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Cops Bust Woman for Hitting Cyclist After She Brags on Twitter
- Thread starter MegamanX
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In the UK, I don't think there are laws specifically disallowing bicycles, but there are plenty of roads that you can only use if you are capable of maintaining a certain speed. I think it's 40 mph for motorways, for example. No bicycles, no tractors, no low powered mopeds.
USA has those also. We call them Interstates, Freeways, or Controlled Access Highways in official documents. These are off limits to slower vehicles.
Clearly understood and not in question. No bicycles on these to even cause inconvenience for the cagers,
Agreed. In the UK there is a long-running road safety campaign called 'THINK!'. The campaign about taking more care around motorcyclists was initially 'THINK! BIKE!' to which they eventually added 'THINK! BIKER!', re-personifying the motorcyclist. There is a minority here that seems to have forgotten entirely that cyclists are human beings too, with just as much a right to freedom and liberty as any car driver.
The cyclist strand of the UK campaign I mention is here: http://think.direct.gov.uk/cycling.html
I really should'nt voice my opinion on cyclists because I'd only get banned.... I've had the urge to run over a few of them myself. No common sense and no sense of self preservation either. Of course, it helps knowing that no matter matter what happens, you (the motor vehicle driver) is automatically at fault. It doesn't matter if he fell out of a plane or whatever. **** swedish law.
No, my point was that it doesn't matter what happens, the motor vehicle driver is automatically at fault. No matter what. We have a law that states all motor vehicles must not be driven at a higher speed that it is possible to stop for unexpected obstacles.
By definition, that makes the motor vehicle at fault for basically anything that happens if the other party is not inside another motor vehicle. Recently a woman was charged and convicted for hitting a woman who was jaywalking. Which for the record is not illegal here in Sweden.
Funnily enough I do know what it is, and I did read the article before posting my comment. But we don't have the concept in the UK, but then I suppose we don't have blocks either.
Essentially by my question I was meaning to suggest that if you're controlling a vehicle, you are responsible for what you hit. Where two vehicles are involved, more complex rules or analysis is clearly required to establish liability. I suppose I was also being a bit contemptuous of the concept, and I apologise for that.
I don't think it's unreasonable to prosecute someone for hitting a pedestrian who is 'jaywalking', if their driving was negligent or otherwise lacking. Drivers should choose speeds appropriate to their surroundings.
I personally say the law should be that the motorist is assumed at fault unless proven otherwise.
In many places in the US for example in an Auto pedestrian accident it is assumed the motorist is at fault if nothing shows otherwise. Now that being said they often times will find the fault is of the pedestrian but it requires proof of some type to make that happen. He said she said will mean motorist at fault.
I say it should be the same for bikers as the motorist is by far the more dangerous object on the road.
This thread has been an interesting read! It really paints the picture of two groups truly divided...
I attended grad school for two years in Los Angeles, and rode my bike to and from school a couple of days a week, due to the extraordinary cost of a campus parking permit. The ride was always extremely nerve-racking, as the only ways to and from school were major car-commuter roads, usually two to three lanes wide on each side, with stop lights at every intersection. I assure you that I followed every traffic law in the book, out of fear of being clipped at any time. Some sections of the road had bike lanes, but most did not. I also made sure to have flashing lights on the front and back of my bike.
During my time in grad school, I was involved in two accidents with cars, and both of those accidents were directly related to the car-driver not following traffic rules.
1) I slowly approached a red light intersection in the slow lane, and moved to the lane's gutter and essentially walked my bicycle (still on the saddle, but pushing the bike with my feet) to make my way to the intersection. The right lane was a "straight or turn right lane." When I got to about two or three cars back from the intersection, the light turned green, so I began pedaling my bike with the intention of going straight. As I entered the intersection, a car passed me, turned right without indicating, and my front wheel hit the car's rear quarter panel, sending me over my handlebars and onto the pavement, with oncoming traffic having to screech to a stop. The driver did not stop. Another driver stopped to see if I was ok, and called the cops, who did not respond within the hour I waited at the intersection to file a report.
2) I was riding in a bicycle lane going approximately 20 mph on a 45 mph section of road, when a TRAFFIC COP [yes, an officer of the law,] passed me, entered the bike lane (again, without signaling, I'm assuming to write a ticket for cars parked too long) and hit their breaks, causing me to make an attempt to hit my breaks and swerve, with the end result in me clipping the back of the traffic cop's vehicle, and again going over my handle bars. Luckily there was no oncoming traffic this time, as I probably wouldn't had survived. The traffic cop blamed me for the accident, claiming that I wasn't visible and should have slowed down when she entered the bike lane. I quickly pointed to the flashing front and back lights and asked how I could not be visible, to which the traffic cop had no answer. I asked the traffic cop to call her supervisor to report the accident, to which she refused. I would have called the cops myself, if my phone had not fallen out of my pocket whilst in mid-air and cracked on the street, rendering the phone useless. The traffic cop left before I had the wherewithal to memorize a plate or ID. Yep, a cop being the perpetrator of a hit and run.
