'Consumer Reports' Holds Strong on iPhone 4 Non-Recommendation

[hogo]

and who cares...

 

[hogo]

same here

me three

 

[igazza]

5 days 19 hours of talking on my iphone 4

2 dropped calls i can remember

 

[justbuyamac]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_4; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.8 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.1 Safari/533.17.8)

A non-issue for the 3 iPhones in my account. We have used cases on all iPhones we've had.

Sounds like CR is trolling for free publicity. Antenna and reception issues have been an issue with all cell phones from the very beginning.

 

[NebulaClash]

No one has offered to have an Apple Rep come out to my house to pick up my iPhone 4 to fit the case, because that's unreasonable.

Right, and what Apple has proposed doing is very reasonable. They have a product that works well for the majority of users. It's the highest-rated phone CR tested. For a few people, there is an issue. All summer long Apple has allowed everyone, those with the issue and all of those with no problems, to have a free case. Now they are saying you've had plenty of time to get your free case, now we will just give it to those who, you know, actually need one. Just let us know, and you get the bumper free. How on earth is that hard?

Meanwhile they are going to alter the design of the phone so that even this issue will go away for future models.

What does CR want? A total recall? For what? Most people have no issue, there is no danger, the few people who have the issue get a free solution, what would be the point of doing it any other way?

Auto manufacturers publicize the issue, make a solution possible, but it's up to the car's owner to approach the dealership to get that free solution. CR sez this is a good thing.

Apple publicizes the issue, makes a solution possible, but it's up to the phone's owner to approach Apple to get that free solution. CR sez this is unacceptable.

All other phone manufacturers get ignored.

Hypocrisy.

 

[azentropy]

Right, and what Apple has proposed doing is very reasonable. They have a product that works well for the majority of users.

CR disagrees. So if a product works most of the time for most people that is good enough to recommend? They are saying they don't recommend it.

Meanwhile they are going to alter the design of the phone so that even this issue will go away for future models.

Which does not affect this model, so they should change their recommendation based on what future models may or may not fix?

What does CR want? A total recall? For what? Most people have no issue, there is no danger, the few people who have the issue get a free solution, what would be the point of doing it any other way?

In order for them to recommend it, yes. Or at least include the case at time of purchase. They have stated this.

Auto manufacturers publicize the issue, make a solution possible, but it's up to the car's owner to approach the dealership to get that free solution. CR sez this is a good thing.

Apple publicizes the issue, makes a solution possible, but it's up to the phone's owner to approach Apple to get that free solution. CR sez this is unacceptable.

No, you are missing the point. Yes auto manufactures have recalls all the time and yes the customer has to come in to get it fixed on previous purchases. HOWEVER, they also fix all NEW automobiles before continue to sell to new customers. Apple isn't doing that, and that is CR's complaint.

 

[BaldiMac]

As far as the car comparisons go, I actually had an issue that is on point (as opposed to comparing a safety recall to a reception issue.)

I had a 2006 Acura TSX which got poor stereo reception because of an internal antenna. The official response was that it was "working as designed." They offered one year of satellite radio to anyone who complained about it.

Sounds a lot like Apple's response!

 

[NebulaClash]

No, you are missing the point. Yes auto manufactures have recalls all the time and yes the customer has to come in to get it fixed on previous purchases. HOWEVER, they also fix all NEW automobiles before continue to sell to new customers. Apple isn't doing that, and that is CR's complaint.

If it was a safety issue, as with cars, Apple would do the same thing. But it's not, so it's silly to to conflate the two. That was not the intent of my analogy, and that's being missed by those focusing on the trees.

 

[Mr Bigs]

bmustaf

I agree with you on the points that Apple does need a reminder of where it stands in the consumer/producer relationship every now and then, just as any other company does. Consumer Reports generally does a good job with facilitating this. I'd much rather a major publication start taking Apple to task about not allowing sideloading/locking down the device though to be honest.

My issue, from a personal viewpoint as an iPhone and Android user, is the way the iPhone4 antenna issue was approached and in my opinion blown out of proportion in terms of the net effect.

