CompUSA sold my friend a used PowerBook

[jimN]

You disrespected his privacy when you first posted about his employment status with CompUSA. Basically you jumped off the bridge and realized halfway down that you made a mistake. Not to mention, it's quite obvious that you are employed by CompUSA.

We all have to hand it to CompUSA though. For a minimum wage job, they sure produce loyal employees.

That's a bit harsh, stating that someone doesn't work for a company is hardly a breach of their privacy, although saying that he did probably would be. As for the comments about loyal employees, given upperblue's knowledge of the situation he/she sounds as though they are at least working at a higher level than just sales assistant, and they have obviously been posting on these boards for a while which means we should at least give them the time of day!

Evidently there has been a degree of misrepresenation on Josh's part and some failures on CUSA's part, but it has certainly made for an entertaining thread. At the end of the day the product was not 'new' (as evidenced by the earlier registration) and for that CompUSA are undeniably at fault.

 

[gryhound]

Where's the love

No I don't work for CompUSA. I have worked in retail sales in the past. I love Macs. I shop at CompUSA because I believe they are one of the few national retailers who do a good job at selling Apple products with their Store with in a Store program. (Read Macintosh the Naked Truth) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/07...f=pd_bbs_1/002-3163810-2376813?_encoding=UTF8
And I don't have an Apple Store nearby.

Chapter 6 explains Apple's Position and why CUSA is good for Apple.

The only thing we know for certian is that out of 1000's of Macs sold by CompUSA daily one had an issue, CompUSA tried to fix it but couldn't, Apple Fixed it.

People try to scam retail companies everyday. I've personally known people (college students) who have taken advantage of return policies for personal gain. I knew one guy in my dorm who went to Wal-Mart and bought a TV at the beginning of the school year and then returned it at the end of the school year. Basically stealing the TV for 9 months. That is why Wal-Marts return policy is now stricter now than 20 years ago. Compaines have to have return policies to protect themselves from fraud. (I know your friend wasn't committing fraud but it looks like you were the victim of printer fraud)

Here is the catch 22 on your printer. You say you bought a printer got it home and it was opened with ink cartridges installed. How can a company check a return on an unopened box to make sure that is has never been opened and is new without opening it? Opening it to check it would break the seal and now the printer is used because the seal is broken. Looking the box over and seeing that the seal is intact one can assume that the printer is new.


Here's what happens:
Unreputable customer buys printer (any product for that matter) for a print job. Decides to return the printer. Knowing that there is probably a restocking fee they reseal the box and pass it off as a return on a minimum wage customer service clerk who is dealing with a million other issues. They did a good job of repackaging the product and claim it is new for their refund. The clerk then allows the product to be restocked thinking it is new. After all why would anyone return a product that is used and claim its new. Ah, the naivety....

You bop on down to the store and pickup the printer (other product) and buy it. Open it up and lo and behold its used. Now you just assume that the store has some little guy in the back repacking items as new and there is this vast conspiracy to dupe consumers that shop at big box, large retailers.

I'm sorry this happens but it does. I've seen this played out several times in my life and my brother used to work a Wal-Mart and would see it all the time. Why is there so much sealing tape on DVD's? Because people with a hairdryer and some cellophane could steal movies and return the boxes. Why can't software be returned? Because people used to take it home in the 80's copy it and return it to the store.

People are always asking me how to "steal" music and "movies" on their macs. The IT shop that I worked in I knew several people who made good money who would pirate games and software.

Apple isn't in all markets with Apple Stores and even if they were don't you think that there would be a certian set of customers that would never set foot into an Apple Store? All of you guys know who I'm talking about. The person who has no friends with Macs and all their friends are misinformed and tell them Macs are harder to use, aren't compatible etc...

Apple has to rely on national retailers to help sell their products. Overall the resellers do an excellent job. Apple needs their products in a lot more stores to combat the Windows Monopoly which I think everyone can agree.

CompUSA is a great place to buy Apple because they have embraced Apple in their stores. The stores that I have been in have a Apple Rep there that works for Apple and an Apple Shop. Does any other retailer that has such vast national exposure offer the same? This attracts Mac Loyalist and switchers.

