Cornice Introduces 2.0GB Mini Hard Drive

[crees!]

Re: hmmm

Originally posted by ramallite
Just my thoughts based on this forum:

1- expect $129 at least - don't forget that not only is the drive around $70, but a lithium ion battery would add at least $30 wouldn't it? A cell phone battery is ~ $50 retail....

As stated before and I read this as well orginal iPods were sold at the same price as the harddrive. There was no markup for the other pieces.

2- 2GB = ~1.85 useable = >400 songs

That's roughly 40 records. Enough to keep your ears busy on the go.

3- Are people assuming that a "mini" ipod is actually going to be smaller in size than the current ones? Despite some rumors, I really don't think so. I think the superb scroll wheel, screen size, and MAYBE a removable battery (given the smaller drive size) will keep the form factor and size pretty close to the current one, which is an excellent design anyway IMHO.

2GB's compared to 40GB's sounds "mini" to me. Have you seen the actual iPod battery? I have and I don't see how it can be made for easy replacement by your average user.

4- Availability in 1-3 weeks, to ramp up production + new ads in time for superbowl and pepsi promotion.

I can't wait for the superbowl/pepsi promotion.

5- still can't imagine this thing in colors!

Colors could be okay but the earphones would have to match too. Personally I dig the white as it automatically screams iPod.

 

[thatguy_youknow]

Re: hmmm

Originally posted by ramallite
2- 2GB = ~1.85 useable......

Where does "usable" come from. Nearly the entire 2,000,000,000 bytes will be usable. The reason that a computer would only see more around 1.86 Gb is because it has to think of everything in divisons twos (bianary).

In the math world prefixes change every 1,000 or 10 to the third. So 2 Billion bytes equals 2 Gigabytes. In the computer world prefixes change every 1,024.

Sooooo......
2 Billion bytes in Math = 2 Million Kilobytes = 2,000 Megabytes = 2 Gigabytes.
2 Billion bytes to a computer = 1.953125 Million Kilobytes = 1,907.3486 Megabytes = 1.862 Gigabytes

15% of the drive space doesn't just magically disappear when you initialize a drive/disk nor does it need to be taken to make up the file system.

It has been this way forever and ever. The computer company's advertise the amount of bytes to make the drive seem larger then it really is. Why adverstise that something has a capacity of 1.862 Gigabytes when you can use a loophole and a disclaimer to advertise 2 Gigabytes.

It also applys to ram. Notice ram chips come in divisions of two. I recall my old machines would have 2 meg chips.... then 4 meg chips.... then 16 meg chips.... then 32 meg chips.... then 64 meg chips.... then 128...256...512....1024...2048...4096...blah blah blah.

 

[pbreit]

I expect they will use Hitachi's 1 inch, 2 and 4 gig drives which have been on the market awhile, are proven and probably cheaper than Cornice's.

I also expect pricing in the $149 and $199 range. $100 is way too aggressive.

Alos, Jobs' comment that iTMS is a money loser is just a ploy to make the standalone services look like dead ends. iTMS could generate over $500 million in sales next year with most of Apple's $100 million take being profit.

 

[ramallite]

Re: Re: hmmm

Originally posted by thatguy_youknow
Where does "usable" come from. Nearly the entire 2,000,000,000 bytes will be usable. The reason that a computer would only see more around 1.86 Gb is because it has to think of everything in divisons twos (bianary).

In the math world prefixes change every 1,000 or 10 to the third. So 2 Billion bytes equals 2 Gigabytes. In the computer world prefixes change every 1,024.

Sooooo......
2 Billion bytes in Math = 2 Million Kilobytes = 2,000 Megabytes = 2 Gigabytes.
2 Billion bytes to a computer = 1.953125 Million Kilobytes = 1,907.3486 Megabytes = 1.862 Gigabytes

15% of the drive space doesn't just magically disappear when you initialize a drive/disk nor does it need to be taken to make up the file system.

It has been this way forever and ever. The computer company's advertise the amount of bytes to make the drive seem larger then it really is. Why adverstise that something has a capacity of 1.862 Gigabytes when you can use a loophole and a disclaimer to advertise 2 Gigabytes.

