blairh
macrumors 604
Those journalists are idiots. I'm not kidding either. The ridiculous logic I hear coming out of some of their mouths (or what they write) blows my mind sometimes.
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Concerns about the 11.6 Macbook Air
- Thread starter silverfrancis
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Those journalists are idiots. I'm not kidding either. The ridiculous logic I hear coming out of some of their mouths (or what they write) blows my mind sometimes.
Hellhammer
Moderator emeritus
Well, some of us may think that <13" laptops are netbooks because that's how most of them are called. When people call it netbook, they often refer to the screen size. There is no "right" name for it as it's an opinion question.
I would call it an ultra-portable (because of it's dimensions and weight compared to other netbooks) high-end (because of the specs and price) netbook (because of the screen size). Yes, IMO ultraportable high-end netbook is the best word to describe 11" MBA as it tells you most of its features.
blairh
macrumors 604
"Netbook" to me always alludes to underpowered. That's just my opinion and I know a lot of people share it. I'll never call anything running a C2D a netbook. 11" MBA is the very definition of an ultra-portable.
iCheddar
macrumors 6502a
@ blair.harringto
The trouble with many journalists is that they're forced to pander to the non-informed crowd. While the authors at say Tech Crunch or Engadget write for informed nerds, the authors for Laptop Mag or Mac Life write for the unwashed masses.
What is especially unfortunate is that the writers for traditional media are generally given more respect than writers for new media. It's this huge gap - mainstream writers are given more credibility but are less informed, niche writers are given less credibility and are far more informed and insightful.
The trouble with many journalists is that they're forced to pander to the non-informed crowd. While the authors at say Tech Crunch or Engadget write for informed nerds, the authors for Laptop Mag or Mac Life write for the unwashed masses.
What is especially unfortunate is that the writers for traditional media are generally given more respect than writers for new media. It's this huge gap - mainstream writers are given more credibility but are less informed, niche writers are given less credibility and are far more informed and insightful.
It's not a matter of opinion (I don't think there's a word opinional btw), it's a factual one. Netbooks had too distinct characteristics when they were launched, and hence the coined the term netbook: a. ultra low cost, b. minuscule keyboards, c. underpowered (amongst other things) None of these apply to the air.
The air also has a direct precursor in the powerbook g4, which can't be called a netbook, because the term wasn't even available then. The new air as it's successor can't all of a sudden have jumped on a new class of products.
So, the macbook air 11.6 is factually not a netbook. Of course it's accepted and understandable if people compare it to one, or call it one in casual conversation, because we now what they might be refering too and in everday parlance we are not factual. But the actuality, the undisputed one, is that it's not a netbook, anymore than emate, or the pbook 12" or ibook 12" were netbooks. They weren't, and the 11.6" isn't. It's a thin and light notebook or an ultraportable one. Period.
Hellhammer
Moderator emeritus
c. Small display. That applies to 11.6" Air
Things change all the time. 12" PowerBook is the current 13" MBP. It wasn't common that a laptop had 17" screen back in the days of PB G3 for example. All G3s were 14", that was the high-end back then. Nowadays 15" is pretty average and <13" screens are mostly seen in netbooks.
IMO:
<13" = Netbook
~13" = Small laptop
~15" = Normal/average laptop
~17" = Big laptop
We all have a different definition for word "netbook". For me, it brings up a picture of a laptop with <13" screen, thus 11.6" MBA is netbook for me, but a very good one (thus the ultraportable high-end netbook).
It doesn't matter what people call it, the actual computer is still the same. When I use the word netbook with MBA, I'm just referring to the screen size.
gwsat
macrumors 68000
I finally understand your point. Your disagreement with those of us who believe that the 11 inch MBA is not a "netbook" is based on a disagreement about what is a netbook. Apparently, you believe that a "netbook" doesn't necessarily have to be cheap and underpowered, it just has to have a very small screen. From this, it seems to me that you would also have called the iconic old 12" Powerbook G4 a netbook. If so, OK, to each his own, you are entitled to your opinion.