Yes the phone suffers a -20dB attenuation when you hold the device and bridge that antenna. My HTC Desire gave me a -14dB attenuation when I held it in one hand and my Galaxy S gives me -18dB when holding it in one hand. The only difference is that the attenuation on the iPhone4 is possible by simply bridging that antenna with your pinky finger rather than needing to hold the device.

The point there is that how often does someone do that where they lay a device on a table and touch that particular spot with a pinky finger? Or why would someone do that? The issue is that the signal attenuates when the device is held. But every phone suffers that to some degree, with even phones that have internal antennas giving comparable attenuation when held in your hand.

They focused quite a bit on "if I touch the device just like this when it's laying down it gives me the attenuation" despite the fact no one does that. They should have looked at it from a net user experience, where "does a -20dB attenuation make a phone not recommendable compared to a phone with only a -15dB attenuation" being the more deciding factor.

To me personally, I can't see how someone can recommend a phone that gives you -15 to -18dB attenuation when held and then not recommend a phone that gives you -20dB simply because it can also be reproduced by touching a marked spot with your pinky if the device is laying on a table. That's not to say that Apple should be proud that their phone also attenuates (and usually more so by varying degrees), but where's the cutoff?

Is -19dB the maximum allowable attenuation before you say something isn't recommendable? I think that's a fair question to ask.

How many of those devices actually loose service because of a grip ?

 

[Aleco]

I don't see this hurting iPhone 4 sales, not one bit. Who even listens to CR these days?

 

[azentropy]

If it was a safety issue, as with cars, Apple would do the same thing. But it's not, so it's silly to to conflate the two. That was not the intent of my analogy, and that's being missed by those focusing on the trees.

Not all auto recalls are for safety issues. The point is Apple DID NOT FIX the issue with the new iPhone's they are selling, again something automobile manufactures are expected to do regardless of it is a safety issue or not. It doesn't matter how many or few people have the issue, the issue exists and they did not issue a permanent, non-interactive and satisfactory fix for CR's to recommend the product.

I have the issue as the signal in my area from AT&T sucks. I'm fine with using a case as I planned on using one anyway. But if someone in my area wanted an iPhone 4 and does like or want a case, then I wouldn't recommend it to them.

 

[NebulaClash]

Not all auto recalls are for safety issues. The point is Apple DID NOT FIX the issue with the new iPhone's they are selling, again something automobile manufactures are expected to do regardless of it is a safety issue or not. It doesn't matter how many or few people have the issue, the issue exists and they did not issue a permanent, non-interactive and satisfactory fix for CR's to recommend the product.

I have the issue as the signal in my area from AT&T sucks. I'm fine with using a case as I planned on using one anyway. But if someone in my area wanted an iPhone 4 and does like or want a case, then I wouldn't recommend it to them.

And I would recommend the iPhone 4 to everyone I know, almost all of whom use a case no matter what phone they have.

Let's drop the car analogy, it's causing more trouble than my point is worth. Apple did not fix the issue YET, but they said they would. What would you have them do in the meantime? What would CR have them do? No doubt a product recall which would be silly overkill. Apple's solution is simple, free, and easy.

 

[Glideslope]

When will it stop??

Jan 2011.

 

[azentropy]

And I would recommend the iPhone 4 to everyone I know, almost all of whom use a case no matter what phone they have.

Let's drop the car analogy, it's causing more trouble than my point is worth. Apple did not fix the issue YET, but they said they would. What would you have them do in the meantime? What would CR have them do? No doubt a product recall which would be silly overkill. Apple's solution is simple, free, and easy.

CR wants them to include a free case in the box at the time of purchase. Isn't that a MORE "simple, free, and easy" solution than what Apple did and are now doing away with? Apple's solution is no longer "simple, free and easy" after Sep. 30th. BTW - it took 7 weeks for me to receive my case.

 

[NebulaClash]

CR wants them to include a free case in the box at the time of purchase. Isn't that a MORE "simple, free, and easy" solution than what Apple did and are now doing away with? Apple's solution is no longer "simple, free and easy" after Sep. 30th. BTW - it took 7 weeks for me to receive my case.

