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Considering a 15" MBP, but... (MBP vs Thinkpad)
- Thread starter Coswyn
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I also considered the T410 and T510. A great unit and I loved the docking station, the build quality and the features. The one thing that really put me off was the location of the fan on the left rather than all fans at the rear. Having previously used laptops with fans at the left (which often toasted my attached peripherals or books) or the right (which often cooked my hand whilst using a mouse), I eventually got myself a MBP 15". Also another thing they don't often show in laptop pics is the underside as some laptops have fans/vents there which defeats the object of being called a 'lap'-top.
Although the MBP doesn't have a 'nipple' in the middle of the keyboard, it does however have an awesome trackpad. Not sure whether this is a good trade-off but I never used them on my previous laptops anyway.
Although the MBP doesn't have a 'nipple' in the middle of the keyboard, it does however have an awesome trackpad. Not sure whether this is a good trade-off but I never used them on my previous laptops anyway.
One thing I wish Apple would steal from the Thinkpad design is the way the body and the display match up when closing the lid. The edges of the Thinkpad are beveled and "mate" when you close the lid. This prevents anything from sliding inbetween the display and they body. It's also great because the bevel makes for a nice hand rest. When using my MBP the sharp edge against my hand when using the trackpad is annoying.
To be fair that depends on your distro and inclination - these days most linux users don't need to do those things unless they actually want to.
However, with machines in the class I was looking at being based on a new architecture (the long-awaited Arrendale) I figured that there would likely be some teething troubles with linux, so at least a few hours of searching for fixes and patches. Against that, tweaking a new UI (OSX) to my tastes is likely to cost me at least as much time
I'm sure I'll at least stick a linux VM on it anyway.
A black hard case might make it less recognisable.
I'd like black also, but it would only make the white logo stand out more...
Linux has the last two of these. I know that the resizing from one corner only is going to annoy me, because it did back in the days of the 68000-based Macs.
I've literally no use for the delete key (always used backspace, never seen point), but with you on PgUp/PgDn.
You're not alone. And if we think for a second how many 15" MBP sales that would cannibalise, we can guess how likely that is to happen.
I also found myself choosing between those two machines (15" MBP vs X201s), so am mildly relieved that I'm not the only person to come up with this particular shortlist
In the end the HR 15" display settled it for me, though I was leaning that way before the refresh was announced. But Lenovo also made it easy by removing the X201s from their UK website (I guess they're having supply problems).
In the end the HR 15" display settled it for me, though I was leaning that way before the refresh was announced. But Lenovo also made it easy by removing the X201s from their UK website (I guess they're having supply problems).
I have an XP desktop and a MBP laptop and I go back and forth between them without issue. Honestly I never liked the Vista interface and imo it is confusing. XP was always highly functional for me and rock stable. So far OSX 10.6.3 appears to be likewise and is a good bit prettier.
As far as laptops are concerned I think the current crop MBP are head and shoulders above their Windows based competition from a design and overall performance standpoint with the possible exception of the HP envy which I think is a distant 2nd.
For any type of advance graphics work I wouldn't even contemplate a screen size less than 15". The HiRes MBP 15 should have everything you need. I regularly have the 17" MBP resting on my lap or chest when I am in bed and it doesn't feel the least bit bulky or heavy to me. So I think you'll be more than fine with the mobility of the 15" MBP
As far as laptops are concerned I think the current crop MBP are head and shoulders above their Windows based competition from a design and overall performance standpoint with the possible exception of the HP envy which I think is a distant 2nd.
For any type of advance graphics work I wouldn't even contemplate a screen size less than 15". The HiRes MBP 15 should have everything you need. I regularly have the 17" MBP resting on my lap or chest when I am in bed and it doesn't feel the least bit bulky or heavy to me. So I think you'll be more than fine with the mobility of the 15" MBP
I have an x200 and absolutely love it. Rock solid performance and nearly indestructible. I also have an i7 15" MBP and I'm enjoying it as well. So in conclusion, just buy both.
I've been loving my X200 tablet for about 6 months, but I am going to put it on eBay for sale after receiving my i5 15". Been trying to get down to one computer for some time...
