Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Comfortably Numb

macrumors regular
Original poster
Remember the absolutely horrible OS X Leopard? And what Snow Leopard, heralded by many as the best OS X release ever, did to it?

The more I read about Golden Gate, the more I have to think of it as the Snow Leopard of Tahoe. And I am not even talking about UI refinements or the AI crap. It's been a really long time since I have seen such a long and exhaustive list of under the hood changes to the OS. They touched almost every part of it, some of it in really significant and meaningful ways. At the same time, there are very few new user-facing features. Just like that old white Leopard.

Of course it has to prove itself first, but this sounds like Snow Leopard 2.0 to me.
 
Like with Snow Leopard, Apple is leaving an entire architecture class of Macs on an unfinished version of MacOS. So it seems like that's the vibe they're going for, and I wouldn't say it's a good thing...
 
I watched this video (
) and the guy casually points out numerous quirks/bugs. So right now, as of the beta, i'd say "no, it is not Snow Leopard." Mebbe those bugs will be quashed by the time the actual release comes outs.
 
Leopard was a really thoughtful release when it came to changing the UI from Panther/Tiger. Golden Gate is good for beta 1, but it has a long way to go before it has the system-wide UI polish that Snow Leopard had. Apple needs to put more thought into the UI and decide whether it actually wants 3D and depth or just a smattering of 3D elements alongside the flat Big Sur-style elements.
 
No. GG is objectively better in a number of ways, but it is not a Snow Leopard level of improvement/polish over the previous iteration. I think Apple is putting the smallest necessary level of thought into addressing the loudest complaints about the Tahoe UI, but the vast majority of effort is going into getting Siri ready for prime time (after years of failed promises). It's not really comparable.
 
Not a chance... Get rid of the AI components, then it may be considered Snowy...
What?.... Steve was way ahead of his time on this. He embarrassed the bought of an AI company that created Siri. Ofc he would have ordered to implement AI features to the os, way earlier and way more successfully. Apple would be one of the leaders today, not a company making excuses. A stable os like Snow Leopard doesn't mean no AI capabilities.

 
No, that is highly unlikely to happen. Even with the UI changes in GG, there are still things that are a looong way from being close to fixed. Just look at System Preferences. It is a system lacking a LOT of polish.

And with the amount of bugs in the system, I don't think they can actually manage to fix them all, before they want to release the next version. Just see how we got 26.5 juuuust before 27 was announced, and the system is a huge mess.
 
I don't think Leopard deserves the flack it has gotten in this thread.

Let me just state that Leopard's biggest fault is that it was the first version of OS X to run slower than it's predecessor, Tiger. Plus if you were reliant upon using the Classic environment to use Mac OS 9 apps, that was axed with Leopard as well. MobileMe also sucked but I consider that not so much of an OS problem as it was a 'services' problem.

That being said, it is my OS of choice for my PowerPC Macs that I use. Even after 19 years of use it still feels fresh and modern. Heck it introduced many things like Quick Look, Spaces, Time Machine, Smart Folders. I prefer how Leopard handles Spaces and Expose vs any version of Mission Control. It's window chrome also suits my tastes better as it's neither too light nor too dark as is the case with most modern OSes are. Though it runs slower than Tiger on my systems, the performance penalty is really negligible especially since all my PowerPC macs now have SSD's. If anything they now run as fast or faster than Tiger just on that factor alone.

There were a whole class of applications that were written to take advantages of the changes in Leopard vs that of Tiger. Bento is one prominent example that comes to mind. IMHO much of the greatest Mac software was written between 2007-2009. One of the reasons I still have and use PPC macs is so I can run software like iWork 09, iLife 09, Apeture, Pixelmator 1.5, Logic 8 Pro, Final Cut Studio 2, Bento, iTunes, Scrivener 2, et. al. Sure I can use their modern equivalents on my Apple Silicon macs, but I enjoy the older apps more, and I'm not bogged down with constant notifications and distractions like I am in more modern OS environments.

Never once in my 19 years of using Leopard did I ever feel it was unfinished. By the time the point updates reached version 10.5.8, Leopard had significantly closed what performance gap remained between it and Tiger. Suffice it to say, that in my experience as someone who still uses Leopard, it is a great OS. Snow Leopard optimized it, made some minor UI tweaks, and introduced new core technologies for the future, but Snow Leopard wasn't a correction of mistakes of Leopard, nor a needed reversion of poorly thought out changes. Though I was miffed at the time of PowerPCs not getting an official release of Snow Leopard, in hind sight it makes sense.

AI features aside, I view Golden Gate as a much needed correction for the many flawed UI changes made in Tahoe. To me, Tahoe's UI issues, plus it's lack of Firewire support and inability to connect to AFP shares ended up making it a non-starter for me. I have put GG in its own volume and so far it seems like my major usability complaints have been largely addressed. It is also more performant than Tahoe. I will probably keep a dual-boot setup of GG plus Sequioa.
 
I think some here are missing the point. It's not about UI polish or AI features, it's about what GG is changing under the hood. All those non-user-facing things, like a revamped Spotlight index architecture (to name one example).

Remember Grand Central Dispatch (aka libdispatch) in Snow Leopard? That's what I am talking about.

Also, my post didn't pertain to the current state of GG, which is just out as the first beta. Of course it is going to be rough around the edges. I meant the general approach Apple has taken to this OS release.
 
I think some here are missing the point. It's not about UI polish or AI features, it's about what GG is changing under the hood. All those non-user-facing things, like a revamped Spotlight index architecture (to name one example).

Remember Grand Central Dispatch (aka libdispatch) in Snow Leopard? That's what I am talking about.

Also, my post didn't pertain to the current state of GG, which is just out as the first beta. Of course it is going to be rough around the edges. I meant the general approach Apple has taken to this OS release.
Personally, it stuns me how many times I hear people complaining about the UI.

On the other hand, if the UI is the biggest complaint, it surely means people are having no difficulty getting their work done. When I’m working with my Mac, the UI basically disappears. The only things which annoy me are the small-ish “hit zones” for grabbing windows for resizing.

Oh, and the inability to select which fonts appear in my font menus.
 
Last edited:
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.