Considering buying a new or new used car

[puma1552]

If you only plan on keeping the car for a few years, why don't you lease?

It's not for me. I like having control of when I unload the car and I like to pay it down knowing I'm paying it down to own it. I also don't like to worry about mileage and if I want to mod it, I can without any hassle. If I want to get rid of the car after five years, I can, if I want to get rid of it after 10 months, I can; I would hate to be stuck in a lease right now with my Jetta and have over two more years with it. Problem with leasing is that you are on the dealers terms for when you get into a new car. If your lease ends at a time that isn't really financially good for you, you don't have a lot of options - I always wondered how that worked if you were unemployed at the time your lease ended, you'd have to turn in the car and scrape some cash together and buy a beater whereas if I am paying to own the car at least I know that I considered being able to make the payment on unemployment when I bought the car should that happen, so that I can at least keep the car through unemployment to have dependable transportation to get to job interviews. When I buy, I can hold onto the car until a cool new model is released or until incentives are better or what have you; I'm on my own schedule.

All those things aside, no matter how awesome the car was, just knowing I was leasing it would be so unsatisfying, knowing I am not paying towards owning it.

Leasing works for some people or businesses who can write it off, but I'm not a fan. Even though I can lease a $50k car for the payment price on a car half that, it just leaves me unsatisfied since I'm just renting it on the dealer's terms.

 

[Tsuchiya]

The new 2-series is shaping up quite nicely.

228i with the 240 horsepower, 258 pound-feet 2.0-liter turbo four starts at $33,025.

http://jalopnik.com/the-bmw-2-series-is-the-most-appealing-bmw-in-a-long-ti-1452159869

 

[puma1552]

The new 2-series is shaping up quite nicely.

228i with the 240 horsepower, 258 pound-feet 2.0-liter turbo four starts at $33,025.

http://jalopnik.com/the-bmw-2-series-is-the-most-appealing-bmw-in-a-long-ti-1452159869

Yep, I saw that unveil the other day. I agree, while the M 235i is basically a monster (out of my price range) even the base 228i does 0-60 in 5.4 seconds which is plenty quick for a daily driver that is light, tossable, and has a 50/50 weight balance.

I'm thinking a 228i with M sport will get you 80% of the M235i fun for a lot less cash. Option pricing hasn't been announced yet, but my ideal 228i would have Msport (~$2500), heated seats ($500), sunroof ($1050), lighting package ($900), metallic paint ($500, rolleyes) and that's about it. That puts you at about $38.5k, around $36k or so after negotiation I would imagine.

The only concerns are the price of the Msport package (~2500 should be the max, would like to see it at ~$1900, if it's $3k then it's a rip off), and the price of the lighting package. On the 3 series the lighting package is $900 which to me is fair, but then on the 1 series they force you to get the premium package if you want lighting which pushes you to spend an asinine $4500 if you want xenons. If they do that, the 2 series is automatically out, I won't buy a car without xenons and I won't give my money to BMW if they are going to be too greedy like that; forcing that kind of bundling of packages full of stuff I don't want just to get one package that is a requirement for me doesn't sit well with me.

The car does look to have good numbers though. I like the interior, but I haven't fully decided on the exterior. The 1 series looked great because it was designed to have the pug look and the car was styled for it's size. The 4 series coupe has the wide, long, low, sleek look and looks great. But I kind of feel like the 2 series is an attempt to force 4 series styling in a 1 series size, and the result ends up looking a little tall and squished; I'd like the roof line to be a little lower on the 2. The other issue with the 2 is that the taillights will need to grow on me. I do think the front end looks good, though the lack of connection between the headlights and kidney grills almost makes the car look a little outdated already, like it needs a mid cycle refresh.

Most likely when the car shows up in person I will like it a lot more though, but optioned the way I want is definitely putting it towards the high end of the budget even with negotiation.

Right now I think the CC and the 2 are my two most serious options. Would absolutely love a new Mustang but again the last day to order is December/January and the insurance for me is $120 a month compared to about $80 for pretty much everything else, which kind of sucks since I'm 29 and I have had zero accidents ever and have only had two minor speeding tickets, the last of which was 2005 and neither of which are on my record. But then again, from experience with my wife backing into a pole, my insurance company pulls through when you need them unlike a lot of cut rate policies.

 

[kellen]

Look into a CPO 3 series, 2-3 years old. Gets you the regular warranty for a year to two plus the CPO for another 2 years. Picked mine up for roughly 60% of original MSRP.

