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most historians believe Hitler’s fascist Germany would have eventually done away with traditional Christianity in favor of a more secular take
Not secular. In the decades leading up to the formation of the Nazi Party, its ideologues began creating a fascist occult state religion centered around the idea that Germans "of pure blood" once had mystical powers and that their "blood" had become corrupted, and they lost their mystical powers, by having children with "mongrel races". This insanity was amplified when the Nazi Party was formed, and then amplified again when the Nazi Party took over Germany. It doesn't get a lot of coverage in some circles, but among other things, Himmler, head of the SS, actively promoted pagan and mystical elements, seeing the SS as an elite knightly order based on Teutonic and Aryan mythology. He chose Wewelsburg Castle as the spiritual headquarters of the SS, packing it with esoteric symbols, sun wheels, and neo-pagan mystical ceremonies, and rebuilt one of its larger circular rooms in one of its towers as an occult ritual chamber, the “Obergruppenführersaal” (Hall of the SS Generals) as a sacred space for high-ranking SS officers. He wanted to turn Wewelsburg into a Nazi Vatican.

Secularism was one of the Nazi Party's many enemies.
 
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Lots of people with 'nothing to hide' have been persecuted, arrested, deported or killed in the past all over the world, including the USA. Not to mention the bullseye you put on yourself as a country for State agent hackers. But hey, you do you 😉.

I have nothing to hide as well but I still close my blinds and lock my doors etc.

This article has made me re think my cloud use.
 
Not secular. In the decades leading up to the formation of the Nazi Party, its ideologues began creating a fascist occult state religion centered around the idea that Germans "of pure blood" once had mystical powers, and this effort was amplified when the NaziPary was formed, and then amplified again when the Nazi Party took over Germany. It doesn't get a lot of coverage in some circles, but among other things, Himmler, head of the SS, actively promoted pagan and mystical elements, seeing the SS as an elite knightly order based on Teutonic and Aryan mythology. He established Wewelsburg Castle as the spiritual headquarters of the SS, packing it with esoteric symbols, sun wheels, and neo-pagan mystical ceremonies.

Secularism was one of the Nazi Party's many enemies.
I meant a more secular version of Christianity, one more centered on Nazi party ideology...I've heard about the pagan and occult stuff, too, but you seem to know more about that aspect....
 
I meant a more secular version of Christianity, one more centered on Nazi party ideology...I've heard about the pagan and occult stuff, too, but you seem to know more about that aspect....
One of the openly stated goals of the Nazi Party as the war progressed was to eliminate and replace Christianity altogether, since they felt it held people back from being "the wolf" that Nazism wanted to bring out in people.
 
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If it's end to end encrypted, only the user holds the key. So again, I don't ubderstand.
That’s not what E2E encryption means, and we’re talking data at rest here mostly on top on that, so a single set of decryption key.

Think of it as Apple backing up the private key itself to a server accessible to the chinese govt
 
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Not secular. In the decades leading up to the formation of the Nazi Party, its ideologues began creating a fascist occult state religion centered around the idea that Germans "of pure blood" once had mystical powers, and this effort was amplified when the NaziPary was formed, and then amplified again when the Nazi Party took over Germany. It doesn't get a lot of coverage in some circles, but among other things, Himmler, head of the SS, actively promoted pagan and mystical elements, seeing the SS as an elite knightly order based on Teutonic and Aryan mythology. He established Wewelsburg Castle as the spiritual headquarters of the SS, packing it with esoteric symbols, sun wheels, and neo-pagan mystical ceremonies.
This is accurate but also shows why the Nazis ultimately were the puppets who did not understood the meaning of:

"The risk comes from not knowing what you are doing." - Warren Buffet

By smearing in blood of crimes against humanity ancient symbols like swastika, the Nazis made sure to de-legitimize the actual Pagan wisdom like rejecting the concept of lending money with interest(aka slavery). So Nazis were the puppets who served transnational interests and therefore received oil from the factories owned by Rothschild in order to wage a war.
 


Given today's bombshell report revealing the UK government's unprecedented demand for backdoor access to encrypted iCloud data, it's clear that Apple now faces a massive challenge. How it responds could have major implications for not only the company's privacy stance, but also its global operations as well as its reputation.

iCloud-Versus-UK-Key-Feature.jpg

According to The Washington Post, the British government has secretly demanded that Apple give it blanket access to all encrypted user content uploaded to iCloud. The spying order reportedly came by way of a "technical capability notice," a document sent to Apple ordering it to provide access under the sweeping UK Investigatory Powers Act (IPA) of 2016.

According to sources that spoke to the publication, Apple is likely to stop offering encrypted storage in the UK as a result of the demand. Specifically, Apple could withdraw Advanced Data Protection, an opt-in feature that provides end-to-end encryption (E2EE) for iCloud backups, such as Photos, Notes, Voice Memos, Messages backups, and device backups.

In this scenario, UK users would still have access to basic iCloud services, but their data would lack the additional layer of security that prevents even Apple from accessing it. In other words, UK users' iCloud data would revert to standard encryption, allowing Apple to potentially access the contents of said data if it is compelled to do so by UK authorities when a warrant is issued. Although no specific instance has been publicly confirmed, the IPA grants UK security agencies the legal framework to request data from companies when it is accessible.

