Construction on New Trade Center Tower to Begin on July 4

[MacAztec]

Really? All of them? What about those who just got caught in Jordan? Or the ones in Saudi Arabia that gunned down the oil workers? Or the ones in Spain? Don't kid yourself, even our troop commanders are saying most of the resistance they are seeing in Iraq are not foreigners they are locals who don't like us (and I can't imagine why).

Ok I am sorry mactastic. Not 'all' the terrorists. Many of the terrorists. I am just happy to see that they are fighting the troops, rather than the civilians.

But many people disagree with the war, and I see points on both sides. I do believe this war was imminent even if Bush wasn't in office (which is the argument of many...intelligent.....people).

I think if something like this would have happened 50 years ago, we would be at total war. Take pearl harbor for example. I know that it was war with another country, but this is war (in my opinion) with another religion. The extremists of that religion. Islam.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

Ok I am sorry mactastic. Not 'all' the terrorists. Many of the terrorists. I am just happy to see that they are fighting the troops, rather than the civilians.

But many people disagree with the war, and I see points on both sides. I do believe this war was imminent even if Bush wasn't in office (which is the argument of many...intelligent.....people).

I think if something like this would have happened 50 years ago, we would be at total war. Take pearl harbor for example. I know that it was war with another country, but this is war (in my opinion) with another religion. The extremists of that religion. Islam.

And that is the wisdom of Solomon.....

 

[~Shard~]

Ok I am sorry mactastic. Not 'all' the terrorists. Many of the terrorists. I am just happy to see that they are fighting the troops, rather than the civilians.

But many people disagree with the war, and I see points on both sides. I do believe this war was imminent even if Bush wasn't in office (which is the argument of many...intelligent.....people).

I think if something like this would have happened 50 years ago, we would be at total war. Take pearl harbor for example. I know that it was war with another country, but this is war (in my opinion) with another religion. The extremists of that religion. Islam.

Kay, once again, let's keep the posts on topic and not get into a big debate on terroism, war, Bush, etc. - or else this thread will get wastelanded and shut down pretty quickly. Save your political discussions for elsewhere.

I think the new Freedom Tower will be a nice addition to the New York skyline, and will at least somewhat fill in the void that currently exists there. But for me, seeing the original towers, and just being in New York again 2 weeks ago and seeing, well, the void their absence has created, I don't think downtown Manhattan's skyline will ever be the same, Freedom Tower or no Freedom Tower.

 

[MongoTheGeek]

Historically in the US we have not named places after historical events. Hence we have never had the USS Alamo, or the USS Pearl Harbor. This does not hold true for the USS Enterprise.

Also in the politically correct society, renaming the old WTC site as the new WTC site would note make people happy.

Maybe it is a an American ideal, that when there is massive death - not to use the same name.

USS Alamo commissioned 1954 decommissioned 1990 given to the Brazilian Navy.
USS Pearl Harbor (LSD 52) commisioned 1998

If the new building isn't going to be called the world trade center whatever What are the remaining buildings of the world trade center going to be called? 1,2 and 7 fell.

 

[MongoTheGeek]

I think the new Freedom Tower will be a nice addition to the New York skyline, and will at least somewhat fill in the void that currently exists there. But for me, seeing the original towers, and just being in New York again 2 weeks ago and seeing, well, the void their absence has created, I don't think downtown Manhattan's skyline will ever be the same, Freedom Tower or no Freedom Tower.

It will be an okay addition. You really need something big, crass and gaudy. Everyone said they hated the design of the old buildings, that they were too plain they were too mechanical etc. The thing is that deep down everyone knew they were right and that they were symbolic of the town.

People love the new design it doesn't belong though. i think people will say that they love it but actually hate it.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

Everyone said they hated the design of the old buildings, that they were too plain they were too mechanical etc.

The buildings were too large to ignore. And with time they became part of the city because you couldn't avoid them. I remember windsurfing out in Long Island Sound in Darien, Ct. and you could just see the top of them - pretty weird....

The new building will fit in nicely - be a bit different, but 10 years from now it will be synonymous with NYC.

D

 

[wowser]

It will be an okay addition. You really need something big, crass and gaudy. Everyone said they hated the design of the old buildings, that they were too plain they were too mechanical etc. The thing is that deep down everyone knew they were right and that they were symbolic of the town.

