Considering Returning my Retina MacBook Pro

[JasonR]

Same reason Apple has come out with Retina – to improve the experience of using these devices and to move technology and innovation forward.

If you don't care about your work and who will use your designs, don't bother with 2x images. Having a scalable (CSS3/vectors) website is something you should be doing anyways – if not you're doing it wrong.

Lol so you're saying you should design everything in Vector format when browsers only render pixel images? LOL

Like I said...show me how people are utilizing their workflow to create "retina" quality graphics on their websites.

I don't need to get into an internet pissing match. The retina display on the Macbook Pro is a cool, novelty item for now. Most web browsers are on older, outdated technology as most people don't adopt tech early like people on this site do.

The only question I really need answered is if it's feasible to design for the web/UI on the Macbook Pro Retina. I haven't seen a solution, and others in the same business as I have the same issue.

 

[goMac]

Isn't the right answer that if you're a designer, and your designs look blurry, that you need to fix your designs?

Retina displays are only going to get more common, not less. Your artwork looking blurry is going to be a fault of your artwork, not your machine.

 

[heyimandy]

First people complain about how they will be disappointed if no retina display machines show up at WWDC. Then they show up and complain again. It never fails.

 

[ranviper]

Thing is, people said the same thing about the MBA when it was released, and we all know how mainstream that is. Heck, the original MBA had a battery rated at like 300(?) cycles. Unless folks vote with their wallets and don't buy them Apple will continue to make them. That said, I fully expect that the sheeple will continue to buy them only for the status of having the latest and greatest.

Since I personally unplug from a 27" monitor at home and carry the laptop to work where I replug to a 27" monitor it's not the choice for me, but each and every person's mileage varies.

Yes, and Apple won't advertise they macbook's complete and utter uselessness as far as doing ANYTHING yourself, so the vast population won't even know, until they go to buy a new batter and "oops." It's just ridiculous. Apple is getting greedy, maaaad greedy. "What's that sir, you want an upgrade to 8GB of RAM? Ok, that will just be another 2 grand for a new macbook." No thanks.

Edit: and people are voting down my points based on what? lol. Sorry that apple decided to make you users even more dependent on them. I'll stick with their mobile stuff, ie iPads, iPhone, etc, but no more notebooks or desktops until they get their act together.

 

[fig]

Sure it might be a very small market share right now, but its only a matter of time until PC manufacturers start coming out with laptops with HiDPI displays as well.

Matter of time? Sure.

Length of time before it becomes mainstream enough to be able to convince most clients to dedicate budget and development time to? Not anytime soon.

 

[optics261]

The only question I really need answered is if it's feasible to design for the web/UI on the Macbook Pro Retina. I haven't seen a solution, and others in the same business as I have the same issue.

The answer seems to be, when designing for a target audience on low-dpi screens, your options are:

1) Use an external monitor

2) Use the laptop screen with older apps which for now all simply pixel double, which is exactly the same as designing on a 1440x screen. Some people are fussy as to how sharp it shows a single pixel when pixel doubling.

But that is just a consequence of how blurry regular pixels are at native resolutions.

3) Use the laptop screen with newer apps knowing that they are adding some level of interpolation (and possibly, the newer apps will offer a mode to pixel-double instead)

 

[Autos]

So are you saying that this laptop is unusable for pixel perfect design using 1920x1200 scaling? I've read many mixed reports on the quality of the scaling.

As a fellow web designer/developer this issue did concern me greatly.

Having used a paving slab sized dell with 1920x1200 native res for the past 6 years I would hate to think I'm going backwards after spending a frankly ludicrous amount of money on one of these things.

 

[bryne]

It's not perfect, but if you've been doing "pixel-perfect"-level work on a laptop display instead of an IPS monitor this entire time, I doubt you'll notice a difference. The software scaling is significantly better than other lower-res laptop displays.

 

[skywalkerr69]

It will be more useful once the majority of the web upgrades to retina or hi-depth screens.

 

[AttilaTheHun]

I canceled my order, too, after I saw that images look blurry. I don't think it is a good fit for photographers and other people who consider unsharp images to be a deal breaker.

just came back from BB looked at the 15" MBP with retina display but the only thing I can say that my MBP 17" 1920 on 1200 look way better then the new one
I am happy I did not ordered the RMBP

 

[Autos]

It's not perfect, but if you've been doing "pixel-perfect"-level work on a laptop display instead of an IPS monitor this entire time, I doubt you'll notice a difference. The software scaling is significantly better than other lower-res laptop displays.

Was that meant to sound massively rude?

Are you suggesting my designs aren't pixel perfect because ive been using a TN panel? The panel type has absolutely 0 to do with being able to do pixel perfect work... As long as a panel is outputting its native res a pixel is a pixel...