I bring up these two encounters to paint the picture that cyclists face on a daily basis. In both cases, the car driver either did not see me, or chose to ignore me. In both cases, I, as the cyclist walked away with damage, not the car.
I pretty much stopped riding my bike after the second incident (except on bike paths that are completed isolated from traffic).
I agree that cyclists should follow the rules. I've stopped at a stop sign and seen a cyclist blow through in the other direction, and that makes me upset too. The point, however, is that the letter of the law instructs cyclists and drivers to share the road equally, and the feeling I get from many of the posts is that many drivers don't believe they should have to follow those laws, and that the cyclists are in their way.
Drivers, please, have a little patience. I was essentially forced to commute via bike due to being a poor grad student, and ended up in two pretty scary accidents. It's scary to watch driver after driver speed, while on their cell phone, not using their blinker to change lanes...
Cyclists, please, have a little wherewithal. As a cyclist you represent a community of cyclists, and as this thread has shown, the cyclist community is not respected by drivers. It's scary to watch cyclists blitz through an intersection...
Jaywalking also includes crossing a road without waiting for permissive indication at a signalized crossing. The woman in question ran across the road while the lights were red. If I had done the same in a car I would've probably lost my license.
Choose speeds appropriate for you surroundings? That's why we have speed limits. You cant be held accountable if someone jumpy out right in front of you. You have no chance in hell of stopping.
I dunno know where you live mate, but if you want proof that motorists aren't the most dangerous, take a trip to Stockholm, Sweden.
Ever drive a fully loaded, trailered LCV and have a dozen people run across the road even though they dont have permissive indication? Ever try stopping one of those vehicles on hard packed snow/ice when someone decides to cross the road just for ***** and giggles?
I totalled a brand new Mercedes Sprinter L last year when I was driving 60 kph on a 70kph road (for safety) and one idiot runs across the road because he realizes he needs the bus going in the opposite direction. I lost the van, the cargo and the car on the trailer. Best part, the police and insurance company named me at fault even though I had a bloody dash cam showing the kamikaze pilot running across the road. I barely had time to avoid him, not to mention avoid parking the van in the ditch, or even keeping the damn thing upright. Best part, that little **** didn't even have the decently to stick around. But of course, that law doesn't apply to pedestrians either....
There can be no enforcement until cyclist are licensed and the bike carries a license in order to ID it.
I lived in a more upscale suburb of Houston for a few years and I learned to hate most cyclists, just about as much as the cyclists here seem to hate drivers. And while I can truly understand the cyclists dissatisfaction with the quality of most drivers on the road, I still cannot find much sympathy (as in sympathy for frustration, not sympathy for death) for the cyclists who complain about not being able to enjoy their ride as safely as they would like. There are a few HUGE issues that most cyclists conveniently forget to consider when complaining about drivers:
1) This has already been said, but I'll say it again, cyclists FREQUENTLY do not obey all the laws that they are bound to when using public roads. For some reason, cyclists live and die by their legal right to ride on the street, but when it comes to stopping at red lights, signaling properly, maintaining proper distances between fellow cyclists, lane usage and various other "inconveniences", cyclists seem to forget that they are bound by just as many laws as people driving cars. Asking a cyclist to break his stride to stop at a 4 way intersection is apparently asking too much.
2) I don't think cyclists understand that a large amount of the frustration motorists have with them is not because they are causing them delays (though indeed, that is annoying). People in cars do not like being put in situations where they could very easily cause the death of another human being. I don't care how good a biker you are, or how perfect a driver you are, the simple fact is, any number of things could go wrong and instantly, someone driving home from work could spend the rest of their life knowing they killed someone. You might say being killed would be worse, but I can assure you, I would much rather be dead than have to live with myself if I were to ever be responsible for an innocent person's death.
3) Most importantly, cyclists are granted legal rights to use public streets for TRANSPORTATIONAL use. When I see someone decked out in a Lance Armstrong Halloween costume, it is quite clear why you are on the road. Its your hobby. And I get it, if people can take joy rides in cars, why can't cyclists do the same? The answer is simple. Motor vehicles, regardless of purpose, are using a system of roads that was designed specifically for their use. The traffic laws, signs, lights, everything, were designed for motor vehicle efficiency and safety. Bikes on the other hand, are using a modified system of rules, are not capable of keeping up with traffic, and should avoid using the roads whenever possible. It is extremely extremely annoying to me, and I'm sure many other drivers, that many cyclists whine and whine over their right to enjoy their favorite sport, wherever they want, regardless of its implications. Cycling is one of the only sports that puts lives at risk, and at the very least, inconveniences hundreds of other people, not involved in the "game".