Fisrtly, Libeskind's design is certainly NOT crass and gaudy if this is what you mean - it is delicate and modern - the first truly modern building to go up in New York since... if you don't sount the Science Museum planetarium, about the 1930s. Secondly, the old World Trade Centre was hideous, Mies's dream gone sour and stale. Rather like the terrorist bombing on Machester in the UK, at least the destruction has allowed for the city to grow back even stronger (physically and emotionally)

 

[MongoTheGeek]

Fisrtly, Libeskind's design is certainly NOT crass and gaudy if this is what you mean - it is delicate and modern - the first truly modern building to go up in New York since... if you don't sount the Science Museum planetarium, about the 1930s. Secondly, the old World Trade Centre was hideous, Mies's dream gone sour and stale. Rather like the terrorist bombing on Machester in the UK, at least the destruction has allowed for the city to grow back even stronger (physically and emotionally)

My argument was that it wasn't crass and gaudy and should have been. The design would be perfect for Chicago or San Francisco. New York needs a heavier hand though.

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

USS Alamo commissioned 1954 decommissioned 1990 given to the Brazilian Navy.
USS Pearl Harbor (LSD 52) commisioned 1998

If the new building isn't going to be called the world trade center whatever What are the remaining buildings of the world trade center going to be called? 1,2 and 7 fell.

Thanks for the update.

Did not know that they named the LSD (Landing Ship Dock's) after such events or places.

 

[wowser]

My argument was that it wasn't crass and gaudy and should have been. The design would be perfect for Chicago or San Francisco. New York needs a heavier hand though.

Ah , which design would you have picked from the shortlist?
http://www.renewnyc.com/plan_des_dev/wtc_site/new_design_plans/default.asp

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

It will be an okay addition. You really need something big, crass and gaudy. Everyone said they hated the design of the old buildings, that they were too plain they were too mechanical etc. The thing is that deep down everyone knew they were right and that they were symbolic of the town.

People love the new design it doesn't belong though. i think people will say that they love it but actually hate it.

I don't know who everyone is.

Any building that had the stature of the WTC would certainly have critics. In the end as Mr. Anderson points out they became a part of the skyline of NYC. So will the new building.

 

[wowser]

Well, yes, it will become part of our image of what the skyline' is', but it will always stick out. And this is a good thing. I think the only other building of worth in that area is the Woolworth building - the new building will bring some life to the skyline - at the moment it looks rather dead.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

at the moment it looks rather dead.

That's just because you're used to seeing the WTC - if they had never been built you wouldn't find anything wrong with the skyline and pic out the Chrystler Building and Empire State Building, etc. as what makes NYC unique.

Its all a matter of perspective

D

 

[Chip NoVaMac]

That's just because you're used to seeing the WTC - if they had never been built you wouldn't find anything wrong with the skyline and pic out the Chrystler Building and Empire State Building, etc. as what makes NYC unique.

Its all a matter of perspective

D

The WTC site defined the sky line in many ways. From the NJ Turnpike, to the Village that the WTC overshadowed.

 

[mactastic]

It'll be ok. The Eiffel Tower was panned by critics initially, now it's the symbol of Paris. The WTC was originally panned as well, but people grew to like it. The same will happen to the new tower. My experience is that architectural critics really like to hear themselves talk.

 

[wowser]

That's just because you're used to seeing the WTC - if they had never been built you wouldn't find anything wrong with the skyline and pic out the Chrystler Building and Empire State Building, etc. as what makes NYC unique.

Its all a matter of perspective

D

Yes, and you are right, and I suppose what we now have is the pre-70s skyline.

 

[MongoTheGeek]

Ah , which design would you have picked from the shortlist?
http://www.renewnyc.com/plan_des_dev/wtc_site/new_design_plans/default.asp

United Architects, maybe the Foster one. I like the Foster one but its too crooked.

The one that was withdrawn was cool too.

None of them really struck my fancy.

 

[jxyama]

kinda funny. there's a "WTC - World Trade Center" in many cities in Europe, usually near the airport. there's one in Geneva, Munich and Vienna, as far as i know, and i'm sure there are many more.

Freedom Tower is quite tacky, imo. There's too much Patroit-this, Freedom-that. it kind of "cheapens" the noble ideas those words represent, i think.

 

[wowser]

The worst one was the Richard Meier & Partnerone. Considering how many great people were involved with the design, how did it end up looking so awful?

 

[rainman::|:|]

Can you please name one freedom that has been taken away from you? In what way are you less free?

Ah yes, gladly. It's important to remember the dead, even if they're dead liberties.

