All iPads Could OS X run natively on iPad?

[gnasher729]

So, honest question. Why with such an impressive hardware gauntlet and now 128gb available storage, is it not possible to run OS X natively on current 4th gen iPads? The whole apple profitability argument aside- Is there something missing that limits this or is there jus a complete architectural flaw to doin this? Again, honest, albeit, naive question but why?

There's no technical problem. No reason why MacOS X couldn't be recompiled for ARM, and it would work just fine. Let's say one year work for one developer to fix all the problems that would crop up. And it didn't need a new iPad 4; that would have worked just fine on an iPad 1. MacOS X has run on Macs with significantly lower specs than an iPad 1. Remember it is over ten years old.

The question is whether this would have any value to customer. The answer: No, it wouldn't. Microsoft is trying this, and they are going to fail.

 

[iThinkergoiMac]

iOS shares the kernel and some of the system libraries. It is in no way OS X based though.

You just enumerated exactly how it is based on OS X. Those items wouldn't exist without OS X. They share more similarities than that, anyway.

 

[darngooddesign]

http://chameleonproject.org/

 

[SnowLeopard2008]

There's no technical problem. No reason why MacOS X couldn't be recompiled for ARM, and it would work just fine. Let's say one year work for one developer to fix all the problems that would crop up. And it didn't need a new iPad 4; that would have worked just fine on an iPad 1. MacOS X has run on Macs with significantly lower specs than an iPad 1. Remember it is over ten years old.

The question is whether this would have any value to customer. The answer: No, it wouldn't. Microsoft is trying this, and they are going to fail.

Agreed. Surface is a joke. And Windows RT is a joke as well.

 

[old-wiz]

Probably the entire OS X has been already compiled for ARM years ago like it was being compiled for Intel all those years under wraps.

Running osx on an iPad would require a lot more than simply recompiling osx for ARM. There would be interface issues, firmware to be written, odd compiler issues to be tracked down, etc.

 

[MisterKeeks]

Well Leopard requires an 867Mhz Processor and 512MB of RAM to run so maybe that'd run. No idea of the kind of performance you'd see.

But on PowerPC/Intel. Not ARM.

----------

But technically, the iPads performance approaches PowerMac G5 territory.

In web usage perhaps. In other uses, no. My 2.7 G5 benches a comfortable 600 points more than the iPad 4. A Quad G5 benches at 1,600 more.

4GB standard is a recent 'change' for Apple. Just a year back, 2GB was offered on the MBA--and in 2009, 1GB was standard. I'm not arguing that it is or isn't possible...but you point out recent changes to OSx hardware. The days of running Leopard and even Snow Leopard were very doable with 1GB or RAM. Not so sure about the ARM processing...but as mentioned, in pure benchmarking, the CPU and GPU speeds are close to if not an even parity with the G5 processors....some of which are still being used to run OSx.

I use my faster G5 daily. In fact, I'm typing on it now. As for benchmarking, I don't know which ARM processor you are referring to, but the iPad 4 does bench below the G5, as I mentioned above. GPU speeds can vary, but there are some powerful 512MB cards available.
But even though they run at similar speeds, the architecture is completely different, which is typically the limiting factor.

 

[Dr McKay]

But on PowerPC/Intel. Not ARM

I know it won't run on ARM. We've been speaking hypothetically.

 

[AQUADock]

I know it won't run on ARM. We've been speaking hypothetically.

So what is the point of saying it will run on those specs on one kind of architecture if we are taking about it running on a different architecture? It runs on a 867MHz PowerPC chip but in may need a quad core 2.0GHz ARM chip to perform at the same level.

 

[Dr McKay]

So what is the point of saying it will run on those specs on one kind of architecture if we are taking about it running on a different architecture? It runs on a 867MHz PowerPC chip but in may need a quad core 2.0GHz ARM chip to perform at the same level.

There's no point in discussing it, just doing it out of internest. I know an ARM chip won't reach the level of power as a PPC Chip, hence why I said "I don't know what kind of performance you'd get".

I'm speculating as to whether the iPad 4 could run OS X, I personally think it could, if a Tegra 3 can run Windows RT and the Tegra gets beaten by the iPad processor in benchmarks, it should work.

 

[AQUADock]

There's no point in discussing it, just doing it out of internest. I know an ARM chip won't reach the level of power as a PPC Chip, hence why I said "I don't know what kind of performance you'd get".