I want to say (and this is important) that I wish no harm on cyclists, regardless of intent or ability to follow the rules. I also want to say that if you are riding a bike as an alternative method of travel, i applaud and respect you, so long as you manage to follow the rules. But if you are one of the many obnoxious Lance Armstrong wannabes that ride during rush hour traffic, on roads with speed limits at or above 50mph, I think you seriously need to drop your sense of entitlement and stop thinking that you are the only one who's life could be altered in an accident.
1) This has already been said, but I'll say it again, cyclists FREQUENTLY do not obey all the laws that they are bound to when using public roads. For some reason, cyclists live and die by their legal right to ride on the street, but when it comes to stopping at red lights, signaling properly, maintaining proper distances between fellow cyclists, lane usage and various other "inconveniences", cyclists seem to forget that they are bound by just as many laws as people driving cars. Asking a cyclist to break his stride to stop at a 4 way intersection is apparently asking too much.
2) I don't think cyclists understand that a large amount of the frustration motorists have with them is not because they are causing them delays (though indeed, that is annoying). People in cars do not like being put in situations where they could very easily cause the death of another human being. I don't care how good a biker you are, or how perfect a driver you are, the simple fact is, any number of things could go wrong and instantly, someone driving home from work could spend the rest of their life knowing they killed someone. You might say being killed would be worse, but I can assure you, I would much rather be dead than have to live with myself if I were to ever be responsible for an innocent person's death.
3) Most importantly, cyclists are granted legal rights to use public streets for TRANSPORTATIONAL use. When I see someone decked out in a Lance Armstrong Halloween costume, it is quite clear why you are on the road. Its your hobby. And I get it, if people can take joy rides in cars, why can't cyclists do the same? The answer is simple. Motor vehicles, regardless of purpose, are using a system of roads that was designed specifically for their use. The traffic laws, signs, lights, everything, were designed for motor vehicle efficiency and safety. Bikes on the other hand, are using a modified system of rules, are not capable of keeping up with traffic, and should avoid using the roads whenever possible. It is extremely extremely annoying to me, and I'm sure many other drivers, that many cyclists whine and whine over their right to enjoy their favorite sport, wherever they want, regardless of its implications. Cycling is one of the only sports that puts lives at risk, and at the very least, inconveniences hundreds of other people, not involved in the "game".
I want to say (and this is important) that I wish no harm on cyclists, regardless of intent or ability to follow the rules. I also want to say that if you are riding a bike as an alternative method of travel, i applaud and respect you, so long as you manage to follow the rules. But if you are one of the many obnoxious Lance Armstrong wannabes that ride during rush hour traffic, on roads with speed limits at or above 50mph, I think you seriously need to drop your sense of entitlement and stop thinking that you are the only one who's life could be altered in an accident.
It's amazing how many bicyclists in my area have no idea that they're supposed to stop at stop signs. It makes driving very frustrating because I don't want to murder someone.
by the way, I also wanted to say that I firmly believe at least 75 percent of the licensed public are horribly inept drivers. selfish, careless and reckless. this I see on a daily basis. so I have to say, people sometimes choose to walk into a minefield, even after reading the warning signs.
Oh my god. I want to buy you a beer. Thank you for stating so eloquently my exact feelings.
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I think this is mainly in large cities. I live in a small city (200,000 residents) and people are pretty good, friendly drivers here.
adamneer said:
Hate?
Wikipedia said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotry
In my experience the people that rant about cyclists are a small but very vocal minority. Most drivers are great and you never ever notice them. The drivers that take that dislike to the extent of harassing cyclists is even smaller- much smaller. I'd suggest that these people have problems that have nothing to with cyclists. Cyclists are just a safe target, when traditional outlets of bigotry, like race, religion, etc etc are now illegal.
It is a low rent attitude held by people without the intelligence or mental health to know any better. I pity them for their sad hateful lives.
Clearly there are some issues of perspective here. I remain to be convinced by the notions of the 'roads are for cars' brigade.
people that go on about how strong a word "hate" is, always make me feel like they want to continue arguing but have no other points to make. To infer bigotry based on someone's use of the word "hate" on an internet forum is quite a stretch. To say someone who "hates" cyclists is just getting out their pent up racial aggression is truly an unfounded argument. Even further, to put cyclists in the same class of social oppression as those who've suffered from government initiated internment camps, genocide and slavery is an appalling argument, and one that I'm afraid you'd have difficulty finding sympathy over. You quote one line of text from my paragraphs long post and use a wikipedia entry to define me as a person devoid of moral and social well being. I quote your entire post because every line in it demonstrates the pretentiously irrational mindset of the type of cyclist I "hate" so much.
These are the main types of roads we have around rural Texas; two-lanes, no shoulder, speed limit between 55-75 MPH.
Two lanes? Doesn't really sound like "the road is barely wide enough for two vehicles to pass each other".
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