It also applys to ram. Notice ram chips come in divisions of two. I recall my old machines would have 2 meg chips.... then 4 meg chips.... then 16 meg chips.... then 32 meg chips.... then 64 meg chips.... then 128...256...512....1024...2048...4096...blah blah blah.

... hence a very eloquent explanation of why a 2GB drive will actually be 1.86GB "seeable" by the iPod, so songs can "use" 1.86GB not 2GB hence my choice of the word "useable". Since we're being nit-picky here I assume by (bianary) you meant "binary" ?

 

[bobindashadows]

Re: Re: hmmm

Originally posted by thatguy_youknow
Where does "usable" come from. Nearly the entire 2,000,000,000 bytes will be usable. The reason that a computer would only see more around 1.86 Gb is because it has to think of everything in divisons twos (bianary).

In the math world prefixes change every 1,000 or 10 to the third. So 2 Billion bytes equals 2 Gigabytes. In the computer world prefixes change every 1,024.

Sooooo......
2 Billion bytes in Math = 2 Million Kilobytes = 2,000 Megabytes = 2 Gigabytes.
2 Billion bytes to a computer = 1.953125 Million Kilobytes = 1,907.3486 Megabytes = 1.862 Gigabytes

15% of the drive space doesn't just magically disappear when you initialize a drive/disk nor does it need to be taken to make up the file system.

It has been this way forever and ever. The computer company's advertise the amount of bytes to make the drive seem larger then it really is. Why adverstise that something has a capacity of 1.862 Gigabytes when you can use a loophole and a disclaimer to advertise 2 Gigabytes.

It also applys to ram. Notice ram chips come in divisions of two. I recall my old machines would have 2 meg chips.... then 4 meg chips.... then 16 meg chips.... then 32 meg chips.... then 64 meg chips.... then 128...256...512....1024...2048...4096...blah blah blah.

Easy way to sum this up:
2 Gigabytes (GB) = 1.86 Gibibytes (GiB).

Unfortunately, the industry uses GB for everything.

 

[splashman]

Originally posted by TheT
So there they are, the mini iPods... too bad, one suprise less tomorrow. I bet Apple's not happy they made it official today rather than tomorrow

Assuming the Cornice drive is actually going to be used in the miniPod, do you really think Cornice would dare take a deep breath without written authorization from SJ?

 

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by pbreit
I expect they will use Hitachi's 1 inch, 2 and 4 gig drives which have been on the market awhile, are proven and probably cheaper than Cornice's.

Ummm .. no.

Hitachi drives are in the $300-400 range for 4GB, $150-200 range for 2GB, wholesale.

Cornice drives are significantly simpler than Hitachi (and, presumably, Toshiba) mini drives. That's why they're less expensive.

 

[splashman]

Where is NeatGecko?

Everybody remember this from NeatGecko?

And now for the size: NO 2BG (weak) Apple will show off a nice 4.5 GB in multiple colors. 2 models in muli color is a nightmare. They will have the one size only.

Here's my favorite part:

If I am wrong I will eat my right hand.

I imagine he'll be typing a lot slower after the keynote.

 

[jettredmont]

Re: Re: hmmm

Originally posted by crees!
As stated before and I read this as well orginal iPods were sold at the same price as the harddrive. There was no markup for the other pieces.

The original Toshiba 1.8" drives sold for the same price as the iPod. However, Apple didn't buy them for that much (obviously). A good guess is that Apple got $50-75 off the price fo the Toshiba drives and sold their original iPod models at a small profit (someone with access to the Q1 2002 financials might be able to come up with a better guess of profit per unit sold on the 5GB 1G iPods).

Since then, Apple has cut manufacturing costs (removed the mechanical scroll wheel, for one, which should have cut costs), and Toshiba has increased the capacity of their drives. These cost reductions weren't passed on to consumers because, basically, there was no need to; Apple took the market and has shown no signs of losing it.

Now, assuming a $50 "other stuff" production cost, I'd guess a Cornice-based iPod might run around $149. This would be a $65 drive plus $50 battery and casing and electronics, plus $35 profit per unit.

The miniPod pricing will be interesting, and somewhat telling, I should think.

 

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by srobert
Reading the article I don't see the word: "DRIVE" anywhere. Only: "STORAGE Device/Element" Anyone has an idea if this will be made of platters and heads?