It makes me sad to hear about the guy who went to MicroCentre to shop for his Mac but bought it elsewhere. My question to him is this... If everyone went to MicroCentre to look at Macs but never bought one there how long do you think that they would continue to sell Macs? If you go to a local retailer and they help you then give them your business. Its the right thing to do.

 

[gryhound]

I've been a member in the past

Also, I'm not really a new member but I couldn't remember my username and password so I set up another account because it seemed easier at the time.

 

[gryhound]

Huh?!?

Whoever wanted an official response then there it is.

Well looks like you assume too. My post is not any more official than yours.

 

[jimN]

Well looks like you assume too. My post is not any more official than yours.

I think that people can be forgiven for putting 2 and 2 together after your appearance, lack of previous form and rebuttal in the face of the running opinion in the thread. Regardless, these stores need to handle their returns better or they deserve to face the bad publicity.

 

[Ambo-low]

The Wrong way contrasted with the Right way

I see that there are multiple problems with your post.

1st lets get into the crux of the matter.

There is a proper chain of command to follow when dealing with retail stores and resellers to get your issue resolved. <snipped> You totally undermined your credibility in the situation by posting flames on the internet instead of letting CUSA resolve the issue.

<snipped>Why would the manager want to help you now? You have a lot to learn about human nature. But I see from your profile that you are only 22 years old so this is par for the course.

Were you there when the system was sold to your friend? Maybe your friend mis-understood the sales professional or needed the product ASAP. Obviously the manager tried helping your friend out by filling out the rebate forms and making sure all that was inorder. (Any of you reading this post ask yourself the following "How likely are you going to get help from a manager at a store in filling out rebates?")
<Snipped>.

Firstly, there are a few issues that struck a cord with me in this unfortunate story. And it is still unfortunate in that the Girl in question has still been given a soiled experience:- by being sold a pup in the first place, and then being screwed by the statements here, and then by not being compensated with a new computer.

(Steve J; if you see this thread while looking for ideas for your next keynote, do what you have done-in-kind in the past - call her up and send her a new MacBook Pro 1.8)​

Secondly, I have just experienced the other side of the coin - The right way from a similar type store here in New Zealand. I will deal with that in a moment.

gryhound; Well really...
I believe it is you and upperblue79 who have a lot to learn about human nature. Remember the important thing here is the appearance of things. From the collusive appearance of your posts I think many here, have or will, think badly of your apparent motives and therefore also of CompUSA. Your reasoned and informed, after the event statements; from your positions of age and experience, look just like like an attempt to discredit and divide a couple of kids. Hopefully they are still friends - no thanks to you. In particularly, your latter post attempts to besmirch their actions and motives and turn them into a couple of theives are despicable.

upperblue79; you in all your wriggling and posturing admit to have something to do with the store management. A pity that you did not handle the issue in a better way at the time. Now, you should pay the price for that. You have your knickers in a knot because the young lad asked for advice on this list, and it escalated quickly, to your shame. Not because the store mucked up, but because of your own words here. I assume from the statements, from the pair of you, that you knew about the thread soon after it started. A mature store manager would have just cut his losses, apologized here and said it was going to be fixed. Not thumped the kids for six over a pittance, was this years bonus at stake.

Now the RIGHT WAY, Twice over: From Apples reps in NZ and Dell NZ!!!

In November I purchased a PB 1.67 as soon as the lastest G4 revision arrived in Harvey Norman (an Australian Box store - trading in NZ).

After a week I was having difficulty with data in a Excel SS built by another person. I thought it was the SS so kept working at a fix. After two weeks I found the DVD would not boot the OS X restore CD when I tried to reformat the drive in an attempt to fix the problems so took the PB back to Harvey Norman.

The Harvey Norman manager talked directly to Apple and put in a new DVD (took a couple of weeks to get parts and fix). During the subsequencent three weeks after that repair, I found that the data was still being corrupted, so went back to Harvey Norman. They arranged a Brand New PB replacement from Apple. They were proactive with Apple NZ in both cases and actually acted on my behalf. Who knows who actually paid for the repairs and then replacements in the end, but the store worked for me, the customer, and I did not have to run too and fro fighting for my rights.

And BTW I understand that NZ retailers earn less commission from Apple NZ, a non-Apple company, than your CompUSA does dealing directly with Apple Corp.