Yes, that would be even simpler. I don't view this as a big enough problem to make me indignant that Apple didn't go that extra step, but I guess if you are one of the few who have a real world problem with the iPhone 4 it feels much worse to you, and I can understand that.

Whenever there is a consumer product that does not work for a percentage of its users, that percentage is up in arms and everyone else wonders what the fuss is about.

 

[sappy1]

I don't see how. I saw it being reported on the national evening newscasts and on the front pages of newspapers. How much more reporting could there possibly have been?

On TV, everyone was reporting that the antenna was affected only if you touched it at the black stripes. For me, touching the antenna almost anywhere made the signal go down.

 

[Digital Dude]

Antenna gate was blown out of proportion

It really was a non issue.

However I do enjoy my free case

Frankly, it was that very item that made this an issue. Had Apple never offered a case, it wouldn't have been 'perceived' as such a fuss. It was the perception of the case that made folks feel as though the iPhone-4 had a problem.

Sidebar: As part of the Apple ecosystem I feel the iPhone-4 is simply wonderful. As a smartphone device, I’d rather have the upcoming Nokia E7/N9? Meego keyboard slider.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Right, and what Apple has proposed doing is very reasonable.

You're right. Making the consumer deal with their flawed product and not even apologizing for selling a fuxored product is VERY reasonable.

They have a product that works well for the majority of users.

Yes, most users are right-handed.

It's the highest-rated phone CR tested.

Ok, you admit that CR gave it a fair review...more than fair. It's the highest-rate phone ever....

What does CR want?

A real fix.

A total recall?

I'd call that reasonable given ALL iPhones have the problem. Some people don't experience the problem simply because they are right-handed and don't hold their hand over that part of the phone. That doesn't mean the phone isn't flawed. Would you want a car that has no transmission problems as long as you never shift into 3rd gear?

"But you can SKIP 3rd and go straight to 4th! I always shift that way! I have NO problems with my car!"

For what? Most people have no issue, there is no danger, the few people who have the issue get a free solution, what would be the point of doing it any other way?

I dunno. Some people think defective products ought to be fixed and not just given excuses by fanboys whose greatest daily activity is to light incense at Steve's alter in their basement.

Auto manufacturers publicize the issue, make a solution possible, but it's up to the car's owner to approach the dealership to get that free solution. CR sez this is a good thing.

You can't mail a new part to owner and expect them to put it on. Your comparison is beyond absurd.

Apple publicizes the issue, makes a solution possible, but it's up to the phone's owner to approach Apple to get that free solution. CR sez this is unacceptable.

They "sez" that do they? While I be sure and tellz 'um da truth, yo, not just hock Steve's warez fo him.

All other phone manufacturers get ignored.

Hypocrisy.

I would say it's more like irony that certain people think that a consumer orientated magazine ought to ignore their base and give corporations free advertising and LIE to the consumer about flaws the products have and say they dont' exist and that everyone should buy their product while they take money under the table in the form of advertising (how most magazines accept "bribes" from corporate sponsors; just look in any stereo magazine. They won't ever badmouth advertisers' products because they know the advertisers won't buy any more ads from their magazine so you get bullcrap "reviews" that do nothing more than advertise for the company buying their ads instead of telling the consumer how it actually performs. CR does not do this. They don't take advertising for precisely that reason. It's a complete conflict of interests.

But you seem to think CR should take Apple's dime (or just do it for free) and hide their defects and give a full recommendation on a product that is clearly defective and should have been recalled an FIXED not just covered up with cases that they no longer wish to include. Apple has given themselves bad PR on this issue by not doing what needs to be done, all in the name of saving them money when they've got more than enough cash to make things right for everyone. But why should they when they have groupies that go out on the web and make excuses for them 24/7?

 

[NebulaClash]

Such a rude response deserves a rude retort, but I'll leave it up as an example of what Apple users face.