Go with the Mac
I've had three Thinkpads over the past 9 years. Tomorrow I will have my first Macbook Pro when it arrives at 10:30am. And I can't wait. Have never "loved" my Thinkpad. But have loved my iMac and all the Apple products that I have ever owned.
I've had three Thinkpads over the past 9 years. Tomorrow I will have my first Macbook Pro when it arrives at 10:30am. And I can't wait. Have never "loved" my Thinkpad. But have loved my iMac and all the Apple products that I have ever owned.
So far this thread has very fair responses. I'm impressed. I too have always been a big Thinkpad fan. I've been using them since the early Pentium I days. My last one I bought is a T60, and it's been a bullet proof machine. I too was a x-windows user, though with FreeBSD before moving to a Mac.
Right now I'm on a new 17" i7. I'm going to miss my IBM's. They have a character all to themselves and have been a reliable work horse in the corporate world. As the OP said, that track point (or whatever it's called) is amazing once you spend enough time getting used to it. It becomes second nature and is among the best input devices eve to grace a laptop.... at least until now. IMO the large touch pad on these new MBP's COMBINED with the Better Touch Tool (which for all intents and purposes gives you unlimited programable gestures) is an EPIC WIN. It, as well as my magic mouse with the BTT has completely changed navigation for me forever.
Mike
Right now I'm on a new 17" i7. I'm going to miss my IBM's. They have a character all to themselves and have been a reliable work horse in the corporate world. As the OP said, that track point (or whatever it's called) is amazing once you spend enough time getting used to it. It becomes second nature and is among the best input devices eve to grace a laptop.... at least until now. IMO the large touch pad on these new MBP's COMBINED with the Better Touch Tool (which for all intents and purposes gives you unlimited programable gestures) is an EPIC WIN. It, as well as my magic mouse with the BTT has completely changed navigation for me forever.
Mike
I have a T61 and just bought the new i5 mbp. I've been using windows ever since 95 came out and never touched a mac until last month.
It's a PHENOMENAL change! If you're worried about not being able to do something that windows can, don't be...i've had zero problems switching over.
The thinkpad will last you. I felt fully comfortable tossing it on my bed from over 5 feet with the screen open, knowing that nothing will happen to it. 80% of the time, I'd carry it from the screen instead of the base when it was open, fully knowing that nothing would happen to it.
I don't have that feeling with the macbook pro, but the new OS(to me) made up for everything. It takes what windows 7 is doing(which i liked) and makes it 10x better, and smoother. Any GUI stuff you want to do to windows slows it down, but the OS on mac is soooo clean and smooth from the get go.
Really...make the switch. You've never heard any complaints from mac users about the OS but you've more than likely have heard numerous complaints about windows
It's a PHENOMENAL change! If you're worried about not being able to do something that windows can, don't be...i've had zero problems switching over.
The thinkpad will last you. I felt fully comfortable tossing it on my bed from over 5 feet with the screen open, knowing that nothing will happen to it. 80% of the time, I'd carry it from the screen instead of the base when it was open, fully knowing that nothing would happen to it.
I don't have that feeling with the macbook pro, but the new OS(to me) made up for everything. It takes what windows 7 is doing(which i liked) and makes it 10x better, and smoother. Any GUI stuff you want to do to windows slows it down, but the OS on mac is soooo clean and smooth from the get go.
Really...make the switch. You've never heard any complaints from mac users about the OS but you've more than likely have heard numerous complaints about windows
@ Coswyn
I'm a longtime ThinkPad AND PowerBook/MacBook Pro user. I've used a laptop as my main computer for years. The fair way to approach this is _not_ compare. These are two very different Operating Systems. If you have lots of patience you will grow to enjoy the Mac. It's no different than learning anything else new. Just don't expect it to happen in a few days. I'm platform neutral & enjoy Linux, Mac, & Windows 7. They all have their pros & cons. I too really like ThinkPads TrackPoint. When you switch to a touch pad you're going to be much slower & less precise until you acclimate. This may frustrate you. Apples is the best, yet you're going to have to learn it. So it's buyer beware as always.