I would be hesitant to own a first production model from BMW. Currently drive a 2009 328xi 2 door manual that has been excellent for 2 years.

 

[shinji]

According to Consumer Reports, Audi is now #4 in reliability.

http://www.theonio http://www.cnbc.com/id/101148312

 

[AustinIllini]

According to Consumer Reports, Audi is now #4 in reliability.

http://www.theonio http://www.cnbc.com/id/101148312

Now if only they weren't such a bitch to fix...

----------

Look into a CPO 3 series, 2-3 years old. Gets you the regular warranty for a year to two plus the CPO for another 2 years. Picked mine up for roughly 60% of original MSRP.

I would be hesitant to own a first production model from BMW. Currently drive a 2009 328xi 2 door manual that has been excellent for 2 years.

You'll spend a lot of money on a CPO once something on the car breaks. Maybe you'll get lucky and nothing will break, but I have a hard time justifiably buying something used and not Japanese.

 

[kellen]

You'll spend a lot of money on a CPO once something on the car breaks. Maybe you'll get lucky and nothing will break, but I have a hard time justifiably buying something used and not Japanese.

Thats quite a blanket statement. Don't see why you would spend a lot of money if something breaks, thats why there is a warranty. While it isn't as complete as a new car warranty, it is 40% the price of a new warranty. 20k saved then you get an extra 2 years extended warranty is worth it to me to have a shorter new car warranty.

 

[puma1552]

So I figured I'd update this, as I've made a decision and put in an order for those who didn't see in the latest purchase or car pic thread.

A week ago today I put in a special order for the following:

-2014 Mustang GT Premium Coupe
-Sterling Gray Metallic
-401A Interior Upgrade (Black/Cashmere)
-Automatic
-Brembo Brake Package
-Comfort Package
-Shaker Pro Audio

Car should be here in April sometime. I'll share details of the deal since I don't mind. Car stickers for $41,365, but even as a special order I currently have the price down to $34,478, which is invoice minus $3500 in current rebates minus $750 from a brochure coupon. The coupon will expire before the car comes in, but the dealer locked it in. Also, I get the better of rebates either at time or order or time of delivery, so $34,478 is the worst case scenario - if the rebates go up, I'll get those, if the rebates go down, I'll get the rebates from the time of order.

Also for my trade, I'm breaking even there. The dealer appraised the car a couple weeks back for $17,250 with 16,800 miles, which was high KBB trade value, and they said they would not go below $17,000 (and put it in writing and signed off on it) when my new car comes in as long as I don't exceed 20,000 miles…so it looks like by the time the new car comes in I will likely be getting a bit more than high trade.

All in all I should be careful to say too much as the car isn't in my garage yet (who knows, factory could reject the order since we are down to the last month of orders or it could fall off the truck (seen it happen) or for some reason we may not get approved which I can't imagine being the case based on income and credit and the fact the new car isn't that much more per month but who knows) but so far I've been extremely happy with the dealer, the sales guy, and the entire process, and the pricing. Getting about $7k off a special order and high trade or maybe a little more isn't too shabby.

 

[Synchromesh]

The Mustang GT is a pretty cool car. There are only 2 issues I see here.

1. I think the 2015 is going to be a refresh, why buy the old car? At least wait until they come out so you can get a discount if you must have a '14
2. you're buying a fast rwd muscle car. Why would you want to purchase that with a damn automatic? I never got that. If you want comfort - buy automatic. If you want fun and sport buy manual. Otherwise it's like inviting a beautiful woman to your house while she is on her monthly visit from Mother Nature.

Personally I'm not a huge fan of these but out of the list you put out on the first page it or the 370Z would be my choice too.

P.S. you'll probably still take a bath on the VW. I would sell it by yourself. There are plenty of mmm... VW enthusiasts? who want a diesel wagon Jetta.

 

[NukeIT]

I am a VW guy but if you want something fun why not a GTI or R32??

 

[prostuff1]

Congrats on the new car.

I'm not a huge fan of the look of the Ford, but to each there own. I would have likely gone with the 370Z.

For a daily driver though... I would not have picked any of those. I would have gone with something that got good MPG and was relatively useful, especially seeing as you have a summer fun car you drive around already.

I don't have to "like" my daily driver vehicles to drive them. They just have to be reliable and get me from point A to point B in relative comfort.

 

[yg17]

Good luck with the RWD Mustang in the winter.

 

[maflynn]

Good luck with the RWD Mustang in the winter.

