Considering switching to Mac & iPhone

[Andy_uk_1]

First thing to accept about the Apple Eco System is that the price structure has and always will be bonkers. You're paying for the cool kid Kool Aid.

Second thing to accept is that it is a very closed system, getting more closed with each new product release. Gotta keep that inner circle tight.

So it's not necessarily that the products are better than their competitors but rather that you believe in the eco system as a whole. It's a brand thing.

I switched to Apple because Windows sucked so bad... I only made the transition when OSX was announced... had zero interest in the OS9 stuff. It was a big investment back then. It's still a big investment today. I don't bite at the Apple very often, my current rig has been running since 2010, but now another major transition is about to take place. Is it where I want to go? I'd have to see what they are doing with the GPU going forward... that has always been their weakest link.

The time is coming where I make another decision, do I stick with the Mac or move back to Windows? It all hinges upon what they end up doing with the GPU.

Thanks for the advice and to be honest, my reason for switching is pretty much the same - I'm just not feeling Windows 10 so much. As I say I dipped into Apple 20 years ago, with an iMac running Mac OS 9, but it was so limited I ended up moving to Windows and didn't look back for a long time - basically until Windows 8. Then my experience of my MacBook Pro from 2014 dying after 2 years (I cared for it very well by the way!) was, what I thought would be, the final nail in the coffin.

However... Windows 10 for me just isn't what it promised to be - certainly not yet - and I miss the simplicity of Apple. I do like the openness of Windows, the choice of devices and the pricing - my current laptop is an AMD Ryzen 5 with 8GB RAM and it cost me <£500. The irony is it's good for all the more powerful stuff I do, e.g. making a music and a bit of graphic design, but it's TERRIBLE at the basics. Even sorting my photos collection, the photos app is so awful and slow, I've ended up just moving to Google Photos.

In two paragraphs I've basically talked myself out of buying a Mac and then back into it again!!

 

[Boyd01]

I've not really followed anything Apple for a while since I switched over to Windows so I'm pretty confused as to why they'd get rid of the headphone jack!

See this

Removal of iPhone 7 Headphone Jack Was Essential for Water Resistance, New Camera System

Apple removed the headphone jack in the iPhone 7 and the iPhone 7 Plus, a controversial decision that's upset some iPhone fans. On stage at...

www.macrumors.com

 

[Andy_uk_1]

See this

Removal of iPhone 7 Headphone Jack Was Essential for Water Resistance, New Camera System

Apple removed the headphone jack in the iPhone 7 and the iPhone 7 Plus, a controversial decision that's upset some iPhone fans. On stage at...

www.macrumors.com

Fair enough. I guess that makes sense - thanks! Getting closer to shelling out a lot of cash now though 😂

 

[960design]

Was my experience typical? Apple were great at fixing the machine but for it to totally die so soon did leave me concerned about reliability.

I think no. My office uses MBPr and a couple of iMac27 with no issues. All the offices around me uses Windows based machines with varying levels of performance / break down issues. It mostly seems the 'what you pay, is what you get' holds true. ( Except for my two windows laptops: Asus G14 = amazing and Asus Zenbook Pro Duo = amazing x2 )

Am I right in thinking that the iPhone SE doesn't ship with headphones or a charger, or a headphone socket, meaning I'd have to buy a headphone adapter and/or Apple's own headphones, as well as a charging brick?

You do not have to use Apple's own headphones. I've been using a Sennheiser PXC 550 that switches between iPad, MBPr, iMac27, Asus G14, ect on the fly with little to no issues. Occasionally I have to 'connect' again with the G14. I also use Apple XBeats, that work just as well and sound pretty good for $49 bluetooth headphones.

I like to use a proper mouse - I know Mac trackpads are generally good, but I just prefer a mouse. Can I attach a standard wireless mouse to a MacBook Air or Pro or would I need an adapter or specific mouse?
It seems like a lot of adapters and add-ons are needed unless I'm missing something. Any help or advice would be great.

The trackpads on MBPr are amazing! Best in the business. Your mouse will start to feel less precise ( cannot easily switch between multiple desktops, access apps, ect ) after a very short while. You can use any bluetooth mouse on your Macs ( I think you can now use any bluetooth mouse on your iPads - I have only tried Apple's mouse though ).

 

[brianmowrey]

Your mouse will start to feel less precise ( cannot easily switch between multiple desktops, access apps, ect ) after a very short while.