I'm a longtime ThinkPad AND PowerBook/MacBook Pro user. I've used a laptop as my main computer for years. The fair way to approach this is _not_ compare. These are two very different Operating Systems. If you have lots of patience you will grow to enjoy the Mac. It's no different than learning anything else new. Just don't expect it to happen in a few days. I'm platform neutral & enjoy Linux, Mac, & Windows 7. They all have their pros & cons. I too really like ThinkPads TrackPoint. When you switch to a touch pad you're going to be much slower & less precise until you acclimate. This may frustrate you. Apples is the best, yet you're going to have to learn it. So it's buyer beware as always.
I went from a uMBP 13" to a Lenovo T400s and never looked back. This thing is absolutley amazing. Great battery life, screen is super bright, super thin and light weight (3lbs!). I still have my iMac for other duties. But for anything portable, the Thinkpad is holding its own and then some.
hahaha!! I literally do this ALL the time to my t61... Its built like a tank! I also hold it open by one corner of the screen when walking around the house and not once have i ever felt like it was going to break...
So far this has probably been the most FAIR thread i have read through regarding MAC VS PC machines... People often throw all PC laptops into a bunch saying they have poor build quality, flimsy, etc... but thinkpads are DEFINITELY not in the same boat as an HP or some other piece of junk PC and its comforting knowing that their are MAC people who recognize this. Im glad the fanboyism has, for the most part, been left out of the thread!
Anyway, after all this discussion, it's still going to be a tough choice to make for me... I guess ill just have to go to the apple store some more and play around with a MBP some more.
I feel like such a flip flopper.. went from canon to nikon and now considering a Mac over PC!! hahaha!
guys i need help, next year i'll be enrolling in college for computer science and i'm confused with which macbook pro i should buy, the high end 13'' with C2D or te low end 15'' with i5..! please if there's any developer over here or web designer try to guide me with the ideal machine for a computer science student ! thank you 
I feel like if you moved to the Mac, the only thing you'll miss is the trackpoint. The Mac trackpad is great, but I still use a mouse for pixel-precise work. I require that precision maybe 10% of my computing time, so I don't mind hooking one up, but if you rely on Photoshop precision for the majority of your computing time and rely on the trackpoint to do so, I'm not so sure switching to a Mac will give you much of a productivity boost.
On the other hand, while the Mac trackpad isn't as precise a trackpoint, it's far better than any PC trackpad I've ever used. I prefer it over a mouse when I'm not working pixel-deep. I also find OSX to be more keyboard shortcut friendly than Windows, so whether I have access to a mouse or not, I use it for pushing pixels and little else. It becomes a tool for editing images and that's about it.
If you're not in a hurry, you could always buy a used MacBook, mess around with how you feel about the platform and the missing trackpoint, and sell it right back with little loss in resale to trade up to the 15" i7 Hi-Res AG dream machine.
On the other hand, while the Mac trackpad isn't as precise a trackpoint, it's far better than any PC trackpad I've ever used. I prefer it over a mouse when I'm not working pixel-deep. I also find OSX to be more keyboard shortcut friendly than Windows, so whether I have access to a mouse or not, I use it for pushing pixels and little else. It becomes a tool for editing images and that's about it.
If you're not in a hurry, you could always buy a used MacBook, mess around with how you feel about the platform and the missing trackpoint, and sell it right back with little loss in resale to trade up to the 15" i7 Hi-Res AG dream machine.
hahaha!! I literally do this ALL the time to my t61... Its built like a tank! I also hold it open by one corner of the screen when walking around the house and not once have i ever felt like it was going to break...
So far this has probably been the most FAIR thread i have read through regarding MAC VS PC machines... People often throw all PC laptops into a bunch saying they have poor build quality, flimsy, etc... but thinkpads are DEFINITELY not in the same boat as an HP or some other piece of junk PC and its comforting knowing that their are MAC people who recognize this. Im glad the fanboyism has, for the most part, been left out of the thread!
Anyway, after all this discussion, it's still going to be a tough choice to make for me... I guess ill just have to go to the apple store some more and play around with a MBP some more.
I feel like such a flip flopper.. went from canon to nikon and now considering a Mac over PC!! hahaha!
This is the most fun thread that Ive commented on in the past 7-8 months in the macrumors community (still waiting for my first MBP15 (matte) to arrive) - finally people that know what they're talking about and have some *perspective*.
