Cooking your Mobo

[smittyzz]

Just looking for stories where you've cooked your mobo to ressurect it, and how long it lasted!

Bought a 3.06ghz 15 inch macbook pro mid 2009 for 355
runs great
seller said screen flickered which turned into the gpu shorting out.
cooked it 3 times with a hair drier and its been running strong for 9+ hours.

 

[Lord Xeb]

Just looking for stories where you've cooked your mobo to ressurect it, and how long it lasted!

Bought a 3.06ghz 15 inch macbook pro mid 2009 for 355
runs great
seller said screen flickered which turned into the gpu shorting out.
cooked it 3 times with a hair drier and its been running strong for 9+ hours.

A hair dryer will not get the board hot enough to properly reflow the solder. You need a heat gun or a reflow oven. Generally temps of around 500-600 degrees F is enough to get the solder to become soft and "reflow (don't move the board till it has cooled down!!!!).

When using a heat gun for reflow, you want to go around the board about 4 inches above it and move in a smooth fashion, quickly, back and forth to heat the board up and prevent any kind of heat stress, then once the board starts to get hot to the touch (uncomfortable hot), start focusing on the GPU in a swirling motion about 4 inches above the board for about 30 seconds to a minute trying not to focus too much heat on any one area.


And before you proceed, I do not take any responsibility if you break your board. Proceed at your own risk!

This MAY work, but it may not either depending on if there is an encoder chip, fuse issue, video memory issue, and well, a many number of other things. There are companies based in the US that do component based repair if this doesn't work out for you. You can probably send it out for repair.

 

[maflynn]

I never heard of this and personally think if you're going to take a heat gun to the logic board you're asking for trouble.

 

[chrisperro]

im done it to 10 motherboards with the faulty nvidia 8600gt, they all worked after.
i did it to a 2009 13" ,no luck.
oven at 375 for 9 minutes.

 

[smittyzz]

im done it to 10 motherboards with the faulty nvidia 8600gt, they all worked after.
i did it to a 2009 13" ,no luck.
oven at 375 for 9 minutes.

Thanks so much for the info! im going to be doing this tomight as my glitching is back, ive watchd some youtube videos and they all say around 190C

are you sure 375 is hot enough for the solder to melt? and how long after ?

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im done it to 10 motherboards with the faulty nvidia 8600gt, they all worked after.
i did it to a 2009 13" ,no luck.
oven at 375 for 9 minutes.

Thanks so much for the info! im going to be doing this tomight as my glitching is back, ive watchd some youtube videos and they all say around 190C

are you sure 375 is hot enough for the solder to melt? and how long after did they work?

 

[chrisperro]

375 Fahrenheit ,

 

[smittyzz]

375 Fahrenheit ,

Thanks so much for the response ill post how it does in a little while when i do it, im hoping this fixes everything

 

[Lord Xeb]

Thanks so much for the response ill post how it does in a little while when i do it, im hoping this fixes everything

I have also fixed Xbox 360s by baking them in the oven ato 400 degress for 10 minutes, then letting them cool for 2 hours.

Same thing with a few video cards (GTX 260 55nm 216, 8800 Ultra, 8800GT, GTX 560 Ti, and an GTX 460). However, I prefer using a heat gun.

Now, once we get a reflow oven at work, I am going to love that

I never heard of this and personally think if you're going to take a heat gun to the logic board you're asking for trouble.

You sir have not be involved in the repair business long enough.

 

[smittyzz]

I have also fixed Xbox 360s by baking them in the oven ato 400 degress for 10 minutes, then letting them cool for 2 hours.

Same thing with a few video cards (GTX 260 55nm 216, 8800 Ultra, 8800GT, GTX 560 Ti, and an GTX 460). However, I prefer using a heat gun.

Now, once we get a reflow oven at work, I am going to love that



You sir have not be involved in the repair business long enough.

Well i just baked it for 8:30 at 375. didnt fix the issue, so im going to go with what you said and try 10 minutes at 400..
my problem is a green line and grayish static comes on my screen until i bend my shell putting a slite bend on the mobo. any thoughts?

 

[bkribbs]

You definitly don't want to be doing it over and over man

 

[smittyzz]

Well I tried a blow drier three times, and I'm on my second baking. If it doesn't work this time I'm going to have it reballed with led solder

 

[smittyzz]

You definitly don't want to be doing it over and over man

So i finished cooking it for the second time and just got it back together, running good now with no glitches and i made sure my heat sinks were on tight and shes running 37-39 Degrees Celcius while sitting on a bed idling. with finder itunes firefox utorrent audio hijack pro a facebook app smc fan control and free memory running its idling at 40-41

 

[Lord Xeb]

So i finished cooking it for the second time and just got it back together, running good now with no glitches and i made sure my heat sinks were on tight and shes running 37-39 Degrees Celcius while sitting on a bed idling. with finder itunes firefox utorrent audio hijack pro a facebook app smc fan control and free memory running its idling at 40-41

If 375 is not enough, 485 generally will do the trick, but you risk melting plastic bits on the board.