The Cornice storage element is based on hard drive technology, but significantly simplified (3 screws instead of 25, I think their press says). Thus, yes, there are platters and heads.

 

[Ling]

I think it'd be great if Apple put the mini drive in the existing iPod and then used the extra space for a bigger battery. I can't picture the iPod getting physically smaller and keeping its interface.

The Cornice drive is 1.7x1.4x0.2 in. So, let's say that the iPod would need to be 2x2x.5 in. On my 2G iPod, the scroll wheel and buttons themselves at 2x2. The 3G layout is bigger. And...well...I just don't see such a small form for the mini iPod. I think mini refers to capacity.

I guess we'll all find out tomorrow!

 

[lewellyn]

Re: hmmm

Originally posted by ramallite
1- expect $129 at least - don't forget that not only is the drive around $70, but a lithium ion battery would add at least $30 wouldn't it? A cell phone battery is ~ $50 retail....

Yes, cell phone batteries are outrageously expensive in comparison to their wholesale costs. I know that the wholesale costs for my phone's battery is in the $10 range. Go to a store and buy one and you'll be paying $60...

Keep in mind that retail prices include mark-up on every level, since everyone's in business to make money. From the manufacturer overseas, to the importer, to their distributors, to the wholesalers, to the retail chains. Most products have a lot of middlemen before they hit a retail shelf or find their way into another product.

Just an aside, the $70/pc for 100,000 units? If they end up being sold to end-users, I highly expect that to be more in the $200-250 realm or higher. "Ask what the market will bear..."

--Lewellyn

P.S. If there actually is a "MiniPod" announced tomorrow, I'll be glad to buy it if it's reasonably priced. I'm not against companies taking their profits, as long as I don't feel ripped off.

 

[geerlingguy]

Originally posted by Flowbee
...iRAID

But then pacifists would have a field day with Apple...

 

[dongmin]

Re: Re: Re: hmmm

Originally posted by jettredmont
The original Toshiba 1.8" drives sold for the same price as the iPod. However, Apple didn't buy them for that much (obviously). A good guess is that Apple got $50-75 off the price fo the Toshiba drives and sold their original iPod models at a small profit (someone with access to the Q1 2002 financials might be able to come up with a better guess of profit per unit sold on the 5GB 1G iPods).

Since then, Apple has cut manufacturing costs (removed the mechanical scroll wheel, for one, which should have cut costs), and Toshiba has increased the capacity of their drives. These cost reductions weren't passed on to consumers because, basically, there was no need to; Apple took the market and has shown no signs of losing it.

Not to belabor the point, but the $399 price for the Toshiba drives were RETAIL, not wholesale. We have no idea how much Toshiba charged Apple for the original batch of drives. I assume it was fairly high in the beginning as Apple only moved a few hundred thousand units the first year. And we obviously have no idea how much the final mark-up was on the original iPods.

And to say that Apple hasn't passed on the reduced cost of manufacturing to consumers is also not accurate. $399 originally got you a 5GB drive. Now, it gets you a 20GB drive, and $299 gets you a 10GB drive. So, Apple has, in fact, cut prices substantially over the life of the iPod, at least in MB per dollar (12.5 in the original 5GB iPods to 50.1MB per dollar in the current 20GB model).

Now, Cornice is ONLY selling to manufacturers in huge quantities. The $70 price, then, is cost to manufacturers.

 

[arn]

Originally posted by pbreit
I expect they will use Hitachi's 1 inch, 2 and 4 gig drives which have been on the market awhile, are proven and probably cheaper than Cornice's.

Hitachi's are NOT cheaper.

$70 for 2GB hasn't been done before.

arn

 

[Photorun]

$70 + whatever R&D plus profit mark up... seems unlikely it's be a $99 drive but more along the lines of $149 for the 2GB iPod... eh?

And please, NO STRIPES!

 

[iSegway]

99.99

Just as a guess i would say the starting price for the 2 GB can't be much more than 99 dollars. Why would you possibly want to pay much more than that for a 2 or 4 GB model when you can go up to the 10 for not much more money.

I think the 2 GB models will start at 99 dollars.

This makes a pretty simple Ad. campaign --

99 dollars for the player.