With the PB, I separately purchased a new 2405 wide screen from Dell. It had a faulty USB and caused errors and bad interaction with both PB's and also my G4 AGP tower. One email to Dell, and I was asked to try a new USB cable, this did not work so another email got me a brand new (not refurbished) 2405 from Dell, shipped individually from Singapore, because Dell NZ only had a refurbished monitor in stock.

Interesting, that in both our situations, the time frame from purchase to breakage was about the same. And it happened to me with two different items. Both compainies here in NZ offered a better buyer experience than these kids received.

Customer service rules!

 

[Agathon]

Now the RIGHT WAY, Twice over: From Apples reps in NZ and Dell NZ!!!

In November I purchased a PB 1.67 as soon as the lastest G4 revision arrived in Harvey Norman (an Australian Box store - trading in NZ).

After a week I was having difficulty with data in a Excel SS built by another person. I thought it was the SS so kept working at a fix. After two weeks I found the DVD would not boot the OS X restore CD when I tried to reformat the drive in an attempt to fix the problems so took the PB back to Harvey Norman.

The Harvey Norman manager talked directly to Apple and put in a new DVD (took a couple of weeks to get parts and fix). During the subsequencent three weeks after that repair, I found that the data was still being corrupted, so went back to Harvey Norman. They arranged a Brand New PB replacement from Apple. They were proactive with Apple NZ in both cases and actually acted on my behalf. Who knows who actually paid for the repairs and then replacements in the end, but the store worked for me, the customer, and I did not have to run too and fro fighting for my rights.

What you failed to mention is that New Zealand has one of the most powerful pro-consumer laws in the English speaking world: the Consumer Guarantees Act of 1993.

This act is about the only good thing that the 1990s National Government ever did.

This is how it covers goods (services are also covered)

Goods

Whenever you buy a product, be it a chocolate bar, microwave oven or a car, the seller guarantees that:


- It has the right to sell the product.

- The product is not security for a loan and can not be repossessed in relation to someone else's loan - unless you are told otherwise in writing.

- The product is of an "acceptable quality". It must be fit for all purposes it might commonly be used for, have an acceptable appearance and be safe and durable. For example, if it is a chair, it must take your weight.

- It also has to be free of minor defects, unless you are told about these first.

- The product must do what the seller says it will. If you are told a watch is fit for diving and then find it lets in water, the retailer is in breach of the Act, because the watch is not fit for its purpose.

- The product is the same as any demonstration model, sample, or description of it. Mail-order goods must match their photographs in the catalogue.

- If no price has been agreed, you need pay only what is reasonable. Reasonable is a price about the same that other traders would charge for the goods.

- Manufacturers - and local importers and distributors if the products are made overseas - also guarantee to the consumer that:

- Spare parts and repair facilities will be available. They can, however, avoid this if they let you know before you buy that parts may be limited or not available.

- Their own guarantees will be honoured.

[..]

Putting it right

If something goes wrong, you have the right to insist that the seller fixes things.

Generally speaking, this means the retailer who sold you the goods or services must sort out the problem. If the stitching comes apart on your fairly new shoes, you do not have to track down the manufacturer or importer, you simply take them back to the shop. If they tell you the shoes were never much good, it is their problem, not yours.

However, if you have trouble with the seller, you also have the right to get the shoes fixed elsewhere and claim the cost from the seller. But before you do this, you should try to sort things out with the initial seller. If you get nowhere, tell them - preferably in writing - what you are going to do, and keep written records.

If the problem can not be fixed, or can not be putright within a reasonable time, or is substantial, you can:

- Reject the product or cancel the service contract and claim a full refund or replacement. ellers can not offer a credit note only. If you want cash back, you are entitled to it.

- Alternatively, consumers may claim compensation for any drop in the value of the product or service, or claim for any reasonably foreseeable extra loss that results from the initial problem. If your newwashing machine does not go properly, you can claim for laundry costs or for the cost of hiring a replacement one while the first one is being fixed.

In practice it means that if anything goes wrong, the customer has all the leverage.

I invoked this law so many times when I was back in NZ. It is basically an IWIN button in disputes with retailers. Once they understand that you understand your rights under the act, they will cave. The conversations go like this:

Them: "I don't know if our policy allows that..."