Fair points, and, like I said, in common parlance I wouldn't have a problem if someone told me I am going to get "apple's netbook", I would point out it's not a netbook per se, but I would understand what the other meant.
However less than 13" isn't netbook as you say, it's ultra portable. And that's not just the case with apple, see what toshi call their devices, ultra portables. They have a separate category for netbooks. These are in the general category of thin and light to which the netbook is part of. Netbooks which came upon when asus decided to create an ultra cheap compromised thin and light ultra portable. I bought the original asus, and it's now gathering dust somewhere, I don't even know where I put it. The lines then blurred a bit with better models but it was still a marketing term to call these netbooks more than anything, and more than anything for the uninformed consumer who would hear the buzz word and where ultra portable would mean nothing to them in terms of hype.
Also you missed my point on the powerbook. It's anachronistic to go back and re-name a machine with a term that wasn't available at the time. Let me give you an example, suvs and jeeps are converging apparently. But you can't go back and call a landrover circa 1970's an suv. And nowadays there are landrovers that are suv's but there are some that are still bona fide jeeps. Similarly the powerbook's descendant that is the new air is a bona fide small notebook, not a netbook.
Plus if you call it a netbook you run the risk as someone so cleverly said here of voiding the warranty because Steve hates netbooks. 😀
People getting worked up over what they want to call it is rather silly. Who really cares, we all have opinions, there is no written in stone definition of what a netbook is, and I promise you anyone that wants to justify why they spent a grand or more will call it one thing and those that find it overpriced or to small for their needs will call it a netbook.
Opinions are why we have forums and as the ol saying goes... "opinions are like a$$holes.. everyone has them". End of story that's all it is.
The 11" MBA does exactly what I want it to do so far, if I run into an issue due to CPU power I have 44 more days to decide before swapping if I so choose to do so at Best Buy. The biggest concern I have so far is if I can deal with 5 hours of battery vs the 10+ I have been used to via the iPad and even the 7+ on the 13" MBP I had used last year. So far it has no issues as far as performance for my needs, I'm sure some need more power and storage/ram etc... that's why we have tons of choices to buy whatever we want.
To those that want or have the 11" just enjoy the fact it's a great computer that happens to come in a very small, thin and lightweight package. Plenty of power for the average, every day user. Enjoy!
Opinions are why we have forums and as the ol saying goes... "opinions are like a$$holes.. everyone has them". End of story that's all it is.
The 11" MBA does exactly what I want it to do so far, if I run into an issue due to CPU power I have 44 more days to decide before swapping if I so choose to do so at Best Buy. The biggest concern I have so far is if I can deal with 5 hours of battery vs the 10+ I have been used to via the iPad and even the 7+ on the 13" MBP I had used last year. So far it has no issues as far as performance for my needs, I'm sure some need more power and storage/ram etc... that's why we have tons of choices to buy whatever we want.
To those that want or have the 11" just enjoy the fact it's a great computer that happens to come in a very small, thin and lightweight package. Plenty of power for the average, every day user. Enjoy!
Yeah well sure, but this is not a matter of opinion it's a matter of fact.
When the ceo of the company producing the product says he hates netbooks, that they don't make netbooks, his device is an ultra portable laptop as his prior powerbook was, it's not as if it's just another opinion.
Let alone all the other arguments others and myself mentioned above as to why this is a matter of fact not opinion.
This is as much a netbook as the ipad is a big ipod touch. If people want to view it this way, you can't do anything cause as you said well opinions are like .... and everyone has one, but it's quite distinct to what it is factually. And that's the end of story.
Yup, it's either a netbook or an ultraportable.
But it can't be both.
So take your pick.
PS. Someone mentioned the loose hinge problem on the 11.6" model.
I checked 3 display models at a local apple store and all of them seemed to have hinges that were much looser than the MBPs. Could be an issue for many people down the road.
But it can't be both.
So take your pick.
PS. Someone mentioned the loose hinge problem on the 11.6" model.