I get called a groupie and someone who lights candles for Steve Jobs in my basement, yet I'm the guy who admitted there is a flaw that needs to be fixed, that Apple says they are going to fix, and has a program in place to freely help all affected owners today. Such logic is ignored and instead I'm called names. End of discussion. The anti-Apple attacks are beginning.

I'm still a subscriber to CR. Their tech coverage has sucked for years, but their other tests are better.

 

[Starfires]

But Who Cares?

Anyone who wants to enjoy one of, if not the best smart phone in existence will get the iPone 4 and just use a flippin' case on it, as everyone I know does on their 3GS's anyway! It's true it's a design flaw and one that the free case program was a good solution for... and even truer that a remodel is a better solution, especially for Apple (though I love the beautiful Griffin Etch graphite case I got through them).

Basically this is the best, most useful device I've ever owned- the screen looks like it was painted on. To not recommend it rather than recommend it 'with reservations' seems a bit dogmatic of them. I respect their view, but I, certainly, recommend the 4.

 

[aluni]

You're right. Making the consumer deal with their flawed product and not even apologizing for selling a fuxored product is VERY reasonable.



Yes, most users are right-handed.



Ok, you admit that CR gave it a fair review...more than fair. It's the highest-rate phone ever....



A real fix.



I'd call that reasonable given ALL iPhones have the problem. Some people don't experience the problem simply because they are right-handed and don't hold their hand over that part of the phone. That doesn't mean the phone isn't flawed. Would you want a car that has no transmission problems as long as you never shift into 3rd gear?

"But you can SKIP 3rd and go straight to 4th! I always shift that way! I have NO problems with my car!"



I dunno. Some people think defective products ought to be fixed and not just given excuses by fanboys whose greatest daily activity is to light incense at Steve's alter in their basement.



You can't mail a new part to owner and expect them to put it on. Your comparison is beyond absurd.



They "sez" that do they? While I be sure and tellz 'um da truth, yo, not just hock Steve's warez fo him.



I would say it's more like irony that certain people think that a consumer orientated magazine ought to ignore their base and give corporations free advertising and LIE to the consumer about flaws the products have and say they dont' exist and that everyone should buy their product while they take money under the table in the form of advertising (how most magazines accept "bribes" from corporate sponsors; just look in any stereo magazine. They won't ever badmouth advertisers' products because they know the advertisers won't buy any more ads from their magazine so you get bullcrap "reviews" that do nothing more than advertise for the company buying their ads instead of telling the consumer how it actually performs. CR does not do this. They don't take advertising for precisely that reason. It's a complete conflict of interests.

But you seem to think CR should take Apple's dime (or just do it for free) and hide their defects and give a full recommendation on a product that is clearly defective and should have been recalled an FIXED not just covered up with cases that they no longer wish to include. Apple has given themselves bad PR on this issue by not doing what needs to be done, all in the name of saving them money when they've got more than enough cash to make things right for everyone. But why should they when they have groupies that go out on the web and make excuses for them 24/7?

so the iphone 4 is their highest rated phone ever, based on their tests and they do not recommend it. Doesn't that mean they need to fix their rating system?

Point is that it IS their best phone. So Apple set out to make the best phone and CR's own testing validates that!

Looks to me like if you can't recommend your best product, then it isn't your best product!



You like others who have bought into the google backed media campaign are totally dismissive of the top rating the phone actually got from CR and only focusing on the cannot recommend aspect. If CR cannot recommend their best product, then their rating system is flawed. End of story. Why should apple recall the top rated product in history!

I am left handed and have absolutely no issues with the iphone 4.

 

[aluni]

Ok, you admit that CR gave it a fair review...more than fair. It's the highest-rate phone ever....



A should they when they have groupies that go out on the web and make excuses for them 24/7?

so what you are saying is that if you want to buy the best smart phone according to consumer reports it would be the iphone 4.

so you are agreeing that the iphone 4 is the best smart phone out there.

because if you don't believe it is the best smart phone, then it means you don't agree with consumer reports. So you are in the same boat with those who do not agree with consumer reports...

so you either defend consumer reports and also agree the iphone 4 is the best phone ever or disagree with them, which puts you in the same boat as those who you accuse of being less than you are.

apple set out to make the best phone....according to consumer reports they succeeded. accept that fact and move on.