Me: "The Consumer Guarantees Act says that you have to give me my money back - in cash."

Them: "Oh. OK then."


If CompUSA was a New Zealand store, the OP's friend would probably have got a new notebook immediately.

After leaving NZ I was shocked at what retailers can get away with in other countries.

 

[jadekitty24]

Reading this entire thread I feel this is a legitimate case, meaning I don't feel the customer is trying to do something underhanded. But as stated above companies have to be strict with their return policies or else they get taken advantage of. However, I don't think this is the greatest example of how "CompUSA" sucks. You're making it seem like CompUSA was being ridiculous. If I sold a customer a product, and they tried to return it without the proof of purchase (UPC) I wouldn't blindly refund or replace the product. That is just dumb. I have had my own dealings with CompUSA, and as a result I would never recommend them to anyone. I am sorry for the girl that had to go through this, and I am sorry that CompUSA sold her a used computer at a new computers' price. That is just plain wrong. They were wrong for doing so. But to say they are wrong for initially denying a return or exchange (which was due to lack of proof of purchase) is too extreme. They were well within their rights to do so.
Just a quick example of how this "customer service" has gone so horribly wrong. My mom works at Home Depot and one day a guy comes in with a toilet seat in a garbage bag. An obviously used toilet seat. No original packaging, no receipt, just the seat in a bag. He demands a refund, because "it doesn't fit". My mom points out that it must have, for it appears used. She intially refuses his refund. He starts to throw a fit, people are staring, the manager comes over and after much excitement the idiot is given his money! My mother told me this about a year ago and I am still in shock.
Uuhhgg...

 

[iGary]

Christ; there is more drama in this thread than five gay guys out on a Saturday night.

It's a stupid chain store; the matter is resolved...

 

[weg]

Honestly tho, there is alot more to this. IF it was registered to someone else back in summer of last year thats when the official 1 yr applecare was started.

Perhaps Apple could contact the previous owner (after all, the Notebook has been registered by somebody else).
I really wish Apple would have a strict policy for such things, then there would probably be a chance to find my stolen Powerbook (which I registered) again ;-)

 

[shortys408]

I once bought a monitor at compusa. It had about 5 dead pixels so I went to exchange it. Sure enough the one I returned went right back on the shelf.

 

[cnakeitaro]

I once bought a monitor at compusa. It had about 5 dead pixels so I went to exchange it. Sure enough the one I returned went right back on the shelf.

Its just how it is in a retail center. From what I have seen and heard, alot of people will accept 5 dead pixels as a hardware defect. But alot of places, apple included, I think the number is 6. If it has no hardware defect, and you returned it within the time on the receipt for for returns, then it goes back on the shelf as brand spanking new.

Everyone does this. I remember I used to work at Gamestop, and if someone returned a brand new game, we would reseal it and put it back out for sale for full retail. FEAR the games without the SCEA seals. It's really the only way you'll know.

But I have to say, It would be really easy to tell whether or not CompUSA did this to your computer. Infact it sounds like they did from the descriptions I read about how the power adaptor and other things were packaged. In the end, this unit sounds like it was damaged before the original person returned it, and that was why it was returned. That is definitely how it sounds learning of a case deformity after she opened the box.

CompUSA is guilty of negligence in their returns department. There is no possible way I would of taken back a damaged powerbook, at the very least put it back on the shelf. But, this is also partly the fault of the buyer for not realizing the problems sooner and taking it back right away.

The seller needs to make this right, and replace this girl's powerbook. They sold her faulty merchandise and they need to take responsibility for it, even if the UPC label is missing. Its not like they are going to try and resell it, and there are plenty of other places they can get that number from. Its on her freaking receipt.

And if they play the game, that we don't know this is the unit we sold since it has no UPC, don't they record the serial #'s of the units they sell?

 

[shortys408]

dead pixels make me angry

 

[nylon]

As far as the description of the case goes, it seems clear that the UPC label was removed after the computer had been sold for a second time, as new. Since this was done, Compusa has no right to reject the return on that notion alone (i.e. after the fact).

If I was spending $2500 on a machine, it better be new and unused. It is unethical and illegal to sell used merchandise as new. The law is on the side of the consumer in this case.

