Contract and Subsidy Issues for iPhone Users Looking to Upgrade to iPhone 3G S

[Roessnakhan]

oh please. Apple and ATT care about as much about this sort of thing as the networks do when they cancel a tv show. which is to say that they don't.

Actually to be fair, petitions have worked for some TV shows (e.g. Arrested Development). But I still think a petition for ATT/Apple is futile.

 

[str1f3]

if you mean a CDMA, no they won't. Apple has been very clear on this issue. they picked GSM to avoid making multiple models.

Now what they will likely do at some point is unlock the phone so that any company that supports the correct technology can be used. so in the US at this point that is ATT and T-Mobile. As the tech updates and moves into whatever will be 4g, if Verizon and Sprint choose to go that way (and apparently Verizon is researching the issue even now) then you are go to go.

The downside to the unlock/any carrier issue is that you might only be able to buy the handset at Apple for full retail which will be in the range of $499-699 likely. Upside to that is that it seems a lot if not most states have a law that if you provide the phone and the carrier just the service, they can't make you sign a termed contract or charge you an ETF cause they claim those two items are to recover device costs they paid. and since US law says you own your number til you give it up, you could then bounce providers to the best offer whenever you want

First off Apple has been known to change their mind when the situation suits them whether it be a ipod video, allowing third parties to develop apps, or firewire in a macbook.

It is pointless to offer the ability to use T-Mobile because they have just as much trouble as AT&T in 3G coverage. It would serve no one's interests to offer it to only GSM in the US. There already have been rumors going around from well respected journalists (including WSJ) that there is ongoing talks with Verizon. Also, Apple is a very tight lipped company. When they publicly mock a partner it is very telling. They would never do this w/o a reason. Comments like those generally speak of an ending of a relationship and not an emerging closeness.

so what is your job at Apple. you must work there if you know why they came out with the $99 8gb

perhaps the answer is simply that they marked down an existing model that they likely had a ton of stock on cause folks were so certain there would be a new phone that they stopped buying the current models. knocking down the price was a way to try to get rid of the phones into the market instead of eating the cost and profit by scrapping them.

Do you need a job at Apple to make a well informed opinion? How many people do you think are :

-willing to switch carriers to which they also show a devotion (some can't because it is the only reception they get) and
-pay $199-$299 for subsidized phone when they switch over

Analysts may not know what they are talking about when they come to rumors but they do know how to properly forecast future product sales. It is their job. To a one, every analyst says that the available pool of potential Apple customers is getting smaller whether it because of carrier devotion or price, especially in a bad economy. Everybody is not willing to buy a smartphone especially when you consider the pricing of AT&T plans with a up front price of $199.

It's an asinine statement to make saying that they are doing this solely to run down their current crop of 3G iPhones. Apple has been known for years as a company who manages their warehouse inventory to a couple of weeks and not a couple of months. That is the strength and gift of Tim Cook. They would not have made a formal announcement at WWDC that they were keeping a certain model. Instead every tech blog, a couple of days after WWDC, would have published that AT&T was continuing to sell iPhone 3g's at $99. The truth is that they know they are running low on the available switchers at the $199 price point. The only way to bring in new customers is to make it more attractive to them at a $99 price point.

at this point, yes they probably have. remember that the Mac products come from a long line of research dating back a couple of decades. and there is a lot of similar art they can refer to

the phone was a fresh new product unlike any other and the research is only perhaps 5 years old at the most.

so within the last 5 years they have probably spent more time and money on the phone than the Macs. because they needed to.

Do you work at Apple? If so tell me when they're coming out with the tablet? I'm sure that they haven't been working on unibody Macbooks w/ multitouch for 20 years.

I don't think that they are spending considerably more on the iPhone. As I have said before, Apple has introduced more innovation to their Macbook line than they have to the iPhone when it was introduced. It is a ridiculous notion that they need to charge 3x the money the iPhone is worth to recoup 2 1/2 years worth of development costs. Remember, the iPhone is essentially an iPod touch with a cellular radio inside. They have been also making back development costs with the iPod Touch. The difference between the top end unsubsidized iPhone and the GB equivalent iPod touch is now $100 and soon to be $200 in September which is the normal price differential. There is no way an iPhone cost $200 more and 10% of monthly AT&T revenues from the iPhone if you're including development costs or not.