Your UI POV is too constrained. Trackpads are incapable of Camera Control. Trackpads are thus incapable of interacting with 3D modeling apps like SketchUp or 1-P shooter games. If you don't use either, fine. But a laptop that can't interact with a RF-USB-a mouse is a toy, not remotely "pro."

 

[s66]

Hi,

Firstly, apologies if this isn't posted in the best section.

I owned a MacBook Pro several years ago, and while Apple repaired a couple of faults free of charge (coating peeling off the display after 12 months, and then a dead logic board after 2 years), the rising cost of Macs plus the faults I'd experienced put me off a bit.

I've been using a Windows laptop for the last couple of years, but am considering switching back to Mac (MacBook Air or Pro) and getting an iPhone SE at the same time. Windows 10's constant, slow and buggy updates are unbearable at times.

Basically my questions are:

• Was my experience typical? Apple were great at fixing the machine but for it to totally die so soon did leave me concerned about reliability.
• Am I right in thinking that the iPhone SE doesn't ship with headphones or a charger, or a headphone socket, meaning I'd have to buy a headphone adapter and/or Apple's own headphones, as well as a charging brick?
• I like to use a proper mouse - I know Mac trackpads are generally good, but I just prefer a mouse. Can I attach a standard wireless mouse to a MacBook Air or Pro or would I need an adapter or specific mouse?

It seems like a lot of adapters and add-ons are needed unless I'm missing something. Any help or advice would be great.

Thanks!

I've managed over a 100 macs.

Your experience is _very_ atypical. Surely there are sometimes products that required some fixing, but Apple is about the best of all computer makers in repairing their stuff. It you're worried about it: get Apple Care (those having just one of two: get it!)

Any iPhone except the really ancient ones can change from any lightning cable. The cables included with the latest generation are to connect to a USB-C port. Older cables connected to USB-A. either cable works. Any decent power brick with either a USB-A or USB-C output will work as well.

Headphones: the world is going wireless, but I'm sure apple still has wired ones on sale:

EarPods (Lightning Connector)

EarPods with Lightning Connector let you answer calls and adjust volume and playback of music and video. Buy now with fast, free shipping.

www.apple.com

These were included a while back with iPhones, still have those that came with my iPhone X. They work perfectly fine.
There are adaptors, but I'd recommend against them: it's too cumbersome to use

Lightning to 3.5 mm Headphone Jack Adapter - Apple

Apple Store Search Results

www.apple.com

Mouse: any USB mouse will work with a mac. Your mac will only have USB-C ports.
A wireless mouse needs to be a bluetooth one, I've no experience with PC intended bluetooth mice. The apple ones are just great with one caveat: the location of the lightning power connector is cumbersome, but as you need to load it just once a month or so, it's not that big a deal.
I'd be very careful with mice that need a driver on a mac: driver needs will haunt you at major OS upgrades.
I'd also be careful with mice that want a receiver: it' hogs up a port and is likely a USB-A port it wants.
The apple magic mouse is a really great companion to your mac. But having had to retrain people to use macs from windows: do give the trackpad a really good chance before you pull out the mouse: the trackpad is REALLY, REALLY good. and if you bite through it just a bit, very few users will keep wanting a mouse.

Magic Mouse 2 Silver - Apple

Apple Store Search Results

www.apple.com

 

[Andy_uk_1]

Your UI POV is too constrained. Trackpads are incapable of Camera Control. Trackpads are thus incapable of interacting with 3D modeling apps like SketchUp or 1-P shooter games. If you don't use either, fine. But a laptop that can't interact with a RF-USB-a mouse is a toy, not remotely "pro."

This is the thing that's really putting me off. If it wasn't for the lack of ports/connectivity problems I'd have bought one by now. I still might go ahead but it seems like a clunky way of getting stuff to work, especially considering what I'd be paying for one of these machines.

 

[960design]

Your UI POV is too constrained. Trackpads are incapable of Camera Control. Trackpads are thus incapable of interacting with 3D modeling apps like SketchUp or 1-P shooter games. If you don't use either, fine. But a laptop that can't interact with a RF-USB-a mouse is a toy, not remotely "pro."

Must I point out the impressive combination of oxymorons listed above?

 

[MacBH928]

Hi,

Firstly, apologies if this isn't posted in the best section.

I owned a MacBook Pro several years ago, and while Apple repaired a couple of faults free of charge (coating peeling off the display after 12 months, and then a dead logic board after 2 years), the rising cost of Macs plus the faults I'd experienced put me off a bit.

I've been using a Windows laptop for the last couple of years, but am considering switching back to Mac (MacBook Air or Pro) and getting an iPhone SE at the same time. Windows 10's constant, slow and buggy updates are unbearable at times.