BTW I have to admit i cracked the corner of my Thinkpad T60 - i had removed the battery (which would have provided support) and feel on the ice with the Thinkpad in my empty backpack. It still works, but there's a slight crack (2cm) in the base - It was easy to find a spare part by contacting IBM support and even in rip-off-Norway the base assembly is only about 110usd from Lenovo.
But I realise I'm going to have to treat my MBP with slightly more care (no lifting up by the corner of the screen.)
guys i need help, next year i'll be enrolling in college for computer science and i'm confused with which macbook pro i should buy, the high end 13'' with C2D or te low end 15'' with i5..! please if there's any developer over here or web designer try to guide me with the ideal machine for a computer science student ! thank you
This is a *really* common question re: 13 or 15" for college. I would say that either processor is fine for a CS degree (how many million line programs or 100 000 LUT FPGA designs will you be compiling?) - it's games and pro video that affect choice of gfx card.
On a semi-unrelated note, there ARE page up and page down keys on the MacBooks and MacBook Pros. Page up is fn+up, page down is fn+down, home is fn+left, and end is fn+right. Apple removed the labeling to give the keyboard a cleaner look, just as it had removed the number pad. Steve and co. probably figured that no one used them or something.
Thanks, but just to nitpick those are key combinations - i wish they just had the keys. Not labelling them is counterproductive IMO
Google Apple Wheel (onion) and you see why I dislike Jobs' reducio ad absurdum sometimes...
hahaha!! I literally do this ALL the time to my t61... Its built like a tank! I also hold it open by one corner of the screen when walking around the house and not once have i ever felt like it was going to break...
So far this has probably been the most FAIR thread i have read through regarding MAC VS PC machines... People often throw all PC laptops into a bunch saying they have poor build quality, flimsy, etc... but thinkpads are DEFINITELY not in the same boat as an HP or some other piece of junk PC and its comforting knowing that their are MAC people who recognize this. Im glad the fanboyism has, for the most part, been left out of the thread!
Anyway, after all this discussion, it's still going to be a tough choice to make for me... I guess ill just have to go to the apple store some more and play around with a MBP some more.
I feel like such a flip flopper.. went from canon to nikon and now considering a Mac over PC!! hahaha!
On another note, I've dropped my T61 a good 3 feet with the screen open and nothing happened to it but a minor crack in the frame, which really doesn't effect anything anyways. I know if I drop my MBP from any distance it would not be pretty, the screen is so fragile and the aluminum body wouldn't be the same.
But once again, the MBP experience makes up for it all. The OSX really really makes up for the computer's durability. You'll use windows because you need to, but you'll use mac osx because you want to.
I feel like if you moved to the Mac, the only thing you'll miss is the trackpoint. The Mac trackpad is great, but I still use a mouse for pixel-precise work. I require that precision maybe 10% of my computing time, so I don't mind hooking one up, but if you rely on Photoshop precision for the majority of your computing time and rely on the trackpoint to do so, I'm not so sure switching to a Mac will give you much of a productivity boost.
On the other hand, while the Mac trackpad isn't as precise a trackpoint, it's far better than any PC trackpad I've ever used. I prefer it over a mouse when I'm not working pixel-deep. I also find OSX to be more keyboard shortcut friendly than Windows, so whether I have access to a mouse or not, I use it for pushing pixels and little else. It becomes a tool for editing images and that's about it.
If you're not in a hurry, you could always buy a used MacBook, mess around with how you feel about the platform and the missing trackpoint, and sell it right back with little loss in resale to trade up to the 15" i7 Hi-Res AG dream machine.
You will NOT miss anything about a window's mouse. The new multitouch is PHENOMENAL. It recognizes 10 fingers at once, and there's programs out there to utilize literally EVERY combination of fingers to do anything you could possible want. I click with 3 fingers to refresh the page. the new inertial scrolling is awesome, it makes dealing with long pages ZERo hassle! I could use 5 fingers and program every variant of 5 fingers to do a different function.
personally.. the one thing I will miss the most about osx is expose. I really like using the hot corners in osx..
for everything else. I feel that windows is the equal or better (just from my personal viewpoint)
In all my time using mac osx, I never got used to the way it installs programs and how it organizes files.. it just felt like more work to keep organized and hard to understand. I never really mastered osx in the 4 years I was using it, the way I did with windows..