The problem is here that if I mentioned someone like Nokia people would agree that the unsubsidized prices are expensive and this industry has serious price gouging issues. As soon as Apple's name is mentioned, everybody is an apologist. I may be a fanboy but I'm not blind also. I don't do denial.

 

[GoCubsGo]

Thats usually if you cancel in 30 days, then they bill you for the hardware. But given its an iPhone, I can VERY well see that happening now.

I am fairly certain that these yahoos who are adding second lines just to get the phone now are going to soon be starting a thread about how they were charged full price by their carriers after canceling the second line.

 

[chr1s60]

do you really think they want to be forever on ATT. probably not. But it is very likely that ATT fronted some R&D funds and this exclusive contract paying it off, like of like how your two year contract pays off device subsidies.

I'm not saying Apple wants to stay with AT&T forever, but I do think Apple likes the idea of being exclusive with a single carrier. Mainly because it helps them get more money when negotiating with a carrier because the iPhone has had such a pull in getting new customers. At this point, unless the opening 3GS sales really bomb, Apple is pretty much in the driver seat for negotiations with any carrier in the US. Due to this they have the option of negotiating for things that a carrier might not consider for any other cell phone company.

 

[pavelbure]

personally I hope they keep their stance. More iphones available for me on day 1.

But seriously, you 3g owners know you signed a 2 year contract, I don't understand why many of you just can't understand that they will lose money by giving you another upgrade so soon. they are not in the business to provide you with all your tech needs for half price.

this petition should crash and burn. some of you act like you never dealt with a contract before and want something for nothing. sadly this is a typical attitude these days.

 

[.:R2theT]

Apple had a clear idea of how many phones they could sell which is why they offered a subsidized version. You act as if there is an unknown. You could always buy the unsubsidized version. Look at this forum and guess which one a vast majority of the people bought. Not only that but they are complaining about the price of a unsubsidized iPhone. If Apple felt that they would never have to worry about sales, they would never have offered a $99 iPhone. When you are speaking of the $99 iPhone you are glossing over the fact that it is price that makes it attractive to customers.

I'm not glossing over anything. Of course the price is what makes it attractive. My point is that Apple is using the $99 price point to lure people to the line. Then when it comes time to upgrade, the people will be hooked into the ecosystem and continue on with higher priced models(in theory). Plus, I am sure Apple still makes at least $200 more off the month plan over the course of the 2 year contract.

I may not know what Apple has spent in R&D but anyone can see that it is not anything close to the sales it has made on the iPhone. This is not some rare internal architecture. Most of the parts are "off the shelf" where they order it from manufacturers that put in the R&D to make those parts. Not only that, but from sheer volume alone, the manufacturing costs of the iPhone must be lower than it initially cost to make two years ago.

You are probably right. And good for Apple for monetizing economies of scale. Apple's shareholder should expect nothing less.

As to the 3g services, you are missing the point. Anybody buying an iPhone today will have to pay for a 3g plan whether or not they think it is worth it. And with those 3g pricies, you are essentially not allowed to watch streaming video on the service. Most iPhone owners don't think the AT&T service is worth but they pay it. There is nobody who thinks that SMS's in the mobile industry are worth it but they will still buy it to use it. There is nobody who thinks tethering prices are fair when you are essentially paying again for data that you already purchased. They will still purchase it anyway. Just because a person buys something does not mean they think it is worth the price. Those are two different ideas which are not mutually exclusive. Again, look at this thread of Apple loyalists and see if they think the unsubsidized iPhone price is worth it. I have an iPhone 3g. I may love the product but I don't think it is worth the unsubsidized price.

You are right that services and devices get hobbled by most carriers in collusion with device makers. But it is disingenuous to say people don't see the value in these services or devices. And here's why:

No one NEEDS a cell phone with wireless data or any of the new features that consumers are coming to expect.

It is strictly a want and if people don't want to pay for these products and service they do not have to.

You b!tch that things are too expensive but the reality is you just want something and don't want to pay what the market will support. If you don't think it is worth it then don't purchase the goods and services. That is the only way to make an impact. You vote with your purchases. And, apparently, you are currently voting for something you do not value. Your argument is flimsy. You just don't have the fortitude to say that this isn't worth your money and you aren't going to purchase it. You purchase and whine that the system is taking advantage of you. You are the one making the choice. You are only a victim of yourself. Sorry.