 

[Clix Pix]

It makes me sad to hear about the guy who went to MicroCentre to shop for his Mac but bought it elsewhere. My question to him is this... If everyone went to MicroCentre to look at Macs but never bought one there how long do you think that they would continue to sell Macs? If you go to a local retailer and they help you then give them your business. Its the right thing to do.

I'm the one who mentioned that. Oh, I quite agree with you about people going into one store and spending a lot of time there, with or without a sales associate, and then leaving without purchasing and instead buying from either another store or from some place online. People do this a lot, I suspect, especially when it comes to buying expensive items; it is really a shame because the online retailers are definitely sucking business away from local brick-and-mortar stores. That was not my intent nor was it how things actually evolved in the scenario I mentioned.

Actually, I have bought plenty of stuff, including computers, at Microcenter in the past. That particular day I went in there for something -- ink cartridges, I think -- and while I was there, because I was already beginning to think about buying a Mac, for comparison purposes I decided to look at all the new computers. I looked first at the various PC desktop systems, then looked briefly at the laptops. I then headed to the section of that store where they have all their Apple-related products. I sat down at the table where they have the computers set up and studied the screen. The clean desktop with the dock at the bottom amazed me. How could anybody DO anything? Where were all their icons? My own PC at home has a desktop measled with icons. Now I look at it and laugh. Anyway, then I tentatively touched the keyboard and started experimenting.... this was really the first opportunity I'd had for hands-on with a Mac because at the Apple store the sales associates had always been right there, eager to show me how everything worked instead of leaving me to just play with the thing myself. That afternoon at Microcenter, time passed.... I continued figuring out different things....no sales associate came anywhere near to inquire if I needed help or had any questions. I never saw one in that section of the store the entire time. Maybe they were short-handed that day or something. Whatever....

I was still very much in the "on-the-brink" phase of this decision and I had only just then worked with a Mac long enough to make it more and more of a possibility that I would buy one. I still wasn't ready to make a commitment at that point so that even if a sales associate had come by I would have not said, "yes, I'll take one!"

A few days passed. I kept on reading MacRumors and kept thinking about "should I?" but still had not made up my mind. What finally did precipitate my taking action was the announcement of the then-new iSight iMacs. I learned of this on MacRumors but it wasn't until the next day that it occurred to me that more than likely prices would be dropped on the Rev B models. That evening I got in the car and drove right to the Apple store.

So that's how it all transpired. I didn't deliberately go in to Microcenter that day shopping for a Mac and take advantage of their display and their sales associates and then purposely go elsewhere. Yes, I hope that Microcenter does continue to maintain a section of the store for Apple products and I hope that they keep it well-stocked and that they have a sales associate available right there in that section to help people so that they actually WILL sell some Macs.

 

[shortys408]

At the apple store near me they encourage you to use and play with the computer and never try to show you things unless you ask.

 

[jadekitty24]

Christ; there is more drama in this thread than five gay guys out on a Saturday night.

Which is why you can't stop yourself from posting...

 

[Krevnik]

Here is the catch 22 on your printer. You say you bought a printer got it home and it was opened with ink cartridges installed. How can a company check a return on an unopened box to make sure that is has never been opened and is new without opening it? Opening it to check it would break the seal and now the printer is used because the seal is broken. Looking the box over and seeing that the seal is intact one can assume that the printer is new.

Here's what happens:
Unreputable customer buys printer (any product for that matter) for a print job. Decides to return the printer. Knowing that there is probably a restocking fee they reseal the box and pass it off as a return on a minimum wage customer service clerk who is dealing with a million other issues. They did a good job of repackaging the product and claim it is new for their refund. The clerk then allows the product to be restocked thinking it is new. After all why would anyone return a product that is used and claim its new. Ah, the naivety....

You bop on down to the store and pickup the printer (other product) and buy it. Open it up and lo and behold its used. Now you just assume that the store has some little guy in the back repacking items as new and there is this vast conspiracy to dupe consumers that shop at big box, large retailers.

I'm sorry this happens but it does. I've seen this played out several times in my life and my brother used to work a Wal-Mart and would see it all the time. Why is there so much sealing tape on DVD's? Because people with a hairdryer and some cellophane could steal movies and return the boxes. Why can't software be returned? Because people used to take it home in the 80's copy it and return it to the store.

