Consoles - are they still where it's at?

[0098386]

Of course, if you think the keyboard is at ALL practical for gaming, then you probably haven't owned a console and won't agree.

Of course you haven't played a FPS on a console, or anything that requires precision or twitch skills.

If I was a casual gamer I'd love the current console setup, with their simplified online features (who needs lobbies? ) simplified controls, lower price point... Shame I'm not really

 

[Shacklebolt]

My point was not that you should use computers exclusively for gaming. Rather that computers are so comparatively affordable and are used for so many other aspects of day to day life that the addition of gaming to it wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility. Should a computer be used exclusively for games? Of course not. But could a computer take the place of a console as just another function it performs?

 

[iEdd]

Of course you haven't played a FPS on a console, or anything that requires precision or twitch skills.

Yeah, I've been getting most decent FPS console games since N64 across all 3 platforms. I'd almost call it my favourite genre. Playing them, alongside many PC FPSs, I've found an ANALOGUE joystick to be far superior to digital WASD keys.

I suppose it's the classic controller vs keyboard debate and you either like the purpose designed controller or the KB/M. Each to his own. I was only trying to make the point that most console owners find keyboard and mouse ridiculous and hence there are plenty of people who will still buy the latest console offerings.

 

[0098386]

Yeah, I've been getting most decent FPS console games since N64 across all 3 platforms. I'd almost call it my favourite genre. Playing them, alongside many PC FPSs, I've found an ANALOGUE joystick to be far superior to digital WASD keys.

I suppose it's the classic controller vs keyboard debate and you either like the purpose designed controller or the KB/M. Each to his own. I was only trying to make the point that most console owners find keyboard and mouse ridiculous and hence there are plenty of people who will still buy the latest console offerings.

I know what you mean, it's just I value precision and speed when gaming and find that using 8 fingers (5 on keyboard, 3 on mouse) works better than 4.

Most console owners find it ridiculous? I'd love to see something that backs this up. How do you mean ridiculous too, or is it just a very poor wording?

Before the Wii I never bought a console for it's control options... I only bought a controller (for 2D games) back in Jan.


We need JackAxe.

 

[sikkinixx]

If I was a casual gamer I'd love the current console setup, with their simplified online features (who needs lobbies? )

I thnk console online is just as good if not better than PC. Match-making is great and something a lot of PC games are missing.

 

[michaelltd]

Having played FPS games on both PC/Mac and consoles, I personally prefer console's dual analog over the PC/Mac keyboard and mouse.

The mouse is better for precision and speed, but I'm more than willing to sacrifice some of that for a more comfortable experience. Instead of sitting upright at my desk and being mindful of ergonomics, I can sit back and relax with my controller in my lap.

Keyboard control is awful IMO. This is where an analog stick really excels over the mouse/keyboard control. Using a stick with more directional control just feels better than WASD.

 

[LethalWolfe]

I was only trying to make the point that most console owners find keyboard and mouse ridiculous and hence there are plenty of people who will still buy the latest console offerings.

Years ago I found the KB/M talk ridiculous too until I was forced to use it and realized what everyone was talking about. I haven't PC gamed in years and will be console only for the foreseeable future, but that doesn't mean I can't recognize the speed and flexibility you get w/a KB/M. One can like PC games and one can like console games. It's not an either/or situation.

Keyboard control is awful IMO. This is where an analog stick really excels over the mouse/keyboard control. Using a stick with more directional control just feels better than WASD.

Dual sticks are all fine and good until you have to multi-task.


Lethal

 

[MRU]

Dual sticks are all fine and good until you have to multi-task.

Surely 'servicing' two sticks™ is multi-tasking

 

[takao]

consoles being cheaper ? only if you don't factor in the TV and other equipment on the console side

i need a PC no matter what so it's not the question between 1000 dollar PC and 400 dollar console it's the question between 250 dollar graphics card and 400 dollar console

also games on the PC are significantly cheaper and the prices drop faster and lower for the older games

after all for getting most out of you console games you need a bigger TV (full HD means what 1000 bucks)... then for surround you very likely need a AV receiver (300-400 bucks ?)
sure you use it for other things as well .. but that's the same on a computer

and you can get quite good gaming PCs under 800-1000 bucks .. especially when you build your own .. which is not really far of from console prices nowadays

also the game selection entirely depends on where you live.. around here the PC games shelf is bigger than any single console shelf .. in fact in some stores the PC strategy shelf alone is bigger than the each of the 360, PS3 or Wii shelves

sure if you don't like RPGs, strategy, shooters and simulation games there isn't that much selection for you on a PC.. but if you do there are boatloads of games

and if PC is dying like so many have repeated since at least a decade now then why are people left and right to me buying new PCs currently for games .. i can easily name 7 on top of my head who have bought one within the last 2 months/are willing to buy a new gaming PC in the next 2 months (of which obody wants a ps3 and more than half own a wii)

sure PC gaming isn't as easy as console games (not that those care free either as seeable with all those patches and now even install options) but it's compared to 5 - 10 years ago it has been become more easy