I'm speculating as to whether the iPad 4 could run OS X, I personally think it could, if a Tegra 3 can run Windows RT and the Tegra gets beaten by the iPad processor in benchmarks, it should work.

I agree it's pointless as I doubt that apple will ever do it but there is some parts of OS X that is compiled for ARM so I guess apple is seeing it as a possibility.

 

[Dr McKay]

I agree it's pointless as I doubt that apple will ever do it but there is some parts of OS X that is compiled for ARM so I guess apple is seeing it as a possibility.

Just because things are pointless doesn't mean they aren't interesting to discuss, Say OS X was completely ARM compatible, do you feel the iPad 4could run OS X?

It's why I mentioned Leopard, because if the requirements listed were rather low, I feel the ARM chip on the iPad would be capable of powering it.

 

[Abazigal]

So, honest question. Why with such an impressive hardware gauntlet and now 128gb available storage, is it not possible to run OS X natively on current 4th gen iPads? The whole apple profitability argument aside- Is there something missing that limits this or is there jus a complete architectural flaw to doin this? Again, honest, albeit, naive question but why?

The 1gb of ram on the ipad somehow feels slower than 1gb of ram on a normal netbook. When I am surfing sites like cnet, comments are slow to load, or even fail to load altogether. And this is the only page in the browser.

I read somewhere that the ipad doesn't allow paging (or something to that effect). I think that it is these sort of hardware restrictions that make running a full blown OS still a pipe dream, even if the ipad could somehow be hacked to run windows or OSX.

 

[TheGreenBastard]

ARM processors, or rather the breed of ARM processors that is used in phones or tablets, are not that great at running multiple programs at once. But technically, the iPads performance approaches PowerMac G5 territory.

Other than that, Apple most definitively won't put a portable Mac for $499 in your hands, sorry. Nor does Microsoft for that matter, and they even have the desktop running on the Surface — yet, no third-party apps, just Office.

Your post is amusing.

 

[darngooddesign]

If I had to guess, I'd say the iPad4 is equivilent to an old mid-level iBook G3.

 

[BaldiMac]

If I had to guess, I'd say the iPad4 is equivilent to an old mid-level iBook G3.

Geekbench results have an iPad 4 scoring similarly to a PowerMac G5 from Jun 2004.

Obviously, cross platform results are suspect, but it's an interesting frame of reference.

 

[ghellquist]

The question has several answers depending on how you interpret the question.

1) No, I cannot do it. It would take skills I do not have.

2) It might be possible for a really good "jailbreaker" to move some version of OSX onto the iPad. It would be a really, really large effort though, as the CPU-s are from quite different families (intel vs arm). This means that you need to disassembly every program, find out what every instruction does and then create a different set of instructions working on the ARM instead. Add that you need to write new low level device drivers, not and easy proposition. Something similar, but actually simpler, was done in the emulator allowing you to run old power-pc code on the inte macs. My guess -- very unlikely on the brink of cannot happen.

3) Could Apple, having the source code, recompile OSX and run in on the iPad? It might be possible for almost everything. It will take a bit of work to handle the low-level hardware drivers. The rest probably is rather easy o recompile, but there are always problems here and there. Still, some programs might not run due to limited amount of ram and such. But would they do it? Hardly! What is the point of spreading what will be perceived as really bloated and slow and unuseable? My guess -- will not happen.

There is, just perhaps, a possibility. It might happen that Apple decides to create and iPad with something similar to a Mac Air inside. ? . Name it iPad and sell it with OS X installed. Would that qualify as a yes?

// Gunnar

 

[boneskid1]

I would not count on it happening any time soon unless some devs get down to buisness. but if you think there really isnt a need for touch input on os x, imagine all the applications that would have to be re-mapped just so they would work on the os x based ipad, alot of work.

however i could see apple going into the arm based ultraportables (rMbp, Mba), at the same time though it would (from a consumer standpoint) like the powerpc to intel change all over again the "Old" intel cpus will slowly get less support from both devs and apple themselves.

but then again it is apple and no matter what it is consumers will still buy it.
Boneskid1

 

[darngooddesign]

A better question is what you would do with it. Assuming they port the OS, so what. You end up with a Windows 8 vs RT issue. You'd have OSX and iLife, and then you couldn't run any regular OSX software. You'd need to have ARM-specific software written, and it probably wouldn't any more robust than things like Photoshop Touch.

 

[SpyderBite]

In the end, if this were available, many people who normally would have bought a Mac and an iPad would probably just by one or the other. I'm talking common consumer.. Not the enthusiasts. The meat and potatoes of the Apple ecosystem becomes a pot pie.