Apple could always pursue legal challenges. However, according to the IPA, while the company can appeal the "technical capability notice," it must comply with the order during the appeals process. Apple would be forced to temporarily implement the backdoor while arguing against its legality. Not only that, the IPA makes it a criminal offense to reveal that the government even made the demand.

Needless to say, such a gag order would prevent Apple from being up front with its customers about the security changes. When a backdoor is introduced — even if its purpose is to grant law enforcement access — it creates an alternative route into a secure channel. This not only increases the risk that bad actors might discover and exploit the vulnerability, but it also breaks the promise of complete confidentiality. Apple would essentially be lying to its customers about the watertightness of its E2EE security.

The Nuclear Option

A more dramatic response from Apple would involve completely removing iCloud services from the UK. While this would protect Apple's encryption standards, it would severely disrupt millions of UK users who rely on iCloud for photo storage, device backups, and document syncing. Users would need to find alternative cloud storage solutions and potentially lose access to years of accumulated data.

Theoretically, Apple could attempt a technical workaround by restructuring iCloud to isolate UK user data. However, the IPA allows British authorities to compel tech companies to assist with data access regardless of where that company is based, so this solution might not satisfy the government's demand for worldwide access. It would also require costly engineering resources to implement, not to mention set a concerning precedent for other countries seeking similar arrangements.

"I don't see how this is to be resolved, as Apple has made such a big point of privacy for users," said Alan Woodward, a professor of cybersecurity at Surrey University, speaking to BBC News. "If they accede to this technical notice their reputation will be in tatters. They're bound to challenge it."

Global Implications

The UK's demand could also put the government's data-sharing agreement with the European Union at risk. The two regions currently have an agreement allowing the free flow of personal data between the EU and UK, but the arrangement faces review this year. The creation of an encryption backdoor could be viewed as violating the EU's strict data protection standards.

The spy order has already raised concerns in Washington, placing Apple in a potential diplomatic crossfire. According to The Post, the Biden administration first began tracking this issue since the UK first indicated it might demand backdoor access.

The timing is particularly awkward, given that US security agencies have recently been advocating for increased use of encryption to combat Chinese cyber threats. In December, the FBI, the National Security Agency, and the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency jointly recommended that companies "ensure that traffic is end-to-end encrypted to the maximum extent possible" to protect against state-sponsored hacking. Creating a backdoor for UK authorities would directly contradict this guidance and could weaken US cyber defenses, potentially forcing Apple to choose between complying with UK law or protecting US national security interests.

It's worth noting that Apple has repeatedly and forcefully opposed creating backdoors in its products. In its March 2023 submission to UK Parliament, the company stated plainly: "We would never create a backdoor in our products." This echoes CEO Tim Cook's firm stance during the 2016 San Bernardino case, where he declared, "Apple has never built a backdoor into any of our products and never will."

The company doubled down on this position in its 2024 submission to the UK Parliament regarding changes to the IPA, warning that the provisions "could be used to force a company like Apple, that would never build a back door into its products, to publicly withdraw critical security features from the UK market."

Apple's core principle that "privacy is a fundamental human right" is a position it has consistently maintained through the years in the face of government demands for weakened encryption. Confronted by the UK government's latest encryption demands, the company must now prove whether its commitment to user privacy is truly unbreakable, or just a corporate slogan that crumbles under regulatory pressure.

Note: Due to the political or social nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the discussion thread is located in our Political News forum. All forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts.

Article Link: Could Apple Pull iCloud Services From the UK Market?
Pull all services from UK ….iPhones, MacBookPros, iMacs, Studios, iPads…..Go Nuclear to protect Privacy. Millions of $1-$5,000 devices bricked will cause the British citizens to rise up and speak out to restore Privacy in Great Britain and worldwide.
 
Unfortunately in the UK and I am British (and ashamed of these antics) these millions won't be up in arms.
Now take away their FaceBook, TikTok and Instagram dripfeeds and you will have a revolution.
If their expensive phones, laptops, computers, iPads can no longer run native Apple software, and share personal content, then they might wake up 🥹
 
Thing is no one is able to have a sensible conversation about the impact of encrypted communications on society. I can fully understand privacy but if you're trying to investigate and shut down criminal operations like drug cartels and child sexual abuse gangs which is enabled by these protections what exactly do you suggest?
The historical fascist lie is the Nanny State trope “it’s for your safety” when law enforcement has no problem getting your access through a court order. It’s really all about CONTROL of the population including through finances and health care. Notice how Canada stopped a peaceful and legal protest by shutting down protestors bank accounts? Overweight? Government will limit purchases at the grocery store. Comments against govt. on X? Your kids will be denied entrance to college, preschool, or private academies. Sick? Insurance Co will deny coverage….all private info they can’t get to now w/o legal reason.
 