Basically my questions are:

• Was my experience typical? Apple were great at fixing the machine but for it to totally die so soon did leave me concerned about reliability.
• Am I right in thinking that the iPhone SE doesn't ship with headphones or a charger, or a headphone socket, meaning I'd have to buy a headphone adapter and/or Apple's own headphones, as well as a charging brick?
• I like to use a proper mouse - I know Mac trackpads are generally good, but I just prefer a mouse. Can I attach a standard wireless mouse to a MacBook Air or Pro or would I need an adapter or specific mouse?

It seems like a lot of adapters and add-ons are needed unless I'm missing something. Any help or advice would be great.

Thanks!

I won't lie, for the price they are asking reliability sucks. Its too flimsy and a lot of things gets broken. Not everyone but more often than it should. Repair is unreasonably expensive. I wouldn't call Apple devices "working horses".

That being said, if you live in a place with official Apple support and guarantee then you should not worry. If its flaw in the device, Apple has shown that they will fix it and repair it all for free without struggles so you can have your peace of mind.

I don't know whats your use case, but if you don't need absolute power a MBP 2015 used can be cheap for you+has all the ports+very reliable machines no issues. You can wait it out and see the future Apple ARM laptops how they turn out to be. If you use your Mac for PRO work, I wouldn't buy a Mac laptop honestly unless I am happy to spend $3K whenever something goes wrong.

 

[pmiles]

Thanks - I mean it looks ok. I guess it's just a bit messy. I've not really followed anything Apple for a while since I switched over to Windows so I'm pretty confused as to why they'd get rid of the headphone jack!

Wireless is why they got rid of the headphone jack. People don't want to be tethered. It's not like it's an Apple-only change... all the manufacturers are going in this direction.

 

[Andy_uk_1]

I won't lie, for the price they are asking reliability sucks. Its too flimsy and a lot of things gets broken. Not everyone but more often than it should. Repair is unreasonably expensive. I wouldn't call Apple devices "working horses".

That being said, if you live in a place with official Apple support and guarantee then you should not worry. If its flaw in the device, Apple has shown that they will fix it and repair it all for free without struggles so you can have your peace of mind.

I don't know whats your use case, but if you don't need absolute power a MBP 2015 used can be cheap for you+has all the ports+very reliable machines no issues. You can wait it out and see the future Apple ARM laptops how they turn out to be. If you use your Mac for PRO work, I wouldn't buy a Mac laptop honestly unless I am happy to spend $3K whenever something goes wrong.

Thanks, it's not really power I need - the most power-hungry work I'll do is making a bit of casual music using a MIDI controller, and as I understand it the MacBook Air can handle Logic Pro fairly well for light use. It's more about the simplicity of the operating system - Windows is just not good at the basics. That being said, I do much prefer Windows' file system to Mac OS.

 

[Andy_uk_1]

Wireless is why they got rid of the headphone jack. People don't want to be tethered. It's not like it's an Apple-only change... all the manufacturers are going in this direction.

Fair enough. I prefer a cable in all honesty but I guess wireless is the way things are headed. I don't like change

 

[Andy_uk_1]

Hi, I've seen that the new Apple Silicon Macs have now been released. They look pretty good, and to be honest if I was going to make the switch, I don't see much point in getting an Intel model - I'd probably be more keen to get one of the new machines.

I just wondered if anyone knew about running older apps/games on these new Macs. Basically, when I had a Mac several years ago, I bought a fair few programs for it from the Mac App Store which are still (I assume) tied to my Apple account. A couple of games, plus some design apps - Logoist, Flame Painter, and a few more. Does anyone know if all apps will work with Rosetta 2? Also, how likely is it that older apps will be converted to work with the new Apple Silicon chip? Will it just be new apps that are optimised for it or will everything eventually transition? I guess that might be an impossible question to answer, but does anyone know of the likelihood of older apps being converted?

Thanks.

 

[James_C]

Andy,

I suggest you wait a while for reviews and benchmarks to come out next week.

Your old Apps should run fine under Rosetta 2. With the performance gains that Apple says that it can achieve with the new M1 Chip it says that some Apps actually perform better under Rosetta 2 than on an older Mac. Given that your existing Apps are a few years old you should be ok. It is probably worth pointing out that if you have any old Mac 32bit Apps these will not run on any New Mac as 32bit support was dropped with Catalina.