I use ips screens at work and my work look pretty damn similar on both.

 

[CUsurfer]

just came back from BB looked at the 15" MBP with retina display but the only thing I can say that my MBP 17" 1920 on 1200 look way better then the new one
I am happy I did not ordered the RMBP

I too just came back from BB and I thought the display looked amazing. There was no 17" to compare it to, but I did compare it to a '12 regular MBP (the standard screen) and of course it blew it out of the water. I didn't see any issues talked about on these forums. No tinting, in fact the whites looked whiter. No laggy expose or anything. I did reproduce the laggy scrolling in Safari but the computer was showing it needed updates and we've confirmed that issue is fixed in ML anyway.

I also thought the "blurry" web imagery issue was way overblown. I mean, you can tell, but to me it was hardly the debilitating, unusable type of experience that I got the impression it would be based on reading these forums. Quite to the contrary actually--I could barely tell. Maybe my eyesight sucks, I don't know. I had the res on the retina set to 1920x1200 almost the entire time I was playing with it in BB, so I don't know if that made a difference. I also noticed significant glare reduction vs the standard MBP (again, not the matte screen). I wish they had a high res anti glare to compare to. Nearest Apple store is 100mi away for me, so BB is all I got. I was really impressed with the retina.

 

[Xcallibur]

I've got another 2 weeks to wait before I get my rMBP and I haven't seen one in-store so have no first-hand experience, but I wonder if this 'blurry' or 'fuzzy' appearance is, in part at least, an optical illusion?

Could it be that things that are retina-optimized - UI elements and photos in retina-aware apps like iPhoto and Aperture - are so pin-sharp that, by comparison, the same photo seems fuzzy in a non-retina app?

How many people have compared the same image, in the same (non-retina) app side by side on a rMBP and a non-retina MBP?

Remember, our brains can only measure relatively - e.g. whether something is hotter/colder than something else, or lighter/darker, etc. - it can't measure absolutes.

Another reason for me thinking this is an illusion is that while images are pixel-doubled horizontally and vertically, each pixel on a retina screen is half the size horizontally and vertically of a pixel on a non-retina therefore 4 retina pixels will be the same physical size on the screen as one pixel on a non-retina screen, therefore the image should be no more pixellated/fuzzy

That is how I predicted the high DPI display would look a while back before they were released, I too think it is the brain thinking the image is worse when it is actually the same as is displayed in non high DPI displays.

 

[JasonR]

It will be more useful once the majority of the web upgrades to retina or hi-depth screens.

Yeah...in about 12 years (or never). Do you ever look at stats of web browsers? Access to any website's analytics or anything?

 

[corvus32]

I too just came back from BB and I thought the display looked amazing. There was no 17" to compare it to, but I did compare it to a '12 regular MBP (the standard screen) and of course it blew it out of the water. I didn't see any issues talked about on these forums. No tinting, in fact the whites looked whiter. No laggy expose or anything. I did reproduce the laggy scrolling in Safari but the computer was showing it needed updates and we've confirmed that issue is fixed in ML anyway.

I also thought the "blurry" web imagery issue was way overblown. I mean, you can tell, but to me it was hardly the debilitating, unusable type of experience that I got the impression it would be based on reading these forums. Quite to the contrary actually--I could barely tell. Maybe my eyesight sucks, I don't know. I had the res on the retina set to 1920x1200 almost the entire time I was playing with it in BB, so I don't know if that made a difference. I also noticed significant glare reduction vs the standard MBP (again, not the matte screen). I wish they had a high res anti glare to compare to. Nearest Apple store is 100mi away for me, so BB is all I got. I was really impressed with the retina.

As a retina Macbook Pro owner, I can attest that everything you stated is correct.

 

[thomaskc]

+1. Why in the hell would you design for a 0.000001% Market Share? Complete waste of time...

100% correct

And even if / when lets say apple gives all their products a retina display by christmas, it's still just over 4% market share. So as I mentioned earlier, unless you do iPad specific things, it's not worth the time/cost

 

[wundram]

+1. Why in the hell would you design for a 0.000001% Market Share? Complete waste of time...

That 0.000001% just paid ~$3000 for a notebook computer, indicating that they have a lot of disposable income. That sounds like exactly who you would want to target.

 

[maxfischersweet]

I too just came back from BB and I thought the display looked amazing. There was no 17" to compare it to, but I did compare it to a '12 regular MBP (the standard screen) and of course it blew it out of the water.

if your going to say that, you need to say which of the 3 screens that are available did the regular MBP have. since it was best buy, i can tell you it wasnt the high res anti-glare, and most likely, it wasnt even the high res glossy. best buy mostly just carry the non high res glossy MBP's.

just saying.

i would say you would need to compare the high res anti glare to the new retina MBP before you say something. Because the anti-glare high res is the best of the options on the regular MBP. also, the non high res glossy is crap compared to the better options...

haha, oh wait, you did say standard. i guess you did actually make sure it was the high res gloss?

