Corning Again Criticizes Sapphire as Potential Alternative to Gorilla Glass

[Abazigal]

Part of the issue with scratches is people treating their phone like a football. People put their phone in their pockets when they got keys jiggling around. Even with purses people don't put their phone in the pouch for the phone so the phone is just bouncing around in their bags.

the amount of money spent on smartphones people should be treating it like a baby.

you could have diamond screens and people would still manage to scratch and shatter that.

For me, for the amount people spend on smartphones, I shouldn't need to treat them like a baby. I don't use a case or screen protector on my iPhone, and while I don't keep it in the same pocket as my coins and keys, I would like to not to baby it so much.

Go with sapphire glass if that's what it takes to create a more durable smartphone.

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Good point. Still this new factory and its new Sapphire process seems a risk to combine it with the iPhone. I've got the iPhone 5 (bought soon after the initial launch), so I'm probably buying the 6. I'm hoping it doesn't have any major draw backs.

Well, if past events are any indicator, the first iteration of any new iPhone model always has some hardware related issue (to be subsequently refined in the 's' model). I won't be surprised if supplies of the iPhone 6 are constrained due to problems with the laminating process or something (just like the 2012 iMac).

 

[Traverse]

Or maybe Corning knows more about glass and sapphire than Apple does?

Wisest statement here! I'm nit saying that Apple is right or that Corning is write, but Apple does have a history moving into territory where they have little experience and regret it.

 

[tbrinkma]

Shattering isn't the problem-- maybe Corning can let us know when they make a version of Gorilla Glass that scores a 9 on the Mohs scale.

Um... Shattering isn't the problem with the glass on modern phones *because* they are using Gorilla Glass (or similar products from Corning's competitors).

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Is this an English sentence?



And yet it breaks more than Gorilla Glass?

Hmm... Credibility prob, bro.

No credibility prob, 'bro'. Hardness is a measure of *scratch resistance*, not tensile strength, or compression strength. In fact, in most materials hardness tends to correlate (rather strongly) with brittleness.

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Breakable ?
---------
Sapphire : ✓
Corning GG : ✓

Scratch Proof ?
----------------
Sapphire : ✓
Corning GG : X

Sapphire wins. End of story.
Also with re-usable crucible sapphire cost will come down significantly.
Go

Breakable ?
---------
Sapphire : ✓
Structural Steel : ✓

Scratch Proof ?
----------------
Sapphire : ✓
Structural Steel : X

Sapphire wins. End of story.

I guess we should start building skyscrapers with Sapphire girders.

(Oh, and sapphire isn't "Scratch Proof" (nothing is). It is simply more scratch resistant than Gorilla Glass, which is, in turn, more break/shatter resistant than sapphire.

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Watch faces are regularly made of sapphire and almost always curved. So yes it can be cut curved, dramatically so and also with optical properties (like magnification) if desired.

Actually, sapphire isn't 'cut curved', it is cut flat, and *ground* curved. Strangely enough, you can do the exact same thing with glass.

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Exactly. Glass is harder than steel, yet steel will not break if impacted. It would be bent all out of shape, but it won't shatter. Tungsten carbide (drill bits) is much, much harder than steel, but steel has greater tenacity. Take a drill bit and try to hammer a bend in it. It's impossible since it will break instead of bend.



Um...not quite.Tungsten carbide (9 mohs scale) is harder than glass (8 mohs scale) yet it is more shatter resistant than glass. It takes a lot of force to shatter tungsten carbide, much more than glass.

Because it is possible to have a material with is *both* harder, and stronger than another material. Compare standard window glass to Gorilla Glass for another example of this.

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The final step in gorilla glass is a pressure coating, that when scratched loses it's integrity making breakage more likely to occur, so scratches cause gorilla glass to shatter. Won't happen like that with sapphire.

You're right. Sapphire doesn't get that final step. But it's less shatter resistant than Gorilla Glass is, so it will still be *more* likely to shatter, even without the scratches that the Gorilla Glass may (or may not) get prior to being dropped.

(The biggest changes to Gorilla Glass have been a) increased scratch resistance, and b) decreased weakening from scratches when they do occur.

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Here ya go:

http://www.edmundoptics.com/optics/...-windows/gorilla-glass-windows/3379?#products

http://www.rayotek.com/techincal_info_glass_sapphire.htm


Basically, we're talking about a ~5% difference in transmittance between gorilla glass and sapphire. You'd be hard pressed to even see that difference, in fact you'd notice a bigger difference just by putting on your reading glasses (does the world get noticeably darker?)

Understandably, Corning is a bit worried about their future, but the claim that sapphire will require more battery power due the glass being less transparent is a bit bonkers.

Not 'bonkers' at all. A 5% decrease in light transmission means you need a brighter back light for the same screen brightness. All else being equal, it takes more energy to make the back light brighter. (Any increase in efficiency which might negate this can be used *regardless* of the type of 'glass' used.) A more power-hungry back light means reduced battery life, and screens are still a sizable portion of a smartphone's power budget.

 

[tbrinkma]

Sour grapes from Corning.

Sour grapes would be "We didn't want make glass for smartphones anyway."

The statement from Corning was, 'Yes, sapphire is more scratch resistant than Gorilla Glass, but Gorilla Glass is less prone to breakage.'

Do you see the difference?

 

[CausticPuppy]

Um... Shattering isn't the problem with the glass on modern phones *because* they are using Gorilla Glass (or similar products from Corning's competitors).

And screens are more likely to shatter after they are scratched. Even a very minor scratch gives glass a point to shatter if dropped. Notice how Corning's infamous test video shows resistance to a constant stress, NOT to dropping.

This is why you score glass tiles before cutting them - to ensure that they break nicely along the scratch line, rather than randomly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBBZTSRHVEg


Scratches won't cause screens to shatter, but all else being equal, a scratched (gorilla glass) screen is slightly more likely to shatter than a non-scratched screen. When you're shipping millions of units, and replacing damaged screens, that small difference has a big impact on your costs.


Corning is also conveniently forgetting about Apple's patent application for sapphire laminates:

http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...+pd/9/12/2013&RS=(CCL/428/157+AND+PD/20130912)


What does that mean? It means most of the screen thickness is regular glass, with very thin sheets of sapphire to provide scratch resistance. With very thin pieces of sapphire, the argument that it's heavier and less transparent goes away.

 

[Trik]

only the iphone 5 and iphone 5S and 5C used gorilla glass.

Gorilla Glass started to be manufactured in 2006 by Corning after Steve Jobs said he needed it. Every iPhone but the iPhone 4 / 4S used Gorilla Glass.

Source: http://techland.time.com/2013/01/11...a-glass-you-with-the-cracked-phone-read-this/

 

[sanook997]

That's overall. Don't they still make over 50% gross on iPhones?

Sorry, I never addressed this and should have, better late than never.....right

MMM, yeah ~50% GM is correct, but like many consumer products, the really high costs are in SG&A. Many people think GM is profit when its not, not even close, if it was Procter & Gamble, coke and Gillette among others would be the most profitable companies in the world.

The number that really defines "Profit" is the money that you can put in the bank after you have paid all of your expenses, taxes and interest....thats your "Net Income".