I went through the prior transition from PowerPC to Intel and that was a little painful as key apps like Microsoft Office and Photoshop took ages to move over to universal binary. The difference is this time Microsoft and Adobe have already got Apps working under universal binary - although Photoshop is not due to ship until next year. I don't think Microsoft have said when Office 365 will be ready, but hopefully not too far away. From the Keynote a number of developers have said it was relatively simple to recompile there apps for universal binary. I suggest you take a look at the status of any non apple apps that you rely on. I believe that Apple has all of its Apps more or less ready for Universal Binary.

Update - It looks like Apple Silicon support is already in the Beta release of Microsoft Office 365 for Mac.

 

[Boyd01]

32-bit apps are not supposed to work under Rosetta. I don't know what we should assume about the app store. For example, I bought Logic Pro 9 a number of years ago. Bad timing, within six months, Apple introduced Logic Pro X and that was not a free upgrade. So I eventually had to pay $200 again when version 9 became too unstable after a few MacOS upgrades.

For other apps, it depends completely on the developer, I'm sure Apple won't do anything to convert someone else's app. This is one reason why I'm still quite happy with my Intel Mac. Not only do I run Windows under Parallels, I also run two older versions of MacOS (Mountain Lion and Sierra). This lets me continue using several thousand dollars of CAD, 3d and database software that would otherwise have to be replaced. I don't think this will be possible on the Apple Silicon Macs.

 

[Andy_uk_1]

Andy,

I suggest you wait a while for reviews and benchmarks to come out next week.

Your old Apps should run fine under Rosetta 2. With the performance gains that Apple says that it can achieve with the new M1 Chip it says that some Apps actually perform better under Rosetta 2 than on an older Mac. Given that your existing Apps are a few years old you should be ok. It is probably worth pointing out that if you have any old Mac 32bit Apps these will not run on any New Mac as 32bit support was dropped with Catalina.

I went through the prior transition from PowerPC to Intel and that was a little painful as key apps like Microsoft Office and Photoshop took ages to move over to universal binary. The difference is this time Microsoft and Adobe have already got Apps working under universal binary - although Photoshop is not due to ship until next year. I don't think Microsoft have said when Office 365 will be ready, but hopefully not too far away. From the Keynote a number of developers have said it was relatively simple to recompile there apps for universal binary. I suggest you take a look at the status of any non apple apps that you rely on. I believe that Apple has all of its Apps more or less ready for Universal Binary.

Update - It looks like Apple Silicon support is already in the Beta release of Microsoft Office 365 for Mac.

Thanks James

 

[Andy_uk_1]

32-bit apps are not supposed to work under Rosetta. I don't know what we should assume about the app store. For example, I bought Logic Pro 9 a number of years ago. Bad timing, within six months, Apple introduced Logic Pro X and that was not a free upgrade. So I eventually had to pay $200 again when version 9 became too unstable after a few MacOS upgrades.

For other apps, it depends completely on the developer, I'm sure Apple won't do anything to convert someone else's app. This is one reason why I'm still quite happy with my Intel Mac. Not only do I run Windows under Parallels, I also run two older versions of MacOS (Mountain Lion and Sierra). This lets me continue using several thousand dollars of CAD, 3d and database software that would otherwise have to be replaced. I don't think this will be possible on the Apple Silicon Macs.

Thanks... I didn't realise that apps went unstable with upgrades. I won't be doing anything as advanced as running Windows or other versions of the OS, but one of the key reasons I'm considering moving back is because I really miss Logic, and the ease of use that comes with music making on a Mac. I'm using PreSonus Studio One on Windows just now - it's good, but it's not as easy as it is with Apple, and there's a lot more fuss needed to get things to work.

I own Logic Pro X, which I guess will be ok on the Apple Silicon Macs? I definitely wouldn't want to be shelling out again for it any time soon!

 

[Boyd01]

I own Logic Pro X, which I guess will be ok on the Apple Silicon Macs? I definitely wouldn't want to be shelling out again for it any time soon!

Well, that is how I felt when I had to upgrade from Logic 9 to Logic X about 6 months after I purchased it! It is hard to understand their policy, Final Cut Pro X upgrades have always been free (so far). I don't really follow it anymore, but assume Logic Pro X upgrades for Apple Silicon will be free. But it wouldn't surprise me if there was a Logic Pro 11 (or whatever) as a paid upgrade in the future, with new features for the new processors.

Whenever Apple introduces a new version of MacOS, it breaks some old programs. That is one reason why companies need to keep updating their software. It can become a problem when your expensive software just stops working, even more of a problem if the publisher is no longer in business. And Apple "broke" a lot of software with Catalina, because it will no longer run 32-bit apps.