 

[neonmd]

It is the best handheld device I have ever used. I could go on about most every feature but here is maybe my favorite. I have used the phone now for 2 days straight(I work that long about 5 times a month) and I still haven't dropped below 20% battery. This feature alone makes it unreal when you think of everything it does.
No case for me.
Can definitely make my bars drop in weak signal areas.
Has never affected my use of the phone or anything else.
Definitely recommend.
Dropped my subscription to Consumer Reports.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

so the iphone 4 is their highest rated phone ever, based on their tests and they do not recommend it. Doesn't that mean they need to fix their rating system?

No, it means the product has an intermittent defect unrelated to the otherwise stellar performance.

Point is that it IS their best phone. So Apple set out to make the best phone and CR's own testing validates that!

You don't seem to know the difference between a terminal defect and a high performing product. If a Toyota vehicle tests better than anything else out there in every normal category yet has a defect that while rare could kill you (i.e. no brakes or massive unintended acceleration), some readers JUST MIGHT want to know about that defect. And a magazine could in no good conscience recommend a vehicle that has a potentially fatal flaw even if in every other area it's wonderful. While the iPhone is not a "fatal" flaw, it is a potentially terminal one. If the thing is constantly dropping calls simply because you naturally tend to cover the antenna with your hand (for whatever reason), you should probably be aware of this. Given all previous iPhones did not have this problem, it SHOULD be pointed out so consumers can make an INFORMED DECISION.

But you and the other apologists on here (and that's being nice) seem to think they should ignore massive defects or that their tests are somehow flawed even though this is not a normal "testable" function. It's an intermittent DEFECT that Apple admits exists yet they do not seem to want to fix. If Toyota came out and said "we know some of our cars will potentially accelerate out of control, but we've decided we won't fix it but instead will wait for you to call us after you've discovered YOUR car has that problem" (assuming you survive it when it happens to you), I think there would be a more than a bit of uproar.... Oh wait. THAT is EXACTLY what they did and that's exactly what happened.

Don't worry. I don't expect you or any of the other Apple apologists to "get" it. You're too in love with Steve and Apple to think logically at this point. All you know is that people are ragging on the love of your life and you want it to stop!

You like others who have bought into the google backed media campaign are totally dismissive of the top rating the phone actually got from CR and only focusing on the cannot recommend aspect. If CR cannot recommend their best product, then their rating system is flawed. End of story. Why should apple recall the top rated product in history!

So now there's a Google conspiracy as well? LOL.

All it comes down to is that defective products should be fixed by the companies that make them. Apple doesn't want to do it because they are greedy. They don't want to support their computers for more than two years these days for the same reason. They are greedy. They want you to keep buying more products more often. They don't care about long-term customers anymore because they want repeat short-term customers instead. Just wait for iPhone 5. That one will fix it. iTunes 10 is buggy as heck and crashes your computer all the time? Just wait for iTunes 11 to fix it, but be prepared to buy a new computer to use it because it won't work on anything older than Snow Leopard. Sorry, but that's not good business and it's starting to alienate some of us big time.

so what you are saying is that if you want to buy the best smart phone according to consumer reports it would be the iphone 4.

so you are agreeing that the iphone 4 is the best smart phone out there.

because if you don't believe it is the best smart phone, then it means you don't agree with consumer reports. So you are in the same boat with those who do not agree with consumer reports...

so you either defend consumer reports and also agree the iphone 4 is the best phone ever or disagree with them, which puts you in the same boat as those who you accuse of being less than you are.

apple set out to make the best phone....according to consumer reports they succeeded. accept that fact and move on.

Ok, based on your double post and complete illogic I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess your age is rather, shall we say, very young because what you are saying makes about as much sense as saying someone who is against drunk driving is against alcohol as well because they're so obviously mutually exclusive.

 

[elmo151]

CR often solves the wrong problems. Its rarely disclosed criteria are often off the mark.
did they compare the iPhone to the competition?