Yup, and it gets more interesting, those who are the second victim (the person who gets the used product) is subjected to scrutiny by the large retailer as the potential scam artist. So really, the only winners even now are those who know how to scam the system. Sad but true.

 

[Ambo-low]

What you failed to mention is that New Zealand has one of the most powerful pro-consumer laws in the English speaking world: the Consumer Guarantees Act of 1993.

In practice it means that if anything goes wrong, the customer has all the leverage.

After leaving NZ I was shocked at what retailers can get away with in other countries.

Yes the CGA 1993 is a good thing, and has some bearing on expectations that customers and sellers have toward each other, however it is mostly for private individuals and does not offer the same protection to business purchasers.

One thing I have always failed to understand about USA practice is that you can only return an item if it has the UPC number attached, but at the same time you have to send the original UPC code in to get a rebate for items that are part of the sale package.

This seems to me like giving with one hand and taking with the other. Surly the real proof of purchase is the sales receipt/invoice.

 

[balamw]

One thing I have always failed to understand about USA practice is that you can only return an item if it has the UPC number attached, but at the same time you have to send the original UPC code in to get a rebate for items that are part of the sale package.

What's hard to understand? Rebates are a scam rigged in favor of the retailer.

1. Rebates get more people to buy an item since they factor the rebate into the "price" of the item.
2. A lot of people "forget" to submit the rebate in time -> more $ for the store
3. They cut down on returns since you usually no longer have complete packaging and they can't refund you the whole price (since you are waiting for your rebate). Occasionally you might be able to get an exchange, but that is unlikely too...

B

 

[drift1492]

Funny off-topic Comp usa story:

I went their with my girlfriend a while back because I wanted to see a new imac in person. Well we went our separate ways in the store and shopped for about 30 minutes. When we left she told me how helpful they were. I thought this was funny because I didnt even talk to any of their employees. Well it turns out that every single guy working there, including the manager, went up to her asking if she needed help in a span of 30 minutes. And yet, not a single one asked me if I needed help. Gotta love that!

 

[Jovian9]

It's a stupid chain store; the matter is resolved...

Exactly

But if it were me, and I had to go through all this trouble.....I'd expect a little more than a $50 stick of RAM........maybe RAM and a gift card to the store to get me to shop there again.

 

[iSaint]

Funny off-topic Comp usa story:

I went their with my girlfriend a while back because I wanted to see a new imac in person. Well we went our separate ways in the store and shopped for about 30 minutes. When we left she told me how helpful they were. I thought this was funny because I didnt even talk to any of their employees. Well it turns out that every single guy working there, including the manager, went up to her asking if she needed help in a span of 30 minutes. And yet, not a single one asked me if I needed help. Gotta love that!

Did she understand why she received such good customer service?

 

[SkiierGuy]

CompUSA sold me a USED PowerBookPro as NEW

In March, 2007, well before CompUSA closed the majority of their stores, I had purchased a 17" Mac PowerBookPro. It was marked down as a "manager's special." I asked if there was anything wrong with it and was told it was a "new machine" that someone bought recently and returned after "just a couple days." I was told it was still being sold as a new machine complete with "full warranty."
After several months, the computer started to have serious issues. It was brought to an Apple Store which did the repairs within warranty. When we brought it in, we thought it was strange that they asked for proof of purchase, which we provided, but they did the repairs anyhow. It was then brought in for a 2nd repair, which was also done. Then recently, when we went to purchase AppleCare before the "1 year of ownership" was up, we were told by Apple the machine had been previously purchased, registered and used back in August, 2006, and Apple would not allow an AppleCare registration. As a matter of fact, an Apple rep' asked where it was bought, and made a comment that sounded as if this was not the first they have heard of something like this happening involving CompUSA, and even went so far as to suggest contacting CompUSA AND my credit card company.
I e-mailed CompUSA for what is was worth. Since they divested the majority of their "brick-and-mortar" stores (they only have a handful left in operation) and put the majority of their sales operations online, I didn't expect a reply based on the facts that I presented them. I have thus far contacted my credit card company hoping they'll do something since I was fraudulently sold a completely used machine as "new". I will also be contacting the Massachusetts Attorney General for possible action.
I'm wondering how many others have run into this issue.
I'll try and keep this thread posting updated as things hopefully progress.