 

[str1f3]

You are right that services and devices get hobbled by most carriers in collusion with device makers. But it is disingenuous to say people don't see the value in these services or devices. And here's why:

No one NEEDS a cell phone with wireless data or any of the new features that consumers are coming to expect.

It is strictly a want and if people don't want to pay for these products and service they do not have to.

You b!tch that things are too expensive but the reality is you just want something and don't want to pay what the market will support. If you don't think it is worth it then don't purchase the goods and services. That is the only way to make an impact. You vote with your purchases. And, apparently, you are currently voting for something you do not value. Your argument is flimsy. You just don't have the fortitude to say that this isn't worth your money and you aren't going to purchase it. You purchase and whine that the system is taking advantage of you. You are the one making the choice. You are only a victim of yourself. Sorry.

First off your argument is a general statement. You are saying that the market will determine a products' worth. That is simply not true in some cases where there are serious problems. An example is gas. We have seen that gas prices sharply surge from 2001-07 due to manipulation by speculators. People did not stop buying fuel because it was too expensive. While you may say that gas is an important commodity, it is not necessary for most people to use. Most can walk or take a bus/train. It took gov't regulation to stabilize the market and that is the reason you see the price drop. The same can be said for the housing crisis that killed the economy. People can always rent and not own. The only solution you will hear is for gov't regulation. We have seen in these examples what happens when there is massive de-regulation. Corporate greed. The fact is this is not simply an economy in this country or the world economy where the market determines a products' worth.

Secondly, you have just stated that you agree with me that there is some collusion between handset manufacturers and the carriers. So you're going to tell me it's OK to artificially inflate prices because a small percentage of the population is willing to buy it? Smartphones are not just expenditures for the wealthy and middle class. We are going to be using these more & more. Every year more people are ditching their landlines in favor of just using a phone. Smartphones are going to become the future. Chances are 20 years from now no one will be using a dumb phone. Smartphones are now replacing many devices from something as simple as a calculator to something as complex as a GPS NAV system. Everyone will eventually use them.

Now you can go on and say that I'm bitching and whining, but I've never had a problem affording an unsubsidized price nor did I want to upgrade. I can afford those prices. By the way, how do you know what I need and don't need? I do need a smartphone for work. Am I not allowed to buy something and still disagree with the price? Don't pretend to know my situation when you don't. What you do not understand that many business people who don't get their smartphones paid for by their companies need one. Who the hell are you to say who needs one and who doesn't? You don't think a smartphone can help a student? Especially the iPhone?

You can go on and admit to collusion and somehow at the same time believe those that they are priced accurately. I don't live under those illusions.

 

[.:R2theT]

Secondly, you have just stated that you agree with me that there is some collusion between handset manufacturers and the carriers. So you're going to tell me it's OK to artificially inflate prices because a small percentage of the population is willing to buy it? Smartphones are not just expenditures for the wealthy and middle class. We are going to be using these more & more. Every year more people are ditching their landlines in favor of just using a phone. Smartphones are going to become the future. Chances are 20 years from now no one will be using a dumb phone. Smartphones are now replacing many devices from something as simple as a calculator to something as complex as a GPS NAV system. Everyone will eventually use them.

I won't speak to your ideas correlating energy needs and smart phones. I am sure it would make an interesting thesis project though.

Now you can go on and say that I'm bitching and whining, but I've never had a problem affording an unsubsidized price nor did I want to upgrade. I can afford those prices. By the way, how do you know what I need and don't need? I do need a smartphone for work. Am I not allowed to buy something and still disagree with the price? Don't pretend to know my situation when you don't. What you do not understand that many business people who don't get their smartphones paid for by their companies need one. Who the hell are you to say who needs one and who doesn't? You don't think a smartphone can help a student? Especially the iPhone?

I never said you couldn't afford any of these goods and/or services. Nor do I know your situation or do I pretend to. But you can't of make these purchases of your own free will and say that you are not fueling the pricing. Just look at this week. If you had waited to purchase your 3G iPhone until now you would be able to get it for $99 plus the plan and such. That sounds like people do have a choice on price. The only difference is time. And just to reiterate, these devices make our life richer. They in no way are a necessity. These types of things are technical innovation and such deserve to be left to market forces. You feel so abused by these companies, then I suggest you deny them your patronage.

You can go on and admit to collusion and somehow at the same time believe those that they are priced accurately. I don't live under those illusions.