 

[corvus32]

if your going to say that, you need to say which of the 3 screens that are available did the regular MBP have. since it was best buy, i can tell you it wasnt the high res anti-glare, and most likely, it wasnt even the high res glossy. best buy mostly just carry the non high res glossy MBP's.

just saying.

i would say you would need to compare the high res anti glare to the new retina MBP before you say something. Because the anti-glare high res is the best of the options on the regular MBP. also, the non high res glossy is crap compared to the better options...

haha, oh wait, you did say standard. i guess you did actually make sure it was the high res gloss?

The non hi-res glossy is all Bestbuy sells, except for the retina MBP, which technically makes the old 1680x1050 TN panel low-res now, or would it be mid-res. Hmmm

 

[mackry]

Lol so you're saying you should design everything in Vector format when browsers only render pixel images? LOL

Like I said...show me how people are utilizing their workflow to create "retina" quality graphics on their websites.

I don't need to get into an internet pissing match. The retina display on the Macbook Pro is a cool, novelty item for now. Most web browsers are on older, outdated technology as most people don't adopt tech early like people on this site do.

The only question I really need answered is if it's feasible to design for the web/UI on the Macbook Pro Retina. I haven't seen a solution, and others in the same business as I have the same issue.

Hrmmm.. maybe this will help you and others.

It is very simple and here are the answers:

1. When designing websites in Photoshop, always use vectors and layer styles (this allows you to scale your designs up and down as needed)
   • Be sure to view your work on both normal and retina screens when still in the Photoshop stage (up to you really, as long as you follow the next methods)
2. When implementing your designs into code, use CSS3 properties for UI elements (e.g., buttons, shadows, gradients, animations, etc.) Photoshop users see CSS Hat, LayerStyles.org or learn CSS3. Illustrator users see the Illustrator HTML5 Pack
3. Use font icons/SVG and live browser-rendered fonts for text any and all text. See We’re in an icon-sharpness limbo
4. For photos, it's best to save two versions (which is not difficult whatsoever): one high-quality and one low-quality and serve them according to the device See retina.js and this article

Here is an example of using proper, scalable implementations of an icon and button for a website. This demonstrates what happens when you scale up (or down) an image – quality is lost – vs scaling something that is made to scale (css3, svg, etc.).

CSS3 is used to make the button versus using an image (use an image as a fallback). See how it's made
The icon is an example of using font icons. See Typicons (there are tons of options like this for font icons, use google or make your own) and this article

Lastly, a great example of a website that is resolution independent (type, icons, ui and all) is github.com. Try zooming on the site (CMD +/-) to see. You can do this on any site to see how resolution independent they are and thus how well it'll look retina devices.

 

[fig]

That 0.000001% just paid ~$3000 for a notebook computer, indicating that they have a lot of disposable income. That sounds like exactly who you would want to target.

If you can figure out how to get them to specifically view your website I bet someone else will pay you a lot of money for that knowledge

It makes sense at this point if you were creating Mac/iPad apps, other than that I probably wouldn't spend the time on it.

Mackry, good info there, thanks. That could probably turn into a good discussion in the design forum (which I just found yesterday).

 

[dreamtenstudios]

Well it's been over 10 days, and I can say that I am 100% keeping my rMBP and am extremely satisfied with it overall. Designing on it was a little difficult at first and the pixels aren't exactly the same as a normal lcd, but I've been designing on it a few times a week using the retina display and it really hasn't affected things. I primarily use a 27" ACD, so I can easily check my work on that to see if things look different.

Any designers out there who are considering the purchase but are unsure, I'd say go for it. You always have 30 days to return it with no restocking fee, so it won't hurt to at least try.

Btw, my old MacBook Pro is up for sale http://www.ebay.com/itm/230814943458?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1586.l2649

 

[zerotiu]

Well it's been over 10 days, and I can say that I am 100% keeping my rMBP and am extremely satisfied with it overall. Designing on it was a little difficult at first and the pixels aren't exactly the same as a normal lcd, but I've been designing on it a few times a week using the retina display and it really hasn't affected things. I primarily use a 27" ACD, so I can easily check my work on that to see if things look different.

Any designers out there who are considering the purchase but are unsure, I'd say go for it. You always have 30 days to return it with no restocking fee, so it won't hurt to at least try.

Btw, my old MacBook Pro is up for sale http://www.ebay.com/itm/230814943458?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1586.l2649

I've ordered my rMBP and because this thread, I was thinking everyday ..maybe to cancel my order. Then this post came out.... lol. I'm so not canceling the order