Many people I know who own a mustangs or other sports cars, tend have other vehicles for the winter.

Why be down on the OP anyways, he seems happy that he ordered what he wanted.

OP, I think that's a great car, good luck on your order.

 

[puma1552]

The Mustang GT is a pretty cool car. There are only 2 issues I see here.

1. I think the 2015 is going to be a refresh, why buy the old car? At least wait until they come out so you can get a discount if you must have a '14
2. you're buying a fast rwd muscle car. Why would you want to purchase that with a damn automatic? I never got that. If you want comfort - buy automatic. If you want fun and sport buy manual. Otherwise it's like inviting a beautiful woman to your house while she is on her monthly visit from Mother Nature.

Personally I'm not a huge fan of these but out of the list you put out on the first page it or the 370Z would be my choice too.

P.S. you'll probably still take a bath on the VW. I would sell it by yourself. There are plenty of mmm... VW enthusiasts? who want a diesel wagon Jetta.

I really don't like the 2015 Mustang, and orders for 2014s stop at the end of March and I've never seen my exact configuration on a lot, so I'd have to settle for what's on a lot if I waited until the '15s are out. As it stands I'm at $6900 off sticker for a special order and I'll get the car right off the truck before the dealer has a chance to swirl it in the prep process. There were lots of reasons not to buy a '15, which I covered in the latest purchase thread when someone asked why I didn't go for the '15:

1) 1st model year bugs
2) Ford is taking out some standard features (like xenons) and you'll again have to pay for them as options
3) Hate the black plastic sideskirts
4) The '15 is going to look dated within its own body style after 3-4 years when they do a mild facelift/refresh...by buying a 2014, I know I got what in my opinion is the very pinnacle of the 2005-2014 years, and I'll only ever compare my car to others of the same bodystyle and I'll always feel I got the best...if I bought a '15, I'd just end up envious of later S550 cars as they get better features/options put back in and they give them a facelift (see #3 above, they WILL paint those sideskirts in a refresh at some point)
5) Generally just don't like the look of the new one no matter how much I look at it. Interior is nice, exterior is really ehhhh to me
6) Deals on the '15 will suck for quite a while. I special ordered my '14, got high trade for my current car, and am currently sitting at $6900 off sticker for the new one which is great for a special order compared to something on the lot that they are motivated to move. That said, if rebates go up when the car comes in, I'll get those so I could save more (and if rebates go down/get worse I have my current ones locked in).

Ultimately I might like the S550 when it gets to the end of its model run and goes through a couple facelifts, but I LOVE the '14 as it sits inside and out all around. I think the S550 will be a tremendous performer and a great car, but right now I'm in loooove with the '13/'14 cars.

As for the manual, there are WAY too many people having problems with the MT-82, which was the nail in the coffin. I went back and forth for a while on manual or auto but the fact is I've been there, done that with my '98 GT in traffic 5 days a week. Either tranny I get, there will be days where I wish I had the other, but I think I'd have more days wishing I had the auto than I would wishing I had the manual. The auto is a stronger transmission as well. The only thing for has done to address issues on the manual is add an additive, which isn't doing anything; I've seen far too many people having one week old cars back at the dealer for shifting issues. Don't want to deal with it.

As for my Jetta, it's a gas sedan, not a diesel wagon. I could sell it myself but most buyers don't want to deal with buying from a private party when a lien is involved, that makes it tricky. Plus when I consider the ~$1200 in tax savings by trading it in (in MN you only pay tax on the difference between trade and new car), that effectively makes it the same as selling it privately for $18,300-$18,500, whereas dealership asking prices right now are around $19,100-$19,500 for an SEL w/Nav around my mileage and are negotiable from there. So selling privately really isn't worth it.

I am a VW guy but if you want something fun why not a GTI or R32??

Just don't do it for me, plus the new GTI will have a bunch of bugs too being a first year car. Plus all of the same first year issues listed for the Mustang above.

Good luck with the RWD Mustang in the winter.

Won't be a problem, my Jetta's the only FWD car I've ever had. Always had RWD cars, like the rest of people did for the first 70 years of automobiles before FWD showed up.

Many people I know who own a mustangs or other sports cars, tend have other vehicles for the winter.

Why be down on the OP anyways, he seems happy that he ordered what he wanted.

OP, I think that's a great car, good luck on your order.

Thanks, I got exactly what I wanted and still got a great deal considering it's a special order. I'll get exactly what I want, and I'll be able to intercept it right off the truck still covered in plastic before the dealer can even prep (swirl) it, so I'm pretty thrilled. I actually just got my VIN this morning.