I checked 3 display models at a local apple store and all of them seemed to have hinges that were much looser than the MBPs. Could be an issue for many people down the road.
b11051973
macrumors 6502
I'm browsing this thread on my new 11" MBA right now. I have no problems with the screen. I already have a 13" MB, that I'll be selling, and a 24" LCD connected to my Windows 7 PC. So, I was used to going from a huge screen to a smaller one. I don't find this 11" screen to be all that much smaller than the 13" one I'd used for years. You need to scroll more, but the two finger swipe on the trackpad works so slick.
to give us a rough impression, how many lines of text are available on any one screen on the browser? (with a decent zoom in level, not ant letters)
I've played with the new 11.6 Air and can say that it really doesn't have that terrible of a page view. I use a 12" PBook while I'm on the road with the same vertical pixels and have found that, yes, I scroll more... but that doesn't mean it is detrimental to use. It is still quite good! 🙂
NickFalk
macrumors 6502
Well, there's certainly a bit more scrolling going on. But then again, how often are you actually able to see the whole webpage on a single screen? In most cases this would require a screen with a 4:40 ratio or something...
hmmm.... but not that terrible of a page view isn't really a compliment is it?
ReallyBigFeet
macrumors 68030
Totally agree.
The people so adamantly denying that the 11" is NOT a notebook are the same ones who bristled with righteous indignation that the iPad was NOT a big iPod Touch.
It's simply a matter of someone needing justification for their purchase and/or the very typical Apple fans' need to be considered different and elite. To associate the device with a common designation is to somehow besmirch the brand and therefore the owner as well.
By any mainstream measure, Apple just entered the high end Netbook market. And I'm thankful they finally have.
What are you trying to say that the ipad IS a big ipod touch, and people are only justifying their purchase by not calling it one. If you said that a few months ago when so many people didn't get it, I 'd say ok, it's expected, not everyone can understand new tech paradigms, but to say this now, it's insane.
I think you are rationalizing your non purchase of either of these devices, or at least you are projecting what you would do, and myself maybe, and others. It's an expected dynamic this type of rationalization, it just doesn't apply here, because factually the ipad is a new generation of touch tablets and not a big ipod touch, and the air is not a netbook.
Also like I said, it's kinda stubborn and inexplicable to insist here when the very company that makes it vehemently and adamantly have insisted that they do not make netbooks, because they don't. They didn't when they released the 12" powerbook, and they don't now when they updated it finally. Besides the factual differences of the full keyboard, the quality construction, the fast cpu, the precedent of the ibook and powerbook etc. etc. and what the very same company that makes it classifies it as, you insist on your own take. Be my guest, but don't also insist that you are correct and others are just rationalizing their purchase. That's stretching it way, way too far.
If it weren't for the C2D processor, I'd call it a netbook too. Atom (and Ion) processor's are one of the main components that make up a "netbook."
Whoever's deciding to call this a netbook because of the 11.6" size is simply uninformed. But then again, this is the type of consumer Apple targets, which is why we have so many posts about "the apple netbook" from potential customers here. lol
Anyway, what's up with the loose hinge problem?
Whoever's deciding to call this a netbook because of the 11.6" size is simply uninformed. But then again, this is the type of consumer Apple targets, which is why we have so many posts about "the apple netbook" from potential customers here. lol
Anyway, what's up with the loose hinge problem?
The editor of laptopmag.com, one of the foremost laptop sites on the net, clarifies why a netbook is different than a 11.6 ultra portable.
At about 1.10. Browse ahead too for an interesting discussion on laptop needs, screen sizes etc. And no, I am not on the payroll of Gene for his podcast. 😀
http://www.technightowl.com/podcasts/nightowl_100925.mp3
At about 1.10. Browse ahead too for an interesting discussion on laptop needs, screen sizes etc. And no, I am not on the payroll of Gene for his podcast. 😀
http://www.technightowl.com/podcasts/nightowl_100925.mp3
ReallyBigFeet
macrumors 68030
Might wanna check my sig before you jump the shark there....
What I'm saying is exactly what I'm saying: People bristle at classifying the new MBA line (particularly the 11" models) as "netbooks" because that somehow 'cheapens' the device or lowers the status that is allegedly transferred to the owner by having such a device.