 

[gnasher729]

So what is the point of saying it will run on those specs on one kind of architecture if we are taking about it running on a different architecture? It runs on a 867MHz PowerPC chip but in may need a quad core 2.0GHz ARM chip to perform at the same level.

1. ARM chips are bloody fast. It's same time ago that I benchmarked it with actual code, and some code that really needed to run fast on a 200 MHz ARM ran the same speed as an 800 MHz Pentium 4 (I said it was some time ago). I'd say ARM at least matches PowerPC at the same clock speed.

2. ARM has huge advances in compiler technology that weren't present on PowerPC. For example, ARM has the "Modern Runtime" for Objective-C that you get on 64 bit x86, but not on 32 bit. It has the new Clang C++ library that is a lot more efficient than the gcc library or whatever old library you would have on PowerPC.

 

[AQUADock]

1. ARM chips are bloody fast. It's same time ago that I benchmarked it with actual code, and some code that really needed to run fast on a 200 MHz ARM ran the same speed as an 800 MHz Pentium 4 (I said it was some time ago). I'd say ARM at least matches PowerPC at the same clock speed.

2. ARM has huge advances in compiler technology that weren't present on PowerPC. For example, ARM has the "Modern Runtime" for Objective-C that you get on 64 bit x86, but not on 32 bit. It has the new Clang C++ library that is a lot more efficient than the gcc library or whatever old library you would have on PowerPC.

That settles it then the questions when or if we will ever see OS X running on a tablet.

 

[old-wiz]

2) It might be possible for a really good "jailbreaker" to move some version of OSX onto the iPad. It would be a really, really large effort though, as the CPU-s are from quite different families (intel vs arm). This means that you need to disassembly every program, find out what every instruction does and then create a different set of instructions working on the ARM instead. Add that you need to write new low level device drivers, not and easy proposition. Something similar, but actually simpler, was done in the emulator allowing you to run old power-pc code on the inte macs. My guess -- very unlikely on the brink of cannot happen.
// Gunnar

Even attempting this would bring the Apple legal team to your door, lawsuits in hand. Have you ever tried to disassemble compiled code and turn it back into source code? It is in no way easy.

the PPC emulator was a lot easier - Apple included hooks in the OS to provide assistance. Apple had the source code, knew the oddities of the CPU, and it was not that big a deal.

 

[iThinkergoiMac]

The 1gb of ram on the ipad somehow feels slower than 1gb of ram on a normal netbook. When I am surfing sites like cnet, comments are slow to load, or even fail to load altogether. And this is the only page in the browser.

How are you making this determination? What about the 1 GB RAM in the iPad feels slower than a notebook with 1 GB RAM? As an aside, any notebook that only has 1 GB RAM that I've ever used feels generally slower than my iPad in terms of response to input.

I read somewhere that the ipad doesn't allow paging (or something to that effect). I think that it is these sort of hardware restrictions that make running a full blown OS still a pipe dream, even if the ipad could somehow be hacked to run windows or OSX.

Yes, iOS doesn't use paging or virtual memory (yes, yes, for you technical people it does use a form of virtual memory, but not stored in a paging file like any modern desktop OS). It's not a hardware limitation so far as I know, though, just an OS limitation. The main problem with using it is that there isn't a whole lot of extra storage space to be had to use for a paging file.

I don't WANT to have OS X on my iPad. The entire OS is designed around using a mouse, a touchscreen won't be very efficient with OS X. That being said, the geek in me would be excited to see it happen and I might even install it, but it would never become my primary OS on my iPad.

 

[vigilant]

I'm sure they have it compiled already in R&D. Is it useable and anything that anyone would want to use? No. I think there is probably enough to put them 12-18 months away from doing it in a serious way if they decided to dedicate the resources towards it.

I hear what all of you are saying about ARM being slower then them x86, and so on and so forth. I think what most people fail to realize is that consumer computing is mostly single tasking computing done in a web browser.

The "core" of iOS is based on OSX. They aren't identical, but they are definitely similar.

If you look at a modern data center, and what they use, they have a bunch of hardware running at low CPU utilization, or they are virtualizing the hell out of it using the unused hardware resources. It's not a good or bad thing. It just is. Memory will become less of an issue.

 

[chiefpavvy]

If you want to see OS X on ARM, you'll need to get in to Cupertino's R&D lab. I have zero doubt they have it running there.

And it is probable we'll see it one day. Not yet though.