 

[jav6454]

A hair dryer will not get the board hot enough to properly reflow the solder. You need a heat gun or a reflow oven. Generally temps of around 500-600 degrees F is enough to get the solder to become soft and "reflow (don't move the board till it has cooled down!!!!).

When using a heat gun for reflow, you want to go around the board about 4 inches above it and move in a smooth fashion, quickly, back and forth to heat the board up and prevent any kind of heat stress, then once the board starts to get hot to the touch (uncomfortable hot), start focusing on the GPU in a swirling motion about 4 inches above the board for about 30 seconds to a minute trying not to focus too much heat on any one area.


And before you proceed, I do not take any responsibility if you break your board. Proceed at your own risk!

This MAY work, but it may not either depending on if there is an encoder chip, fuse issue, video memory issue, and well, a many number of other things. There are companies based in the US that do component based repair if this doesn't work out for you. You can probably send it out for repair.

I never heard of this and personally think if you're going to take a heat gun to the logic board you're asking for trouble.

What the poster above stated is true. Although to achieve correct reflow soldering, you need the adequate temperature or reflow profile.

In this case, the board should be subjected to either a Soak or Ramp style profile which go over 217*C

Moreover, be sure to add flux in there, I have a suspicion that doing a second reflow soldering cycle will definitely cause corrosion to the solder since the original flux should be long since evaporated or consumed by the initial reflow solder process.


I might add that the initial soldering process might have caused one of two defects in the GPU's BGA contacts. Either there where left over solder balls which were violating the minimum spacing between contacts (which in turn cause a short) or there was excess solder which smeared around contact points and hence created a short. Either way, careful when trying to rework this. BGAs are the trickiest things to rework when it comes down to SMT components. In most cases a simple X-Ray machine is required to check that each BGA contact point is properly made. (not to mention the warpage BGA packages go thru when n ot properly soldered).

 

[smittyzz]

What the poster above stated is true. Although to achieve correct reflow soldering, you need the adequate temperature or reflow profile.

In this case, the board should be subjected to either a Soak or Ramp style profile which go over 217*C

Moreover, be sure to add flux in there, I have a suspicion that doing a second reflow soldering cycle will definitely cause corrosion to the solder since the original flux should be long since evaporated or consumed by the initial reflow solder process.


I might add that the initial soldering process might have caused one of two defects in the GPU's BGA contacts. Either there where left over solder balls which were violating the minimum spacing between contacts (which in turn cause a short) or there was excess solder which smeared around contact points and hence created a short. Either way, careful when trying to rework this. BGAs are the trickiest things to rework when it comes down to SMT components. In most cases a simple X-Ray machine is required to check that each BGA contact point is properly made. (not to mention the warpage BGA packages go thru when n ot properly soldered).

thanks for the info! greatly appreciated.
so far ibe baked it in the oven twice 375 for 8:30 and 400 for 10. and ive tried a hair drier for 1 for 5 each chip and then 7 then ten( this was done before the baking)

i just read that heat makes a motherboard bend and that would make sence as to why when i bend it slightly it fixes the problem, but i dont have the tools and i dont want to damage the computer, ill do some more research and see what the highest temp is without melting parts
but im kind of on the fence for sending my mobo out to get both chips reballed for 75 from a guy off ebay whos done allllooott of mobos.
can baking a mobo too much damage it?
and what are your thoughts?

----------

What the poster above stated is true. Although to achieve correct reflow soldering, you need the adequate temperature or reflow profile.

In this case, the board should be subjected to either a Soak or Ramp style profile which go over 217*C

Moreover, be sure to add flux in there, I have a suspicion that doing a second reflow soldering cycle will definitely cause corrosion to the solder since the original flux should be long since evaporated or consumed by the initial reflow solder process.


I might add that the initial soldering process might have caused one of two defects in the GPU's BGA contacts. Either there where left over solder balls which were violating the minimum spacing between contacts (which in turn cause a short) or there was excess solder which smeared around contact points and hence created a short. Either way, careful when trying to rework this. BGAs are the trickiest things to rework when it comes down to SMT components. In most cases a simple X-Ray machine is required to check that each BGA contact point is properly made. (not to mention the warpage BGA packages go thru when n ot properly soldered).

my exact issues are as follows:

9400m: works but if laptop slightly bent the creen goes in and out like being unplugged and on some white spots it has like a grey statick pixel area. but does work

9600m gt: Works but when cool or normal temp it will glitch out, green line thats not not perfectly straight and the black areas go green, and white go grayish

if heated up the dgpu stops, hvent tested with the igpu

just bought it off ebay, an just want it fixed... so what are your thoughts?