 

[ChrisK018]

^ I understand the point you're trying to make, but it's not like a nice TV and AV receiver are useless on their own. Most people already have that stuff to watch TV, movies, and listen to music and besides, consoles will let a user set up with the most basic of TV's.


I'd imagine that the people sitting around at home with no TV or receiver that suddenly decide they need a video game console are in the very very small minority.

 

[takao]

^ I understand the point you're trying to make, but it's not like a nice TV and AV receiver are useless on their own.

so is a computer not useless outside of games either which was exactly my point.. after all most people on this board have quite expensive computers anyway so i don't really get this "PC are so expensive for games" vibe which simply isn't true if you factor in your current PC and add a better graphics card

I'd imagine that the people sitting around at home with no TV or receiver that suddenly decide they need a video game console are in the very very small minority.

i imagine the amount of people with no computer who suddenly decide to play computer games is a very very small minority as well

 

[0098386]

Good points Jenswa.

HDTV services are very expensive in the UK right now. If I were to buy a HDTV today it would only get used properly with a video games console.

The game price point is very realistic. Even on the high street, PC games are a good £10-15 from their console counterparts. Orange Box in the shop? PC has it for 30, 360 at 40 and PS3... Well it's not out yet! It's £26 on the Steam shop, where I also have no worry of losing the physical media

I also like the backwards compatability and enhancements with a PC. Quake, Doom, HL etc all have higher quality texture packs, updates to make them look spectacular etc. Breathing life into old games.

Meh... I'll happily defend either consoles or PC as I play games on them both (Galaxy and TF2 taking up my gaming time).

 

[Antares]

Aiming and moving in a FPS, on a PC, is indeed faster than on a console. However, the controls are not as comfortable as when playing an FPS with a console controller. I've been doing both since Wolfenstein3D. Ever since Goldeneye 64, I have been unable to enjoy using a keyboard and mouse to play shooters. It always seems like a bulky hassle to me. Also, the FPS control on PC's is a bit too fast for my taste. If you watch expert players play something like Unreal Tournament or Counter Strike, you will see them fly through maps and make kill after kill in seconds. That is way too fast and incredibly unrealistic. It's also not fun. Console FPS's seem to have a better pace to them and the controller feels more comfortable than the keyboard & mouse option.

 

[LethalWolfe]

If you watch expert players play something like Unreal Tournament or Counter Strike, you will see them fly through maps and make kill after kill in seconds. That is way too fast and incredibly unrealistic. It's also not fun. Console FPS's seem to have a better pace to them and the controller feels more comfortable than the keyboard & mouse option.

How is being exceptionally good at a game unrealistic? I'll agree that it's not fun being on the receiving of someone that good, but it's not something unique to PC games.


Lethal

 

[takao]

if you want realistic games you have to resort to a PC anyway (flying games etc.) since it's the only place for simulation games

 

[0098386]

Wait, console FPS games are realistic?

The FPS genre is one of the most unrealistic there is. Console or PC, the controls are far flung from realism, "where your gun looks is where you look", movement speed, the amount of damage the player can take, the inability to do simple things like climb over rocks.

They're games that are designed to be fun, not realistic. I could count the number of sim FPS games on one hand that had been devastated by a grenade blast.

Oh, and you've forgotten about pacing. CSS:S, HL2 and all that are fast shooters. Try something like TF2, it's a much slower pace. Only the Scout can run. There are slow and fast PC games, variety. It's not limited to slow only.

 

[diamond.g]

The main problem that I saw with computer games is the difficulty in knowing if a game was going to run on your computer. I mean look at all the post here about people asking if game x will run on thier mac. With a console game you really don't have to worry about it. Nor do you have to worry about performance issues either (ie game running too slow, need to upgrade graphics car or ram). Of course that is also a downside for those of us that like tweaking system settings to get great iq, with really high fps. You can't overclock a game console.