I get confused when things are too simple. Maybe that's why I like the "complexity" of windows because I understand it better.. it just makes more sense to me..
I still like both though.. OSX is fun to use but I feel like I get more work done on windows and it's less frustrating for some reason. One day I'll come back though.. I'm real interested to see the new mac pro.
for everything else. I feel that windows is the equal or better (just from my personal viewpoint)
In all my time using mac osx, I never got used to the way it installs programs and how it organizes files.. it just felt like more work to keep organized and hard to understand. I never really mastered osx in the 4 years I was using it, the way I did with windows..
I get confused when things are too simple. Maybe that's why I like the "complexity" of windows because I understand it better.. it just makes more sense to me..
I still like both though.. OSX is fun to use but I feel like I get more work done on windows and it's less frustrating for some reason. One day I'll come back though.. I'm real interested to see the new mac pro.
Add another Macbook to the mix for a current thinkpad user
My situation is similar. I've been very happy with my current T60. I use it extensively every day as my primary workstation in my role as an IT architect.
In my case the decision came down to one of convenience and flexibility. I could have bought a new thinkpad, but I've been in this business over 25 years, and frankly chasing viruses is the last thing I want to do on any given day, I'm also sick of the bloatware that now comes with windows pc's. I first used a mac in the mid 80's, and with the new macbook pro, I have a workstation that can be easy to use for personal stuff (pics, browsing, ebooks), and flexible enough to plug in at any client site (Windows XP, or 7) running on a vm.
I'm impressed with the mac customer service and build quality, and hope to have a long term good experience with my new Macbook Pro.
I've been a unix admin in my career, and I look at OSX as an opportunity to dust off some of my rusty skills. (vi.. lol) as well as a great platform for some R&D with new products. (My current client is a Solaris shop, and I can easily fire up a Solaris VM to play with Java tools if required).
Interestingly, in Canada, there isn't such a big price difference between Lenovo and Macbook when you configure them with equivalent hardware features. If you go through the config website, lenovo now nickle and dimes u to death on every option. (20.00 for bluetooth ?? wtf??)
My work is primarily documents, visio diagrams, and other architectural stuff around IT, so the Macbook is gonna be a great fit with MS office for compatibility...
NOW, if I wasn't so tainted by my experience supporting vista around my house, I may have considered a new Pc, but I'm happy that I can move to a Mac and do everything I need or want to do on it.
by the way, I'm still using xp on the thinkpad. None of my clients have moved off yet, and probably all will jump straight to windows 7 on their corporate workstations.
I loaded my new 15" I7 with a SSD, optibay, and 8 gb ram. Can't wait to fire it up and pass the Thinkpad off to my kids for a gaming and youtube, and maybe occasional homework device. LOL.
good luck with your choice.
FYI. I wouldn't touch any of the HP, or toshiba notebooks with a 10 foot pole, Acer or ASUS maybe, and possibly dell, but have no recent experience with dell stuff, my last one was an old inspiron 4100 I used before the thinkpad.
I also appreciate, the rational discussion found in this thread, rather, than the ritual internet spouting of biased positions by uneducated, biased individuals looking to justify their most recent purchase.
My situation is similar. I've been very happy with my current T60. I use it extensively every day as my primary workstation in my role as an IT architect.
In my case the decision came down to one of convenience and flexibility. I could have bought a new thinkpad, but I've been in this business over 25 years, and frankly chasing viruses is the last thing I want to do on any given day, I'm also sick of the bloatware that now comes with windows pc's. I first used a mac in the mid 80's, and with the new macbook pro, I have a workstation that can be easy to use for personal stuff (pics, browsing, ebooks), and flexible enough to plug in at any client site (Windows XP, or 7) running on a vm.
I'm impressed with the mac customer service and build quality, and hope to have a long term good experience with my new Macbook Pro.
I've been a unix admin in my career, and I look at OSX as an opportunity to dust off some of my rusty skills. (vi.. lol) as well as a great platform for some R&D with new products. (My current client is a Solaris shop, and I can easily fire up a Solaris VM to play with Java tools if required).