 

[jav6454]

thanks for the info! greatly appreciated.
so far ibe baked it in the oven twice 375 for 8:30 and 400 for 10. and ive tried a hair drier for 1 for 5 each chip and then 7 then ten( this was done before the baking)

i just read that heat makes a motherboard bend and that would make sence as to why when i bend it slightly it fixes the problem, but i dont have the tools and i dont want to damage the computer, ill do some more research and see what the highest temp is without melting parts
but im kind of on the fence for sending my mobo out to get both chips reballed for 75 from a guy off ebay whos done allllooott of mobos.
can baking a mobo too much damage it?
and what are your thoughts?

Look, there is a whole science behind Reflow Soldering (which what you are trying to do achieve when baking).

In a nutshell, you need flux in there or you will permanently damage the state of the solder and cause oxidation which is a huge no-no. Flux will help the reflow process. Second, components such as BGAs will suffer from warpage, which is why a cooldown zone is required in many ovens has it will lessen this. Components being damaged due to heat are not much of a concern as long as they are within the proper reflow temperatures.

Be careful not to damage underside SMT/Thru-Hole components in your oven. When hot, solder is very weak as it went from solid to liquid and is trying to cooldown. This can easily nick a component and you will be screwed.

Reballed means he will add solder balls that are bigger for proper reflow process. Big mistake as excess solder will cause a big short and very likely RUIN either your mobo or GPU (or both). Also, for proper reflow soldering you will need solder paste.

 

[smittyzz]

Look, there is a whole science behind Reflow Soldering (which what you are trying to do achieve when baking).

In a nutshell, you need flux in there or you will permanently damage the state of the solder and cause oxidation which is a huge no-no. Flux will help the reflow process. Second, components such as BGAs will suffer from warpage, which is why a cooldown zone is required in many ovens has it will lessen this. Components being damaged due to heat are not much of a concern as long as they are within the proper reflow temperatures.

Be careful not to damage underside SMT/Thru-Hole components in your oven. When hot, solder is very weak as it went from solid to liquid and is trying to cooldown. This can easily nick a component and you will be screwed.

Reballed means he will add solder balls that are bigger for proper reflow process. Big mistake as excess solder will cause a big short and very likely RUIN either your mobo or GPU (or both). Also, for proper reflow soldering you will need solder paste.

thnks for the reply again, few things
one thanks so much for your information!

secondly ive been following articles and stuff, so i think im safe, but the flux i agree as ive knows how to solder for years, and i know all about flux and how it helps the whole process

and the guy that is going to do it, he removes the chip, the solder from both the board and the chips, reballs them with led based solder and then reflows it, he also does copper shimming to keep the gpu ectra cool for free.
he has alot of feedback, and there all good.
now what are your thoughts?

also one more thing, the dgpu isnt glitching yet, but i dont believe that i has sucsessfully melted the solder at all in any of my attempts... i just want a working gpu!!

 

[jav6454]

I think you should not let him use Lead (Pb) based solder. The 9400M series of Macs was Apple's initial green pushes and they touted how their Macs where completely Lead (Pb) free. In other words, they very likely used a Lead free Reflow process and their PCB is lead-free oriented. At this point, be extremely careful of his process as he will most likely damage the inter-metallic finish on the PCB in order to remove the GPU. You need that finish for proper adherence between the copper pads on the PCB and the solder balls on the BGA package.

Also, be aware many PCBs are not keen of removing packages and re-applying them as their technological process of making can vary... HASL, OSP... etc.

 

[smittyzz]

I think you should not let him use Lead (Pb) based solder. The 9400M series of Macs was Apple's initial green pushes and they touted how their Macs where completely Lead (Pb) free. In other words, they very likely used a Lead free Reflow process and their PCB is lead-free oriented. At this point, be extremely careful of his process as he will most likely damage the inter-metallic finish on the PCB in order to remove the GPU. You need that finish for proper adherence between the copper pads on the PCB and the solder balls on the BGA package.