It also does make a difference what genre's you like as games like Super Mario Galaxy, or Wii Sports are pretty hard to find on the computer. Where as RTS and MMO's are pretty hard to find (or even worth playing) on game consoles.

Of course the best thing to do is: Buy a Mac, Build a PC (for games), and Buy a PS3&Wii&360 aka PSWii60. Hook it all up to your Pioneer Elite 60" Plasma and call it a day.

 

[Antares]

How is being exceptionally good at a game unrealistic? I'll agree that it's not fun being on the receiving of someone that good, but it's not something unique to PC games.


Lethal

Being good isn't unrealistic. But how quickly characters run is. My issue is actually not with using a mouse but more so with using a keyboard. I like moving with an analog stick, not having to use several fingers to try and clumsily press the arrows or letters on a keyboard. It's not comfortable and not natural. With an analog stick, you not only have the quick responsiveness and accuracy that you can't get with a keyboard but you also get degrees of movement....walk slowly, walk, walk fast, jog, run, sprint, etc.. With a keyboard, you can only run (or through awkwardly pressing a combination of keys, sprint or walk). It's awkward and imprecise.

Now, the mouse is a different story. I love the accuracy that a mouse allows for. Aiming with a second analog stick is not as precise and takes significantly longer than a mouse. Ideally, I would want an FPS control system that makes use of the best qualities of each setup (the aiming precision of a mouse with movement accuracy of an analog stick). Well, this holy grail could just possibly be the Wii Remote and nunchuck combination....or a future design with a similar set up of a pointer and an analog stick (only, with more buttons than the current Wii Remote). Once perfected, I challenge anyone to think of any setup that would be better for an FPS.

-------------

I don't think consoles will disappear anytime in the foreseeable future. People can talk about how a gaming PC can built for almost as cheaply as a console. However, you're talking with some reasonably tech savvy people on this board. Is every mom and dad going to let 8 year old Billy build a PC? Does every person on the planet want to go through the time and trouble of building and constantly upgrading a PC just to play games? I agree with the sentiment on the inherent simplicity of consoles...all you have to do is pop in a game and play. Your PS3, purchased at launch, will be able to play the same games, at the same level of speed and graphical detail as a PS3 purchased 5 years later. That is definitely NOT the case with PC's.

 

[risc]

For me consoles > computers for 1 reason. Crazy a$$ Japanese games! GAME OVER - I LOVE CONSOLES!

 

[LethalWolfe]

Being good isn't unrealistic. But how quickly characters run is.

Play a game more based in reality and the characters won't run, jump, and/or bunny hop like they do in more "fantastic" games.

My issue is actually not with using a mouse but more so with using a keyboard. I like moving with an analog stick, not having to use several fingers to try and clumsily press the arrows or letters on a keyboard. It's not comfortable and not natural. With an analog stick, you not only have the quick responsiveness and accuracy that you can't get with a keyboard but you also get degrees of movement....walk slowly, walk, walk fast, jog, run, sprint, etc.. With a keyboard, you can only run (or through awkwardly pressing a combination of keys, sprint or walk). It's awkward and imprecise.

I've never used it, but theSplitFish Frag FX controller/mouse hybrid unit for the PS3 sounds like exactly what you are looking for (assuming it works like advertised).

I agree that binary function of WASD isn't as smooth as using a mouse or analog stick, but the flexibility you get w/a KB/M though can't be matched w/a controller. For example, w/a KB/M you can jump, switch weapons, equip/use inventory items, etc., w/o sacrificing control of your player. Using a controller you either lose movement or aim ability anytime you have to hit a face button or the D-pad. Cycling thru weapons/inventory lists on a controller is cumbersome as well compared to having mapped keys and even if a PC player has to take a finger off a WASD key the travel time to hit most of the keys on the left side of the KB is much faster than the travel time between a thumb stick and a face button.

Of course, this is just fixating mostly on FPS games. For sports, flight sims, and fighting games I think a controller/joystick is more suited that a KB/M.

Horses for courses. I don't think current console FPS control is bad, it's just not as good as KB/M, IMO.


Lethal

 

[DiamondMac]

I love that my PS3 is now my DVD player. Buying my PS2 when it first came out was arguably one of the best investments I ever got. It lasted me all the way until about a year and a half ago.

I spent $500 for my Blu-Ray DVD/PS3 and absolutely love it.

If it lasts me 5 years, I will have gotten my money's worth and then some

 

[zero2dash]

if you want a gaming computer, you're going to shell out a few grand.

Sure if you buy a Dell/Alienware.