Setting prices, as Apple and AT&T are doing, is driven by demand. Unfortunately a lot(millions) of people are driving demand for these devices and services. Not every one can afford them. You and I are apparently blessed and get to enjoy them.

I really am sorry if you feel I was reading too much into what you are typing. IMO, your argument just comes off conflicted.

"These things are too expensive but I buy them anyway." Sorry it just sounds like victim talk. And that, I think, is a lot of what this whole thread has been about. Not all, but a lot. As if people cannot help themselves and Apple and AT&T are the big, bad dealers on the corner.

We make choices people. Stand by your choices. Or in the future make different ones.

 

[dohspc]

Would I like the iPhone 3Gs 32gig for 299 even though I bought the 16 gig at launch last year? Yes of course but I paid 499 for the fist iphone 16 gig so that's how I can justify buying the upgraded 32gig for that much. Plus who wants to be seen with an old iPhone 3G sheesh. lol

 

[surferfromuk]

Slightly off topic, sorry, but this just occured to me....

I paid £260 for my first gen 1 phone with no subsidy...
On the apple website an 8gb iPhone3G costs £343 on PAYG
On the O2 website a 32gb iPhone3GS costs £538 on PAYG

This phone is getting very expensive!!!
The 3G was £93 more expensive than the original Edge phone with no more storage, and the 3GS is £185 more expensive than the 3G, ok a lot more storage but even so surely the NAND prices would have come down over the years...?

To put it another way...

A 8gb iPod Touch is £165.
This means the original 8gb iphone was £100 more expensive than the Touch equivilent. Fair enough.

A 32gb iPod Touch is £283
This means the current 32gb iphone is £255 more expensive than it's Touch equivilent!!!!

Conclusion: We are paying an extra £155 for a compass (about £2.50 in any hardware store), an extra 1MP on your camera and a slightly faster processor....!!

Remember this is just the price of the handset without subsidy!
I love the iPhone, and i am happy to pay a little extra as new hardware functionality is added, but this is getting silly... it's getting VERY expensive!

AND you're still buying a phone that will always be locked to one carrier even when your contract expires!!!

Agreed, since I already have the 3G and as this is a non-essential purchase for me, this iPhone is simply £150 more than I am willing to pay for a phone - in either 16 or 32G format.

I don't deny 02's right to make a profit however and I'm not expecting a free ride, but I do think it interesting that reports state that 02's exclusivity ends in 2009 and I think this is why O2 are playing hardball with the price. This smells to me like a Universal Music group type muscling iTunes sort of deal all over again. Big Corp politics, I wonder?

There is no denying that dropping the price £150 (or simply allowing a rolling upgrade 18 month renewal at current contract rates) would just about guarantee all current iPhone owners would upgrade - this can't of escaped Apple's notice.

I suspect Apple are probably fuming as I'm absolutely certain they're selling the £540 retail 32G to O2 in bulk for £300 or thereabouts - the same price as Apple are selling the 32G iPod Touch with a 35% profit margin!

 

[Lebowski]

I love apple but they really need to get it together especially with this phone thing. I bought the first gen and left my great verizon service for the terrible att service, I upgraded to the 3g even though the features really didnt warrant an upgrade because I love apple and now they add things and services that they knowwwwwwwww should have been avaible at least on the 3g and apple and att have the nerve to say I not only have to pay more bu extend my cotract. Not to mention I got screwed on the whole firewire macbook deal. I keep follwing apple but boy a little consideration/respect would be nice

​

so let me get this strait. you switched carriers to get the iPhone. Ok, i can understand that. THEN, you needed to upgrade to the 3G when YOU YOURSELF claim the features "didnt really warrant an upgrade". Then, you are mad at apple for not adding features that "you" think should have been available on the SECOND iPhone you bought in a years time (but werent included, yet you still bought it anyway). And on top of it, you are upset for the whole "firewire macbook deal".... which sounds like to me (as MANY people did) that you simply ran out and got a new macbook last year just because you wanted to have the latest thing, rather than actually do some research (as to weather or not it ACTUALLY HAD THE RIGHT HARDWARE TO SUIT YOUR NEEDS). Apple was CLEAR that the last macbook had NO FW. It is YOUR OWN FAULT that YOU bought a laptop with no FW.

Does all that sound about right?