Interestingly, in Canada, there isn't such a big price difference between Lenovo and Macbook when you configure them with equivalent hardware features. If you go through the config website, lenovo now nickle and dimes u to death on every option. (20.00 for bluetooth ?? wtf??)
My work is primarily documents, visio diagrams, and other architectural stuff around IT, so the Macbook is gonna be a great fit with MS office for compatibility...
NOW, if I wasn't so tainted by my experience supporting vista around my house, I may have considered a new Pc, but I'm happy that I can move to a Mac and do everything I need or want to do on it.
by the way, I'm still using xp on the thinkpad. None of my clients have moved off yet, and probably all will jump straight to windows 7 on their corporate workstations.
I loaded my new 15" I7 with a SSD, optibay, and 8 gb ram. Can't wait to fire it up and pass the Thinkpad off to my kids for a gaming and youtube, and maybe occasional homework device. LOL.
good luck with your choice.
FYI. I wouldn't touch any of the HP, or toshiba notebooks with a 10 foot pole, Acer or ASUS maybe, and possibly dell, but have no recent experience with dell stuff, my last one was an old inspiron 4100 I used before the thinkpad.
I also appreciate, the rational discussion found in this thread, rather, than the ritual internet spouting of biased positions by uneducated, biased individuals looking to justify their most recent purchase.
I have to mostly agree with you. Windows has a more intuitive feel for me (which I largely attribute to the familiarity that I've gained with it over the years) therefore I feel more productive with it. Mac OS, while beautifully clean and fluent in many of its operations, seems more like a general use environment. Maybe I need more experience with it, though.
I've been thinking about it and have decided that a larger [than the X201s] notebook is better. 12" is too small for my needs, 13" is doable, 14" is ideal, and 15" is doable as well.
I considered the ThinkPad W-series, but the W510 is a bit of a clunker for me (the T510 as well), which writes the W701 off as an option as well. I've been considering the T410/s, but I have two serious issues with it: (1) the screen resolution is on the low side - WXGA+ (1440x900) is acceptable for a 13" in my opinion, but a 14" should have WSXGA+/HD+; and (2) the construction quality is below that of previous T-series ThinkPads (particularly when IBM ran the show). If the next 14" T-series model Lenovo produces has a higher-resolution display and construction quality comparable to the T43p (my last ThinkPad) or X301 then I will seriously consider it, but until then Lenovo will not get my business. Speaking of which, if Lenovo upgrades the X301 sometime this year (with an i5/i7 ULV) I may consider that as well.
On the Apple side, while the 15" MBP is enticing, it's a touch too big - if I had to compromise and go an inch above or below 14" I would go below. On that note, the only thing that could happen to lead me to choose Apple over Lenovo at this point (other than a 14" MBP, which is purely wishful thinking) is if Apple released a high-resolution antiglare option on their 13" MBP (and, ideally, though not necessarily, upgraded the processor to an i3/i5/i7). Not counting on it, but I hope they come to their senses and decide to satisfy their customers with one.
Thanks for the input and food for thought, everyone.
I considered the ThinkPad W-series, but the W510 is a bit of a clunker for me (the T510 as well), which writes the W701 off as an option as well. I've been considering the T410/s, but I have two serious issues with it: (1) the screen resolution is on the low side - WXGA+ (1440x900) is acceptable for a 13" in my opinion, but a 14" should have WSXGA+/HD+; and (2) the construction quality is below that of previous T-series ThinkPads (particularly when IBM ran the show). If the next 14" T-series model Lenovo produces has a higher-resolution display and construction quality comparable to the T43p (my last ThinkPad) or X301 then I will seriously consider it, but until then Lenovo will not get my business. Speaking of which, if Lenovo upgrades the X301 sometime this year (with an i5/i7 ULV) I may consider that as well.
On the Apple side, while the 15" MBP is enticing, it's a touch too big - if I had to compromise and go an inch above or below 14" I would go below. On that note, the only thing that could happen to lead me to choose Apple over Lenovo at this point (other than a 14" MBP, which is purely wishful thinking) is if Apple released a high-resolution antiglare option on their 13" MBP (and, ideally, though not necessarily, upgraded the processor to an i3/i5/i7). Not counting on it, but I hope they come to their senses and decide to satisfy their customers with one.
Thanks for the input and food for thought, everyone.