You can build a powerful gaming computer for under $1000. Even if you go quad. Hell I'm building an (overclocked to 3.2-3.4gig) E2160, 8800GT 512, 4 gigs of Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2 800 ram, 750gig HD, Corsair VX550w psu, 20x Sony NEC Optiarc burner system for around $750 when all's said and done and I'll be able to play Crysis at 1680x1050 (my 22" LCD native res), with decent quality and AA settings...and everything else above 60fps at that resolution with full AA + AF.

A gaming computer is more expensive than a console, sure, but a gaming computer can do more, be upgraded, and support higher resolutions than a console can.

 

[0098386]

A gaming computer is more expensive than a console, sure, but a gaming computer can do more, be upgraded, and support higher resolutions than a console can.

And offer control input options, legally download new commercial games before launch and unlock the moment they're released, have a more comprehesive online system.

That's it really - I find PC's give the players and users more options to customise the experience. I can tick a little box and use my 360 controller on TF2, complete with a reworked UI and weapon select screen, or I could use the standard keyboard and mouse. I can upgrade it to run better at resolutions higher than 1080p etc. On the other hand its just more fuss.

 

[MRU]

You can build a powerful gaming computer for under $1000.

Certainly not here you couldn't.

Using one of the cheapest component sourced for here (komplett) and matching your specs to a like wise capable machine / hardware config



Case €132

Power supply 600W €96

(kit) Quad 2.4 Core 2 Duo Intel Q6600
ASUS SLI n-force Motherboard
4GB DDR2 PC5300 667mhz €510

750gb HDD Western Digital €179

Geforce 8800GTS €382

DVD burner €35

Creative X-FI soundcard (gamer) €82

Mouse + Keyboard €50


Total = €1466 $2,133.543

As a comparison

Consoles

PS3 €399
Xbox 360 Premium €349
Wii €269
DS €149
PSP €219

All 5 of them together = €1,385 $2,015.66


As you can see - even with our inflated console prices here, I can buy all 5 machines and still be cheaper than that custom built gaming PC.

 

[takao]

Certainly not here you couldn't.

Using one of the cheapest component sourced for here (komplett) and matching your specs to a like wise capable machine / hardware config



Case €132

Power supply 600W €96

(kit) Quad 2.4 Core 2 Duo Intel Q6600
ASUS SLI n-force Motherboard
4GB DDR2 PC5300 667mhz €510

750gb HDD Western Digital €179

Geforce 8800GTS €382

DVD burner €35

Creative X-FI soundcard (gamer) €82

Mouse + Keyboard €50


Total = €1466 $2,133.543

no offense but that configuration isn't ideal.. also the 162 is also more on the expensive side for a case the 8800GTS is also way beyond the MRSP and the X-FI is hardly a requierment
369 can get you already a GTX easily .. quad core is still expensive .. for a budget version the 2160 is fine
also you don't need really an SLI board unless you also get 2 graphics cards

700-800 is easy doable if you go with a e2160 (which has an insane overclocking ability even on the boxed cooler)

GeIL DIMM 4 GB DDR2-800 Kit4096 MB, CL5 5-5-15, 2, PC2 64001€ 110,-*€ 110,-*
Arctic-Cooling Freezer 7 Pro775, 77 m³/h, alle Modelle1€ 13,99*€ 13,99*
Intel® Pentium DualCore E21602x 1800 MHz, 2x 512 kByte, 800 MHz (Quadpumped), Conroe-L1€ 61,99*€ 61,99*
Chieftec GPS-550AB550 Watt, ATX 2.03, ATX12V 2.0, EPS, 4 Stecker, 6 Stecker1€ 59,99*€ 59,99*
Sharkoon Rebel9 Value-Edition9 x 5,25" extern, 4 x 3,5" intern, ATX1€ 44,99*€ 44,99*
Sony NEC Optiarc AD-7170S18 / 8 / 8 fach, 18 / 6 / 8 fach, Serial ATA/150, 16 / 48 fach1€ 27,99*€ 27,99*
GigaByte G33-DS3RIntel® G33, 1.333 MHz, 1x PCIe x16, onboard, Sockel 7751€ 108,-*€ 108,-*
Western Digital WD7500AAKS750 GB, 8,9/16/7200, 0,21 €, Serial ATA/3001€ 154,-*€ 154,-*
Zwischensumme:€ 580,95*

and then you can add a
Radeon 3850 for 153 euro
or a
Radeon3750/8800 GT for 220
if both happen to be actually at stock
and you have quite a dandy pc where you could add a peyrn if you wanted next year