.

I use a Panasonic 4K player but actually can’t see much difference visually on e.g. the Star Wars 4K BD vs the Disney Plus Dolby vision version, but I think Atmos is much better on the disc (as you would expect).

I’m sure I’m part of the problem here , but I actually prefer streaming for the convenience and not having to house discs for anything beyond my absolute favourites. It’s also led me to question why I buy the same sets of film every technology generation when some like Jurassic Park actually look worse in 4K now (the low res CGI effects)

 

[HDFan]

some like Jurassic Park actually look worse in 4K now (the low res CGI effects)

I may be biased (I worked for manufacturer of the computers that did the graphics), but I don't see anything particularly bad in the CGI:

 

[Robin Thakur]

I may be biased (I worked for manufacturer of the computers that did the graphics), but I don't see anything particularly bad in the CGI:

View attachment 1779898

I think it’s the low resolution of the effects elements particularly textures (I’m not sure what resolution they were rendered at originally) but the same very jarring, murky-textured videogamey feel is present on the Star Wars special editions when you watch the 4K version) such as the mos eisley scene with all the changes creatures where neither the motion or the effects look realistic.

 

[McMadden]

I believe Vincent Toeh of HDTV Test Youtube, did an analysis on the Disney Star Wars 4K episodes 4-6 that they were not true 4K but upscaled HD. As far as PQ goes, it's all relative, like Plasma had better PQ than LCD, and now OLED has better PQ than LED. The video that you may be looking at can have variables, such as TV sets not tuned to it's best picture settings, rtings.com depending on the set has basic settings for a lot of brands, digital trends as well. And pro calibration, especially if you have OLED can also determine PQ. So trying to make a long story short, your screen of choice, your UHD player of choice, [and in IMHO ultra high speed HDMI cable of choice] can effect what your final viewing experience can be. Exhibit A and B, one shows great, the other thinks it's crap. This coming from a person who use to sell Sony CRT TV and later Sony's first range of LCD TVs.

 

[priitv8]

(I worked for manufacturer of the computers that did the graphics)

So SGI? We tried to sell them here, back in the day

 

[HDFan]

So SGI?

Yep. Suckers got so hot that if the fans failed some innards might melt.