Also, be aware many PCBs are not keen of removing packages and re-applying them as their technological process of making can vary... HASL, OSP... etc.

well the guys does macbooks, has been doing them, his one listing has sold over 100 for just macbook pro repairs, and all his reflow listings include macbooks,
heres his link so you can check him out...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Mac-M...483?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0677c1cb

So what do you think the best way of getting my gpus fixed? i just bought this laptop and i want it to last a few years hopefully

Again thank you so much for all your help and your knowledge on this, im happy atleast someone would help me

 

[Lord Xeb]

I think you should not let him use Lead (Pb) based solder. The 9400M series of Macs was Apple's initial green pushes and they touted how their Macs where completely Lead (Pb) free. In other words, they very likely used a Lead free Reflow process and their PCB is lead-free oriented. At this point, be extremely careful of his process as he will most likely damage the inter-metallic finish on the PCB in order to remove the GPU. You need that finish for proper adherence between the copper pads on the PCB and the solder balls on the BGA package.

Also, be aware many PCBs are not keen of removing packages and re-applying them as their technological process of making can vary... HASL, OSP... etc.

Well then... Looks I am learning something new here.

 

[smittyzz]

Well then... Looks I am learning something new here.

Yea im learning quite a bit too, i just want my gpus fixed, or atleast the dgpu....
Well on a side note there hasnt been any glitching since baking my macpiepro so im gonna heat her un and cool her down to see if it comes back..

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Well then... Looks I am learning something new here.

btw i dont know i i feel safe at 475, but i did watch a guy do it at 385 on youtube. im thinking im going to leave it to the pros and not fry my whole board

 

[jav6454]

well the guys does macbooks, has been doing them, his one listing has sold over 100 for just macbook pro repairs, and all his reflow listings include macbooks,
heres his link so you can check him out...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Mac-M...483?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0677c1cb

So what do you think the best way of getting my gpus fixed? i just bought this laptop and i want it to last a few years hopefully

Again thank you so much for all your help and your knowledge on this, im happy atleast someone would help me

He does know his stuff. Although he does state he replaces the lead-free solder balls with leaded ones.

Although he mentions problem fixes. Not sure. I would personally not do it. At least without knowing what type of manufacturing process the main board PCB was made thru.

 

[smittyzz]

He does know his stuff. Although he does state he replaces the lead-free solder balls with leaded ones.

Although he mentions problem fixes. Not sure. I would personally not do it. At least without knowing what type of manufacturing process the main board PCB was made thru.

Thanks, if you look at this listing it tells what he uses,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motherboard...087?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35bb252f8f

second line of description it says led spheres

also another note, after a stress test the igpu still cuts out if bent..
Dgpu still no glitching. all i care about is the dgpu.

but what are your thoughts after reading that discription?

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Thanks, if you look at this listing it tells what he uses,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motherboard...087?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35bb252f8f

second line of description it says led spheres

also another note, after a stress test the igpu still cuts out if bent..
Dgpu still no glitching. all i care about is the dgpu.

but what are your thoughts after reading that discription?

go to the bottom, in this listing if he cant fix it he will ask if i want to get a replacement gpu, so atleast i know he has a supply and if my gpu is ****ed i can replace it

 

[jav6454]

I think he does have some soldering experience that has enabled him to do extensive repairs. However, replacing lead-free for leaded poses and issue for me.

PCB boards are very unique when it comes to the type of manufacturing process they were made. Copper pads are not just copper alone. They are covered in a thin solder/copper mixture know as the inter-metallic layer. This actually helps solder paste fuse to the copper pad.

Inter-metallic layer composition will vary extensive depending on the process of manufacture and even more so if the reflow process is either Lead free or leaded. (or if the process involves clean or no-clean flux)

So you see, switching to leaded based solder may seem like a workable idea now, but I am not keen on it, unless I definitely know it will work. Mixing lead based pads with lead free solder can cause bad solder joints and eventually your GPU will be loose after a simple physical shock.

 

[smittyzz]

I think he does have some soldering experience that has enabled him to do extensive repairs. However, replacing lead-free for leaded poses and issue for me.

PCB boards are very unique when it comes to the type of manufacturing process they were made. Copper pads are not just copper alone. They are covered in a thin solder/copper mixture know as the inter-metallic layer. This actually helps solder paste fuse to the copper pad.

Inter-metallic layer composition will vary extensive depending on the process of manufacture and even more so if the reflow process is either Lead free or leaded. (or if the process involves clean or no-clean flux)

So you see, switching to leaded based solder may seem like a workable idea now, but I am not keen on it, unless I definitely know it will work. Mixing lead based pads with lead free solder can cause bad solder joints and eventually your GPU will be loose after a simple physical shock.

i see what yur saying, im sure i could request led free solder if i wanted as im the consumer, if thats possible what would you say?

You are my mechanic at the moment lol