 

[Andy_uk_1]

Well, that is how I felt when I had to upgrade from Logic 9 to Logic X about 6 months after I purchased it! It is hard to understand their policy, Final Cut Pro X upgrades have always been free (so far). I don't really follow it anymore, but assume Logic Pro X upgrades for Apple Silicon will be free. But it wouldn't surprise me if there was a Logic Pro 11 (or whatever) as a paid upgrade in the future, with new features for the new processors.

Whenever Apple introduces a new version of MacOS, it breaks some old programs. That is one reason why companies need to keep updating their software. It can become a problem when your expensive software just stops working, even more of a problem if the publisher is no longer in business. And Apple "broke" a lot of software with Catalina, because it will no longer run 32-bit apps.

That seems so unfair! Could you (in theory) hang onto an older version of Logic, if you disabled OS upgrades, at least for a while? It seems wrong to have to basically pay again to continue using something you've already bought. I don't think that's ever happened on Windows, in my experience?

 

[Boyd01]

Of course you could just stick with an old version of MacOS, and that is what I did for a couple years. But even then, some incremental updates caused the old version to be unstable.

If you have never encountered software that breaks with operating system updates.... you are lucky! 😂 It is probably more of an issue with more demanding "pro" apps. It's actually quite remarkable that Apple usually gives free updates to their Pro Apps. Final Cut Pro used to cost a lot - $600 IIRC, and the whole Final Cut Studio bundle was at something like $1000. Then they would update every couple years and existing users would have to pay something like $300. I went through multiple cycles of that. So, getting it for $200 at the App Store with free updates was quite a major policy change!

 

[Andy_uk_1]

Of course you could just stick with an old version of MacOS, and that is what I did for a couple years. But even then, some incremental updates caused the old version to be unstable.

If you have never encountered software that breaks with operating system updates.... you are lucky! 😂 It is probably more of an issue with more demanding "pro" apps. It's actually quite remarkable that Apple usually gives free updates to their Pro Apps. Final Cut Pro used to cost a lot - $600 IIRC, and the whole Final Cut Studio bundle was at something like $1000. Then they would update every couple years and existing users would have to pay something like $300. I went through multiple cycles of that. So, getting it for $200 at the App Store with free updates was quite a major policy change!

Fair enough. I guess I've never really used a lot of software at length. The only similar thing I can think of is when laptops started to be made without optical drives, and I re-bought a few games on Steam, though I rarely play any more.

Apart from some casual music making, I use my system predominantly for basic tasks and web browsing, which is where the Chromebook has been so handy. The problem is it quickly becomes limiting - e.g. I recently took an online proctored exam which required a software installation, so I had to use Windows... but for other things, the battery life, weight and general 'clunkiness' of the Windows machine means it's easier to use the Chrome.

I basically think a Macbook Air would combine the two, and give me everything I need in once device. Sorry for the continual jabbering. I think I might just go ahead and get one.

 

[James_C]

I own Logic Pro X, which I guess will be ok on the Apple Silicon Macs?

Yes, all of Apples pro apps including Logic Pro X are ready to run natively on Apple Silicon. Apple claims you will be able to run 3x more instruments and effect plugins in Logic Pro. For video editors, Final Cut Pro can run up to 6x faster.

 

[cdcastillo]

That seems so unfair! Could you (in theory) hang onto an older version of Logic, if you disabled OS upgrades, at least for a while? It seems wrong to have to basically pay again to continue using something you've already bought. I don't think that's ever happened on Windows, in my experience?

Lots of people here are still on Mojave precisely because of stability and running 32 bit apps

 

[tonyr6]

I switched from PC to Mac. Well not really I still use my PC sometimes. The big difference is that PC's Windows 10 has constant updates. Those video drivers are updated now weekly and Windows 10 pushes at least twice a month two updates that require two reboots.

Mac OS has less updates just had to install one the other day and I don't have to worry about constantly updating drivers and software unlike Windows.

As for an iPhone I would never switch because I need to run extensions in a web browser. Kiwi and Yandex support them only on Android.

 

[Andy_uk_1]

Yes, all of Apples pro apps including Logic Pro X are ready to run natively on Apple Silicon. Apple claims you will be able to run 3x more instruments and effect plugins in Logic Pro. For video editors, Final Cut Pro can run up to 6x faster.

Thanks James. Almost bought a MacBook Air last night but decided to hang fire, for now...!