I cannot protest the president or his policies during his visits. Only those in support of the president are allowed to demonstrate or assemble (This is a violation of the 1st amendment). All political dissidents are removed to "free speech zones", in some cases miles from the event location. I witnessed this firsthand a few weeks ago.

I am not allowed to have privacy on telephones or electronic communication. Several government agencies have started programs that eavesdrop on citizens, sometimes at random, looking for "terrorist intelligence". Police are no longer required to obtain warrants to tap phone/internet lines. Any intelligence gathered can be used against me for any reason, not just terrorist-related charges.

I am not technically allowed to have a container of household bleach under my kitchen sink. Such items are "chemical weapons of mass destruction". Of course, they're obviously not such weapons, but under the definition of "chemical weapons of mass destruction", most household chemicals could result in federal terrorism charges. That the government has not persued such a case does not matter, they could do so with no hinderances.

I am not allowed access to an attorney if I am ever charged with terrorist-related crimes (such as the aforementioned bleach). Right now, I believe they're simply allowed to withhold attorney access for longer, but it's very fuzzy.

I am not allowed to donate to a variety of charaties because the government could claim that they fund terrorists, meaning I would be directly responsible for supporting terrorists. This one *has* happened before.

There are more, but I think this makes the point well. This is why I don't like the name "Freedom Tower".

paul

 

[cornboy]

Freedom Tower

I think that "Freedom Tower" is a good name. On 9/11 the terrorists sought to take away our freedom, the way it is done in Islamic countries such as the governments of former Afghanistan & Iraq. In the war on terrorism we are fighting for our freedom. Our country was founded on freedom and we have fought many wars for the same concept.

I look forward to seeing a Tower rising again over Manhattan.

As a European that lives pretty much in the shadow of the WTC site (quite a short shadow right now) I feel bound to take issue with this perspective. Aside from the fact that most terrorism is a reflection of the extreme views and machinations of relatively few individuals, there can be little doubt that whoever was responsible for the WTC atrocity it was certainly not done for the purpose of removing 'freedom' from Americans or anyone else. The Christian and Jewish agenda has been visited upon the world for several centuries now but there are now many millions that feel that there is an excessive obsession with and influence exerted by the pursuit of wealth instead of harmony.

It is almost certain that the ill-judged reaction of the 'coalition of the willing' (i.e. Bush and his puppy Blair) will again destabilise the middle east, despite the warnings of the unfashionable but well-informed political elite. The West needs an enemy to justify its freedom-crushing invasions of privacy and excessive military expenditure. The real 'freedom removers' here are those businessmen and politicians that know that the money that fuels this conflict comes from Saudi Arabia, New York and Israel but refuse to grasp the nettle, because to do so would mean losing the money and influence whose pursuit begat the hatred and mistrust in the first place. If you are in any doubt then check out the miserable, 2-faced actions of the US in Ethiopia and East Africa during the Cold War. This was the emotional anvil on which so many terrorists were hewn.

 

[cornboy]

Kay, once again, let's keep the posts on topic and not get into a big debate on terroism, war, Bush, etc. - or else this thread will get wastelanded and shut down pretty quickly. Save your political discussions for elsewhere.

I think the new Freedom Tower will be a nice addition to the New York skyline, and will at least somewhat fill in the void that currently exists there. But for me, seeing the original towers, and just being in New York again 2 weeks ago and seeing, well, the void their absence has created, I don't think downtown Manhattan's skyline will ever be the same, Freedom Tower or no Freedom Tower.

well the new York skyline is certainly a lot prettier without them. tragedy that it took such an atocity to accomplish something so aesthetically necessary.

 

[wowser]

well the new York skyline is certainly a lot prettier without them. tragedy that it took such an atocity to accomplish something so aesthetically necessary.

HAHA Yes! I stand what i said about Manchester - It gets city planners arses into gear!

 

[MatMistake]

the new tower is a lovely building, the Chrysler building is still the best looking in the city though.
its a shame this new tower got f***ed with though. from what I've heard the owner of the site wanted the main tower nearer the subway station, as that somehow makes it worth more. its only like a couple of hundred feet or something, and it manages to screw up the design. americans have really got to get this walking thing figured out

I'll keep my views on the name to myself...

 

[wowser]

the new tower is a lovely building, the Chrysler building is still the best looking in the city though.
its a shame this new tower got f***ed with though. from what I've heard the owner of the site wanted the main tower nearer the subway station, as that somehow makes it worth more. its only like a couple of hundred feet or something, and it manages to screw up the design. americans have really got to get this walking thing figured out

I'll keep my views on the name to myself...

Here here!