99 cents for each song.

 

[Pirate_Will]

bit late i know

Does anyone else think its a bit odd that video is soecified so well in the cornice marketing brochure?

Capacity
Transfer Rate

4.5Mbytes/sec typical average

-6 full-length movies or 9 hours video playback on 3.5-inch screen
(256x112)
-9 full-length movies or 13.5 hours of video playback on 1.5-inch
screen (160x64)
-3.5 hours of video recording with VHS-quality for TV monitor
playback
-2,500 pictures from a 3 mega-pixel camera
-28,000 pictures to display on a 3.5-inch screen
Greater than:

-96X the requirement for high-quality video playback on a
3.5-inch screen at 375Kbits/sec
-24X the requirement for VHS-quality video recording at
1.5Mbits/sec
Tremendous Power for Audio/Video Consumer Electronics (CE)

I mean they even specify screen sizes. Maybe there will be more than one new ipod model?

 

[DGFan]

Re: Re: hmmm

Originally posted by thatguy_youknow
It has been this way forever and ever. The computer company's advertise the amount of bytes to make the drive seem larger then it really is. Why adverstise that something has a capacity of 1.862 Gigabytes when you can use a loophole and a disclaimer to advertise 2 Gigabytes.

I thought 2 Gigabytes was correct....as was 1.86 Gibibytes.

It's not Apple's fault regular consumers don't know this (and computers display it improperly.....ok, I guess this last bit IS their fault...)

 

[DGFan]

Re: 99.99

Originally posted by iSegway
Just as a guess i would say the starting price for the 2 GB can't be much more than 99 dollars. Why would you possibly want to pay much more than that for a 2 or 4 GB model when you can go up to the 10 for not much more money.

I think the 2 GB models will start at 99 dollars.

If they come out with a 2GB model that is more portable than the current iPod then $149 would be a reasonable price point.

If you follow the rest of their price line it makes sense too. Using your logic no one would by anything except 40GB iPods....but they do buy the smaller ones.

 

[elgruga]

ipods etc

Toshiba is my guess, too.

If this Cornice co. can do this 2 gig then Toshiba has it also.

Take a case, say: $10.
Batteries: AA's FOR CERTAIN! n/c
2 gig drive: $60
screen: $10
Chipset: $15
Connectors, packaging, earphones, cables, etc: $10

Total: $105 approx.

Apple price: $125 - gross profit of $20

Retail price: $150-175

You've got your mini iPod at the price you like. (Batteries not included)

 

[jhgao6612]

The Cornice drive is called a storage element because it's so simple, and also because they dont' want it confused with a hard drive.

The SE actually has a platter made of glass coated with a magnetic material, and it has a nonstandard IDE interface, so technically it's not a hard drive; it's all marketing "speek".

As for the video specifications, I'm guessing that since Samsung made the ITCAM with the SE in it, they're hoping that more manufacturers will base camcorders on it.

As for that $100 mark, I'm crossing my fingers.

 

[Peyote]

please let there be plaid mini iPods tomorrow!

 

[Jagga]

hmmmm!

Eureka!

pkradd has got it. First off I agree that this basic drive element isn't going into the iPod minis.

Not just the WMA qoute from their site but also because of the mentioning of compatible cpus of note is Toshiba, Intel, and Motorola ALL of which are in the PDA business BIG TYME with the first two on PocketPC's and the later with Palm (well Intel too on the T3 and TC).

THis has been hyped for 2 months over at brighthand.

Toshiba it is 2 gigs for the size of a pezo! that way nobody starves or getz a stick up the coolo, oops jk.

Anyway at just 65MB/sec may not be that good for serious music listening, cueing, instant response from one track to another at different revolution speeds at different sectors across the platter.

 

[iSegway]

[q]If they come out with a 2GB model that is more portable than the current iPod then $149 would be a reasonable price point.

If you follow the rest of their price line it makes sense too. Using your logic no one would by anything except 40GB iPods....but they do buy the smaller ones.[/q]

I believe that if this "mini" Ipod is for real it is intended to be the "Volkswagon beetle"of Mp3 players. If you price it too close to the 10 gigabyte model it defeats the purpose.

Of course, this is just how I see it though.