Maybe you should either 1. make due with what you have until its VERY important to upgrade for a good reason... or 2. actually do a bit of research on a product that costs hundreds or thousands of dollars before purchasing.

This is so typical of the "fanboys". Mind you, I am a die hard mac user (as a pro photographer and video producer), yet I find it silly to buy gear just to be the cool guy at starbucks. When I am in the market for new equipment, i do PLENTY of research, and if it doesnt have what I NEED, I dont blindly purchase it then bitch about it. I produce commercials, television shows and media ads using a quad G5 and a powerbook G4. Yes, thats a powerbook from 2003! Sure, I love getting new gear, but I wait till its ABSOLUTELY necessary to purchase. Running out and dropping hundreds or thousands of dollars in blind faith, or to be the cool coffee shop hipster only hurts yourself in the end.

I still use my launch day purchased iPhone 8gig. Sure, id love more storage, video and faster network, and my phone has some scratches... but it works fine. I probably will end up getting the new 3GS, but I will do so once my girlfriends contract is up, give her my current iPhone and upgrade mine.

If you are the type of person that absolutely HAS to get the latest and greatest gadget out there, then deal with the fact that you are going to have to pay a premium for constantly upgrading.

 

[bombardier.v2]

I've just had a thought about which I'm slightly concerned.

Here's my plan:

I currently have a 3G and my contract isn't up until January. I am going to buy a new 3GS on contract, but swap the SIM from my 3G to the new 3GS, that should be fine - unless they are somehow tying the ability to do video to the 3GS contracts? Anyway, then I am going to give my old 3G to my daughter. She is currently on O2 Pay And Go with a different phone. The problem as I see it:

I can swap over my SIM, no problem, I'm then left with an activated SIM with the number: xxx which I will put in my old 3G, but I want to port my daughters number over to that SIM - is that going to be doable as they are both with O2?

 

[bunnicula]

If you are the type of person that absolutely HAS to get the latest and greatest gadget out there, then deal with the fact that you are going to have to pay a premium for constantly upgrading.

Thank you. I completely agree.

I've been upgrading each time a new iPhone comes out because... I like them.

I don't care how much they cost (right now... if they became much more expensive, I might reconsider).

I'm also not in a hurry to upgrade, nor do I feel like I have to be standing in line on launch day... I also don't care what people think of my cell phone. That's just odd. I buy a cell phone for MY use, not for other people to SEE me using it.


When second gen came out, I waited a couple months because I wasn't sure if the new phone was really want *I* wanted, or whether there was any point to upgrading. Turns out that I could get my corp discount back if I upgrade to second gen (I lost it on launch day '07, as did everyone else, when I bought the first gen iPhone... THAT always bugged me. Made no damned sense, as I had paid full price for that phone. Anywayy....)... now, there's the third gen iPhone coming out...

I'll prolly upgrade because I like the idea of video recording and a better camera. I use mine pretty often already, to grab quick pics of whatever is happening around me. It'd be nice if those pics were a bit better. Some things would be even better in a short video clip. I always used the video capabilities on the phones I had pre-iPhone, so I'm thinking this would be a handy feature.

That last paragraph contained reasons why *I* feel like I might just go ahead in August, when I can upgrade for the subsidized price, and get the 3GS.

Not everyone uses the camera that often, nor would they use the video camera.... well, hell... why upgrade? The compass? The speed? C'mon, it's not gonna be THAT much faster. And what do you do on your iPhone that needs so much speed? It's a phone, not a car.



I think much of this is what you said... it's about owning the latest and (supposedly) greatest, and about flashing it around to one's friends.

(I typed this from my iBook G4... ahem)

 

[limesmoothie]

I've just had a thought about which I'm slightly concerned.

Here's my plan:

I currently have a 3G and my contract isn't up until January. I am going to buy a new 3GS on contract, but swap the SIM from my 3G to the new 3GS, that should be fine - unless they are somehow tying the ability to do video to the 3GS contracts? Anyway, then I am going to give my old 3G to my daughter. She is currently on O2 Pay And Go with a different phone. The problem as I see it:

I can swap over my SIM, no problem, I'm then left with an activated SIM with the number: xxx which I will put in my old 3G, but I want to port my daughters number over to that SIM - is that going to be doable as they are both with O2?

Try porting your daughter's number out to a PAYG SIM on another network, then back to O2, as I believe you can't number port on the same network.