One of the openly stated goals of the Nazi Party as the war progressed was to eliminate and replace Christianity altogether, since they felt it held people back from being "the wolf" that Nazism wanted to bring out in people.
"My favorite principle is how you deal with not knowing." - Ray Dalio

"The wolf who does not know what he is doing is a sheep." - avz, MacRumors 2025
 
I think the news have been heavily distorted by how Apple framed it and newspapers reported it.
Their "completr access" goes through regulations, which just means it ain't complete.
Regulations?
Have you missed the part where these orders (technical capability notices) are secret?
Regulations that people and society are supposed not to even know about?

“the IPA makes it a criminal offense to reveal that the government even made the demand.”

How do we know it goes through proper regulations and due process, when everything is kept secret from us?
 
The secrecy requirement is the strange part. Like wanting to bypass parliaments, the public and the entire legal system.
If there is a government need to hack somebody's account a judge must have agreed before. This is how it is required by law and how it should remain.
 
The historical fascist lie is the Nanny State trope “it’s for your safety” when law enforcement has no problem getting your access through a court order. It’s really all about CONTROL of the population including through finances and health care. Notice how Canada stopped a peaceful and legal protest by shutting down protestors bank accounts? Overweight? Government will limit purchases at the grocery store. Comments against govt. on X? Your kids will be denied entrance to college, preschool, or private academies. Sick? Insurance Co will deny coverage….all private info they can’t get to now w/o legal reason.
DOGE in the US: hold my beer.
 
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I am not surprised the UK is doing this, with their love for extremely authorization control over their lives, but I am surprised the EU didn’t beat them them to it. I despise all of their love for governmental control. Keep your **** over there, and stop trying to impose it on us. we fought a war over this a couple hundred years ago and we kicked your a$$. Don’t make us do it again.
 
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How would this request end up if going to court? Say a constitutional court or even higher international organisations? Who would need to initiate this?

Back in the "leaks"-days (see above) it had been claimed that in the US some "80 year old" (or similar)-Capitol-committee members with no clue about modern data use and digital things rubber stamp all those extra sniffing law requests in the US that were kept a secret as well, at least back then. AFAIK this is why PGP was claimed having been ordered to install a backdoor.
Can all this be constitutional?
 
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Interesting this essentially highlights the problem with apple having a single backup options.
Also note this applies to all macs using iCloud too!

I've nothing to hide but it will be abused which could be very bad in large company environments also they could use this to spy on Trump & Musk in the US.

Would want to see the data on how many criminals & terroists use iPhones etc
 
Please refrain from using words that you don’t understand.

I’ve got a friend who keeps telling me that the current government is communist too, so which is it?! (I’m not actually asking)

Fascism and communism aren’t that different in practice…so it seems pretty understandable that people get them confused...

Both involve a complete loss of individual rights and living under a controlling, capricious government that has no regard for the wellbeing or safety of its citizens.

Use whatever word you want. It is all subjugation.
 
Interesting this essentially highlights the problem with apple having a single backup options.
Also note this applies to all macs using iCloud too!

This is right where my thought went as well

The real issue is that we don't have the option to choose whatever provider we want as the integrated solution
 
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This is right where my thought went as well

The real issue is that we don't have the option to choose whatever provider we want as the integrated solution

Wouldn’t any of those providers also be subject to UK law? I guess I am not seeing how having multiple cloud based backup services would help here?

I am also not convinced that we don’t have multiple providers already? Doesn’t DropBox, OneDrive, NextCloud, etc. all work on macOS and iOS?
 
Doesn’t DropBox, OneDrive, NextCloud, etc. all work on macOS and iOS?

Not in the same system integrated way iCloud is "blessed" with

Wouldn’t any of those providers also be subject to UK law? I guess I am not seeing how having multiple cloud based backup services would help here?

Perhaps. This is a specific request targeted at Apple, it's unclear how things might change (or not at all) if there were multiple offerings in the space.

We should have the choice no matter what though, as it also makes it more challenging for a jurisdiction to track down and pressure all the possible entities a customer could be engaging with
 
I think if this happens (it might have already happened, as the law stops apple from telling us.....*cough, 1985....*cough) I might finally switch to a graphene or calyx device. Ive been pondering this for general internet security for a year or so, but its so difficult to move to android let alone a modded one...I was ready to trade in my iPhone 15 for the SE, so lower monthly costs, but Im now not sure if I can stay with apple if this law presses ahead.

For me, you phone is your banking now, its your emails. In the UK they want everyone on tap and go payments, hughstreet banks have gone, most place wont even take cash anymore, yet we're now looking at back doors into the device that does your banking. It is not to just find the "bad apples" (pardon the pun), it will be a blanket looking at everyone. My feeling is we used to be targeting and watching then bad ones, and yeah, in that case once they have gone through the proper channels a criminals phone should be got into, but I think the sec services in the UK are just lazy now, its just easier to watch everyone. There was a video I saw recently on YT saying this is all done under "saving children", which yes, of course we want, but one thing I thought. All then scanning of your photo library WILL be done by AI. Will Ai understand bad stuff from old photos of bathing your first born? I wouldn't trust it to. Then suddenly you're on a list.
 
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