This was the same thing witnessed by the early iPad adopters who bristled when anyone called it a "Bigger iPod Touch" that somehow that wasn't an appropriate name since the iPod Touch was way, way different.
The iPad IS and WAS a "Bigger" iPod Touch, taking all the best features of that device, almost verbatim, and super-sizing it. The larger size made it far more usable to a new class of users, and even more 'acceptable' to these individuals, but there was very little 'new' with the iPad. It just made it more acceptable and fashionable for adults to carry one and use it publicly.
I own a netbook. I hate carrying it and using it on an airplane or in front of clients. I'm very comfortable with my own self-image but when I use it I feel like I'm typing on a children's Vtech "cheap-ass" computer. I don't like how it looks as an accessory to my business image. I don't like what it says about me or my tastes. It looks cheap, it feels cheap and it works cheap. The MBA, from a specification level, isn't going to give me a whole lot in accretive value versus my cheap-ass Dell Mini. But it will LOOK so much better and therefore FEEL so much better to me while using it, particularly in situations where I want that feeling of higher perceived value. My business clients will see it and maybe view me differently as a result; perhaps as having 'refined' tastes, as being 'different because its a Mac' and, in many situations, may even find it 'cute' and therefore soften my image (I'm a tall big guy...sometimes makes me rather intimidating to some of my female clients).
The difference here is that I've no issues calling it a netbook, or calling my iPad a "big iPod Touch," from a technical perspective. They both are just that. But then again, I'm pretty comfortable with myself, including the more shallow aspects of my personality.
If anything, I give mad props to Apple for such a successful marketing campaign, allowing them to market things that have such a high perceived value relative to their competitors when, in fact, the sum of their parts seldom provides a value that comes anywhere near to this 'perceived' value. The Apple Tax so widely discussed here and elsewhere not only embraced by we consumers, but actually personalized and voraciously defended as an extension of our own personalities.
I'll be happy with my new 13" MBA Netbook that will be here this week. It will likely replace some of the surfing I do with my really big iPod Touch. I still find surfing forums like this one difficult with the iPad as my big fat fingers can't focus on tiny navigation numbers without constantly zooming the screen.
But I'll still be calling it a high-end Netbook. Because thats exactly what it is. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...its a duck. Apple logo or not.
If it walks like a cat, and meows like a cat, and roars like a tiger it's a tiger.
I read your sig, so I am sure you are aware of Paul Simon's song call me Al:
I can call you Betty
And Betty when you call me
You can call me Al.
So call it what you may, it's not that big a deal.
I was just making the point that factually it's not correct. It's as correct as calling an ipad a big ipod touch, as a correct as calling a limo a large estate car.
It's contrary to what the company that makes it classifies it as, it's contrary to what other manufacturers classify similar devices (toshiba say), is contrary to what it's predecessor the powerbook g4 was, it's contrary to most of the specs of almost all netbooks, and it's contrary to what laptop pro's such as the one in the podcast I posted classify it as a: 11.6 ultra portable notebook.
I read your sig, so I am sure you are aware of Paul Simon's song call me Al:
I can call you Betty
And Betty when you call me
You can call me Al.
So call it what you may, it's not that big a deal.
I was just making the point that factually it's not correct. It's as correct as calling an ipad a big ipod touch, as a correct as calling a limo a large estate car.
It's contrary to what the company that makes it classifies it as, it's contrary to what other manufacturers classify similar devices (toshiba say), is contrary to what it's predecessor the powerbook g4 was, it's contrary to most of the specs of almost all netbooks, and it's contrary to what laptop pro's such as the one in the podcast I posted classify it as a: 11.6 ultra portable notebook.
ReallyBigFeet
macrumors 68030
No, its not.
I can show you just as many classifications of netbooks, by very well entrenched industry analysts, who would firmly put the MBA in the netbook category.
You can throw up all the podcasts you want and point for point I can find an industry analyst who would take the same machine and classify it as having a "netbook" feature set.
Steve said he didn't want to make a cheap and underpowered netbook. Well guess what? He addressed the cheap part.