 

[samab]

I don't deny 02's right to make a profit however and I'm not expecting a free ride, but I do think it interesting that reports state that 02's exclusivity ends in 2009 and I think this is why O2 are playing hardball with the price. This smells to me like a Universal Music group type muscling iTunes sort of deal all over again. Big Corp politics, I wonder?

The much simplier and much more logical explanation is that carriers worldwide had irrational exuberance about potential sales figures of the iphones a couple years ago --- so they over-subsidized the iphone (in order to win the exclusivity contract).

Now that the actual sales figures didn't match their initial projections --- of course they are going to reduce the subsidies a bit.

 

[bombardier.v2]

Try porting your daughter's number out to a PAYG SIM on another network, then back to O2, as I believe you can't number port on the same network.

Good idea, thanks!

 

[cu2010]

You can take advantage of our no commitment pricing. Additional discounts may be available on 07/05/2009

Select
iPhone Upgrade
As a valued AT&T customer, we can offer you a discounted iPhone upgrade at a higher price, along with a 2-year commitment and an $18 upgrade fee. Please proceed with the online upgrade process for pricing details. You may qualify for a full discount on a standard iPhone upgrade on 07/05/2009


Does this mean I will have to pay $699 for 32GB? I'm currently using BB.
A discounted iPhone upgrade at a higher price??? Does it make sense?
What is a standard iPhone upgrade?

 

[xerenthar]

anyone know if it's possible to add a line to my account, get the subsidized price, then just pop my original line SIM into the 3GS?

 

[nyctravis]

Did AT&T change their mind today? Walt Mossberg's article today says that

But AT&T, stung by criticism in recent days, has just decided to offer the lower, new-customer prices at launch to iPhone 3G owners eligible for upgrades at any time up to Sept. 30 of this year, even if they were originally told they'd have to pay the $200 premium. Full article

Am I reading too much into this? Perhaps maybe those of us who bought the 3G on launch day will be able to upgrade at the same price?

 

[xerenthar]

Did AT&T change their mind today? Walt Mossberg's article today says that

But AT&T, stung by criticism in recent days, has just decided to offer the lower, new-customer prices at launch to iPhone 3G owners eligible for upgrades at any time up to Sept. 30 of this year, even if they were originally told they'd have to pay the $200 premium. Full article

Am I reading too much into this? Perhaps maybe those of us who bought the 3G on launch day will be able to upgrade at the same price?

up to sept. 30.

i still get screwed as a 3g first week adopter with $100ish bills and a december date?

calling to haggle tonight!

 

[nyctravis]

up to sept. 30.

i still get screwed as a 3g first week adopter with $100ish bills and a december date?

calling to haggle tonight!

I bought mine launch day and am still told unable to upgrade until December.

 

[xerenthar]

I bought mine launch day and am still told unable to upgrade until December.

https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=7850527#post7850527

we can meet there. and we should all call AT&T and see if there's anything that can be done.

 

[charlituna]

You can take advantage of our no commitment pricing. Additional discounts may be available on 07/05/2009

Select
iPhone Upgrade
As a valued AT&T customer, we can offer you a discounted iPhone upgrade at a higher price, along with a 2-year commitment and an $18 upgrade fee. Please proceed with the online upgrade process for pricing details. You may qualify for a full discount on a standard iPhone upgrade on 07/05/2009


as of that statement, you didn't qualify for the subsidy. so you would pay $699 or whatever for the 32 GB. pre ATT wussing up, you could have waited until July 5 and gotten it for the $299 with a new contract.

Did AT&T change their mind today? Walt Mossberg's article today says that

Am I reading too much into this? Perhaps maybe those of us who bought the 3G on launch day will be able to upgrade at the same price?

up to sept. 30.

i still get screwed as a 3g first week adopter with $100ish bills and a december date?

calling to haggle tonight!

I bought mine launch day and am still told unable to upgrade until December.

that is what a lot of folks aren't reading right. The same math applies. if you were on a base rate contract, it's around 18-20 into the game. higher plan folks get months off cause they paid off the subsidy faster and ATT wants to keep them around pay in more money.

so if by that math, you were eligible up to Sept 30 they will go ahead and let you buy now. cause they are sick of the calls and so is Apple probably. I can imagine they were getting tired of "Look we aren't a cell phone company. ATT is. it is their rule, go gripe at them" in nice and apple friendly ways