 

[Synchromesh]

As for the manual, there are WAY too many people having problems with the MT-82, which was the nail in the coffin. I went back and forth for a while on manual or auto but the fact is I've been there, done that with my '98 GT in traffic 5 days a week. Either tranny I get, there will be days where I wish I had the other, but I think I'd have more days wishing I had the auto than I would wishing I had the manual. The auto is a stronger transmission as well. The only thing for has done to address issues on the manual is add an additive, which isn't doing anything; I've seen far too many people having one week old cars back at the dealer for shifting issues. Don't want to deal with it.

Ah, this is why I don't buy American. If they can't get something major like manual transmission to work properly why even bother? To me a car without a manual is just an appliance. I don't even look at them when buying no matter how good the price is.

 

[puma1552]

Ah, this is why I don't buy American. If they can't get something major like manual transmission to work properly why even bother? To me a car without a manual is just an appliance. I don't even look at them when buying no matter how good the price is.

You mean like how BMW cant design a high pressure fuel pump to save its life, leaving you flat out stranded on the side of the road?

EDIT: I suppose this is also the appropriate place to point out that the MT-82 people are having issues with is a Getrag transmission, same brand as many European and Japanese cars. And this is also probably the place to point out that the auto which has no problems, is an American transmission built in Flat Rock, Michigan.

 

[AustinIllini]

Ah, this is why I don't buy American. If they can't get something major like manual transmission to work properly why even bother? To me a car without a manual is just an appliance. I don't even look at them when buying no matter how good the price is.

people in glass houses...

The Germans can't get anything to hold together more than 75,000 miles outside of Porsche. The Japanese are tops in reliability, but at least American cars are fixable on a modest budget.

 

[Synchromesh]

people in glass houses...

The Germans can't get anything to hold together more than 75,000 miles outside of Porsche. The Japanese are tops in reliability, but at least American cars are fixable on a modest budget.

I never said I buy German cars either. I do not. They're overweightm overpriced and unreliable. That's why Japanese cars are the best. As for fixing them - yes, you have to spend on some of them but at least they don't nickel and dime you to death.

But you don't have to convince ME. I already know and I'm not the one looking for a car here.

 

[puma1552]

Order is moving right along...no build date yet but I got a VIN last Thursday and just got an ETA of April 5th!

 

[AustinIllini]

Order is moving right along...no build date yet but I got a VIN last Thursday and just got an ETA of April 5th!

Congrats!!

 

[shinji]

Order is moving right along...no build date yet but I got a VIN last Thursday and just got an ETA of April 5th!

Very nice, puma. I'm sure you'll love it.

 

[Nabooly]

Edit: NVM....congrats on the purchase!

 

[maflynn]

Order is moving right along...no build date yet but I got a VIN last Thursday and just got an ETA of April 5th!

Nice, of course the month of March is probably going to be the slowest month on record for you

 

[puma1552]

Nice, of course the month of March is probably going to be the slowest month on record for you

Haha it is, I'm now waiting for the window sticker to pop up online, I was told it would be online on or about the 12th so still a few days of nothing I suppose.

I've had a lot to keep me busy though and seem to have something to look forward to every week, be it regarding the car or otherwise so time isn't going by as slow as I thought which is nice. The ETA of 4/5 is actually a little earlier than I was hoping since at this rate the roads will still be sloppy then, but Im fully expecting the ETA to get pushed back to mid-April. But if it does show up on time, that's pretty nice and puts me at 6.5 weeks from order to delivery which is about as fast as can be expected. I've got to restock on some detailing supplies and pick up a couple small goodies for the car for when it shows up.

Waiting for this car also kind of breaks up the 5 month slog from New Year's to Memorial Day, since I'm getting to that point where I could use some time off.

 

[puma1552]

As of this morning the window sticker is up which is the most exciting part up to now, this thing is cruising and still has an ETA of 4/5. The "Blend Date" is St. Patrick's Day, which I've heard numerous definitions for what that is. Ford CS tells me that is the day it finishes production, which indicates it will start rolling down the line this Friday (morning time based on another number on the window sticker) and should roll off the line on Monday. I've seen conflicting things from Ford though that seem to indicate actual production takes place about a week after the blend date, so I'm a little bummed I'll never know for sure what day it is rolling down the line while I'm here at work, but I'm glad to see that in either outcome the car will not be built the day after St. Patrick's Day when everyone is hungover, lol.